Focal Testing of Kubuntu 20.04 LTS

[Don B. Cilly]

What's the existential issue everyone has with snaps? Is it the extra processes or feeling like it's not controllable or disk space or what

Ahem. I think I linked this at least three times in this tread.
With mentions of filesystem clogging and pathetic boot times.
I also guess no-one bothered to read it (the first post in the thread is enough.)

I have nothing against the idea of self-contained or portable apps. I have no problems with appimages. I have no experience of flatpaks.
The idea of snaps in fine... up to a point.
The implementation is absolutely horrible.

[WWDERW]

The implementation is absolutely horrible.

Ironically, this is the thing that can kill great ideas, is how that idea is implemented.

To my knowledge flatpaks are like snaps, just backed by different entities. There may be nuanced differences between the two, but just a cursory looksee, that's the biggest that I am getting.

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, if they don't splash
loop99 7:99 0 888.4M 1 loop /snap/core/7169
all over the filesystem and don't add two seconds at boot each... they're not as bad :·(

[kubicle]

As far as the technical issues are concerned, this one sums up some of them quite nicely:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comm..._increasingly/

[GreyGeek]

... Kubuntu, AFAIK, does not install snaps by default, but many gnome apps installed in ubuntu by default are already snaps.

When I installed the 20.04 beta ISO it included snapd by default. Maybe it will be removed by the time it goes gold.
Regardless, it is an easy move to uninstall snapd & chromium-browser.

But, even after doing that I find that after rebooting mount points for chromium-browser continue to be mounted.

snap-chromium-986.mount                                       enabled        
snap-core18-1650.mount                                           enabled        
snap-gtk\x2dcommon\x2dthemes-1440.mount    enabled

so I disabled them as well:

jerry@Aspire-V3-771:~[B]$ systemctl disable snap-chromium-986.mount [/B]
Removed /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-chromium-986.mount.
jerry@Aspire-V3-771:~[B]$ systemctl disable snap-core18-1650.mount [/B]
Removed /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-core18-1650.mount.
jerry@Aspire-V3-771:~[B]$ systemctl disable snap-gtk\\x2dcommon\\x2dthemes-1440.mount[/B] 
Removed /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/snap-gtk\x2dcommon\x2dthemes-1440.mount.
jerry@Aspire-V3-771:~$

[NoWorries]

As far as the technical issues are concerned, this one sums up some of them quite nicely:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comm..._increasingly/

This is a very detailed reference which was made 11 months ago and Canonical have since announced a 6 times speed up improvement at: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/03/...een-identified.

The snapd version with the improvements is from 2.36.2. The version of snapd that I did the speed test in my post #125 was 2.43, so this is definitely the latest version which is still slow. If this is 6 time faster, the older versions must have been abominably slow.

I should mention that the file I was doing the test on was an impress odp file that had 59 slides with 3 videos. The odp file size was 146.6 MiB. I considered this to be a realistic real world test of snap performance which was to say the least, unimpressive.

[GreyGeek]

Anyone running Kubuntu 20.04 notice that the "Lock Widgets" option in the right mouse desktop context menu is missing? Oversight or permanent?

[chimak111]

Anyone running Kubuntu 20.04 notice that the "Lock Widgets" option in the right mouse desktop context menu is missing? Oversight or permanent?

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...ion-in-5-17-90 ?

[kubicle]

When I installed the 20.04 beta ISO it included snapd by default. Maybe it will be removed by the time it goes gold.

Yes, the backend systems for both snaps and flatpaks are installed (this includes snapd), so one can install snaps or flatpaks if one wants to (like the chromium-browser). I meant that the software installed by default on kubuntu are regular debs and no snaps (and snapd can be purged without removing anything essential).

I considered this to be a realistic real world test of snap performance which was to say the least, unimpressive.

They will always be resource hogs, that's sort of built in to the design, isolated libraries and all. Slower start, bigger memory footprint, more disk space etc. But that just one of the technical problems that exist. And besides all the technical problems, it's never going to reach it's goal as an universal solution, it can't and won't happen under Canonical's CLA. Flatpak a least has a chance for that, as it's development model is more inclusive. Of course neither should IMO replace regular debs (it's not broken, despite some claims that suggest that) but there is a niche for contained software packages as an option (but only as an option).

[kubicle]

Anyone running Kubuntu 20.04 notice that the "Lock Widgets" option in the right mouse desktop context menu is missing? Oversight or permanent?

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...ion-in-5-17-90 ?

This explains the changes to the plasma editing modes in plasma 5.18 (it's linked on the thread that chimak posted, but a bit buried):
https://pointieststick.com/2019/10/2...-noble-cashew/

[WWDERW]

Anyone running Kubuntu 20.04 notice that the "Lock Widgets" option in the right mouse desktop context menu is missing? Oversight or permanent?

I just checked this morning. It seems to be under "customized layout". Click that, it's unlocked and ready to be customized. Get out of that and everything is locked back up. I never noticed that as it wasn't there when I first install 20.04 and I already had my layout setup. I must say, just from a cursory look, I actually like the new way. That extra step always tripped me up doing it the old way.

[kubicle]

I actually like the new way

It's definitely a usability improvement. You should also be able to enter the "edit mode" by long-clicking the the desktop (which helps with touch screens).

[GreyGeek]

I just checked this morning. It seems to be under "customized layout". Click that, it's unlocked and ready to be customized. Get out of that and everything is locked back up. I never noticed that as it wasn't there when I first install 20.04 and I already had my layout setup. I must say, just from a cursory look, I actually like the new way. That extra step always tripped me up doing it the old way.

I saw that "Customized Layout" and looked at it but it never indicated to me that it automatically did an "Unlock WIdget" command, since I can right-mouse on the panel and a " + Add Widget" option is available without going throught the "Customize Layout".

I looked in System Settings for an administrator tool to unlock or lock widgets and didn't find any. I also did "kcmshell5 --list" to see if any plasma5 dialog was available that offered that ability. No joy.

So, to me, the panel looks like it is in a continuous state of edit mode when it comes to widgets and panel settings, because "add widgets", "Edit Panel" and "Add Panel" are always active, which wasn't the case when widgets were locked. IF there is a "Lock Widgets" option available to the user the developers have done bang-up job of hiding it. One could almost say "A windowish" job.

[kubicle]

I looked in System Settings for an administrator tool to unlock or lock widgets and didn't find any. I also did "kcmshell5 --list" to see if any plasma5 dialog was available that offered that ability. No joy.

The "locked" mode is not exposed anywhere in the gui because it is not really necessary any more, it was basically there because in the first iterations of plasma it was relatively easy to accidentally delete widgets ("where in the hell did my task manager disappear from my panel?"), much harder to do accidentally in later versions...and the setting wasn't really locked anyhow, since anyone could unlock with a few clicks. As I understand, you can still set a truly "locked" mode, or immutability, in the config files, but that's sort of for the rare kiosk-mode set up (and not really useful for common use cases of plasma).

So, to me, the panel looks like it is in a continuous state of edit mode when it comes to widgets and panel settings, because "add widgets", "Edit Panel" and "Add Panel" are always active, which wasn't the case when widgets were locked. IF there is a "Lock Widgets" option available to the user the developers have done bang-up job of hiding it. One could almost say "A windowish" job.

In 5.18 there are basically two modes: "Normal mode" (You can change some things, basically replaces the old "locked" mode, but you can still perform some non-destructive edits) and "Edit mode" (You can change everything) which I think improves the workflow of interacting with your desktop (although my opinion is based only on screenshots/casts, as I have not tested/used the 5.18 yet)

[GreyGeek]

Snapd, Flatpak and AppImage

Since I have disabled snapd and its associated services, uninstalled the chromium-browser (replacing it with a binary version from the web) and unmounted the three squashfs mount points that the chromium-browser uses (but the binary version does not), I decided to look into the state of AppImage, my favorite way to install apps, and to see what Flatpak offered.

For AppImageHub, it didn't look good. Many of the AppImage packages haven't been updated in a year or more.

I did find linux-apps.com which offers around 600 AppImages, if you set the drop down combo box to display them. Most of them are a month or two old and contain images like LBRY, FireFox, LibreOffice (6.3.4.2), and other goodies. Linux-apps.com also displays 9 Flatpak packages, a meager offering, around 80 deb packages, about 95 source-code packages, and about 70 Windows binaries.

The best way to get AppImages is to go to the developer's website and see if they offer an AppImage, like LibreOffice does. But, demonstrating the decline in AppImage's fortunes, Open Broadcaster Studio offered an AppImage in July of 2017 and hasn't updated it since.

So, I decided to look at Flatpack. It was in the Kubuntu repository for 20.04. I ran
sudo apt-cache depends snapd

and obtained the following listing of programs that depend on snapd being installed on your system:

[B]jerry@Aspire-V3-771:~$ sudo apt-cache rdepends snapd[/B]
snapd
Reverse Depends:
  snap-confine
  ubuntu-core-snapd-units
  ubuntu-snappy-cli
  ubuntu-snappy
  ubuntu-core-launcher
  snapd-xdg-open
[COLOR=#ff0000]  python3-ubuntu-image[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  xubuntu-desktop[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  xubuntu-core[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  vanilla-gnome-desktop[/COLOR]
  ubuntustudio-desktop-core
  ubuntustudio-desktop
  ubuntukylin-desktop
  ubuntu-unity-desktop
  ubuntu-snappy-cli
  ubuntu-snappy
  ubuntu-mate-desktop
  ubuntu-mate-core
  ubuntu-core-launcher
  ubuntu-budgie-desktop
  snapd-xdg-open
  snapcraft
  snap-confine
  qml-module-snapd
[COLOR=#ff0000][B]  plasma-discover-backend-snap[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  lxd[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  lubuntu-desktop[/COLOR]
  libsnapd-qt1
[B][COLOR=#ff0000]  kubuntu-desktop[/COLOR][/B]
  cyphesis-cpp
[B]  chromium-browser[/B]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  ubuntu-server[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  ubuntu-desktop-minimal[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]  ubuntu-desktop[/COLOR]
  ubuntu-core-snapd-units
  livecd-rootfs
  command-not-found
  libsnapd-glib1
  gnome-software-plugin-snap

Installing flatpak from the repository will not re-install snapd. But instead, I downloaded a tar file from the web and added a remote:
sudo flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo
I can also install flatpaks from https://flathub.org/home

Installing flatpak was a total pain. Way too complicated. AppImages does not require any process to be running in the background at all, much less 100% of the time.

It made me stop and think. Why is snapd running all the time when one isn't constantly installing or removing apps all the time? Metering and monitoring. Nothing else makes sense.

I decided that I didn't care about Google, the NSA, CIA, or Homeland security sticking their nose in my business (how could I stop them even if I wanted to? They certainly no longer honor the Bill of Rights.) So, I don't care about snap, either. I removed flatpak and its remote, and I reinstalled snapd and rebooted. Then I installed the repository version of chromium-browser.