Originally posted by dibl
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Newegg has Samsung 840 PRO 256 GB for $300 and free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIAADF3ZD3050
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Originally posted by dibl View PostRight you are! My OCZ PCI-e SSD is not recognized by a number of motherboards, including both of the Asus boards that I've mounted it on, as a bootable device. Therefore it has always been necessary to have another bootable drive of some kind carry the /boot partition. My first bright idea was a small, cheap Kingston SATA interface SSD -- if I remember it was only 16 GB. What a disappointing day it was when that one died and I couldn't boot my system. I don't think it lasted more than two years, and I even used ext2 for the filesystem to preclude journalling on it. Since then, /boot has been on a partition on a WD hdd, which I expect will live longer than I do.SSDs for sale! Since "Pre-fail" and "Old Age" indicators for smartd mean absolutely nothing, the only thing one could count on is the sector reallocation error count. However, I doubt seriously that the vendor would RMA the used drive if it has a couple thousand reallocation errors because of "as is" on used equipment.
IF I were independently wealthy, or a recent Powerball winner, I'd buy a brand new monster gaming machine with 1TB SSDs and a couple 1TB Samsung 840 Pro SSD's and use Btrfs to send & receive incremental updates to the second SSD. Dream, dream, dream.
By the time I get my wife's two medical catastrophes paid off my grandkids will be out of high school and I'll be too senile to remember how to play Minecraft and my 5 year old laptop will probably outlive me too!
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Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post... and I don't trust the cheap ones which, according to a user survey I read, have failure rates above 15% within the first six months. Also, they seem to fail without warning, making daily backups to external drives mandatory.
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The final page of a TechReport about SSD's is here. You were right, oshunluvr, the Samsung 840 pro is the best.
Edit:However, it is outside my budget range and I don't trust the cheap ones which, according to a user survey I read, have failure rates above 15% within the first six months. Also, they seem to fail without warning, making daily backups to external drives mandatory.Last edited by GreyGeek; Aug 11, 2016, 09:53 AM.
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Originally posted by oshunluvr View PostIf I recall, those PCI/SSD boards were rather "spendy" back then. Sounds like you've gotten your money's worth tho...
Code:em: Host: Hibiscus Kernel: 4.7.0-towo.1-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 6.1.1) Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.6.5 Distro: siduction 14.1.0 Indian Summer - kde - (201411230337) Machine: System: ASUS product: All Series Mobo: ASUSTeK model: Z87-WS v: Rev 1.xx Bios: American Megatrends v: 2004 date: 06/05/2014 CPU: Quad core Intel Core i7-4770 (-HT-MCP-) cache: 8192 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 28023 clock speeds: max: 3900 MHz 1: 3400 MHz 2: 3399 MHz 3: 3399 MHz 4: 3400 MHz 5: 3400 MHz 6: 3404 MHz 7: 3405 MHz 8: 3404 MHz Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] bus-ID: 05:00.0 Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1200@59.88hz, 1920x1080@59.94hz GLX Renderer: GeForce GTX 750 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 361.45.18 Direct Rendering: Yes Network: Card-1: Intel I210 Gigabit Network Connection driver: igb v: 5.3.0-k port: d000 bus-ID: 07:00.0 IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Card-2: Intel I210 Gigabit Network Connection driver: igb v: 5.3.0-k port: a000 bus-ID: 0a:00.0 IF: eth1 state: down mac: e0:3f:49:e6:85:c4 Drives: HDD Total Size: 3120.7GB (26.8% used) ID-1: model: OCZ ID-2: model: OCZ ID-3: model: WDC_WD1001FALS ID-4: model: WDC_WD1000DHTZ ID-5: model: WDC_WD1000DHTZ Info: Processes: 273 Uptime: 1:38 Memory: 2052.3/7927.3MB Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 6.1.1 Client: Shell (bash 4.3.461) inxi: 2.3.0
Last edited by dibl; Aug 11, 2016, 03:59 AM.
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Originally posted by oshunluvr View PostSo, I will allow you the final word as we close this discussion <bows gracefully>
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Originally posted by dibl View PostIn late 2010 I built a new desktop system and I wanted an optimum combination of performance and reliability...Teasing of course...
If I recall, those PCI/SSD boards were rather "spendy" back then. Sounds like you've gotten your money's worth tho...
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Originally posted by wizard10000 View PostSorry for not making my point clear. Let me try again
My point is that if your SATA port will only do 300MB/s on paper there's no need to spend *extra* money on a drive that'll run twice that fast. So with a SATA 2 controller if you're choosing between two drives, one that'll do 400MB/sec and one that will do 600MB/sec either will do because both of them will talk faster than your interface and there's no reason to make the extra speed a factor in your purchase decision.
Additionally, my quick Amazon search shows you may benefit from these other factors without actually spending more, thus negating the dollar argument. Two years ago, I might have agreed with you, but the prices of SSDs have fallen faster than (to quote a Kansas old timer) "a stream-lined sewer lid."
I agree with the gist of your comment, but IMO the reality would likely be one would might up with the faster drive anyway because of the other factors. I guess my comparative retort to your point would be: There's no need to buy a slower SSD just because your interface won't do SATA III speeds.
I think we'd both agree that dollar-to-performance is what we're talking about. I just think the "performance" is not interface speed alone, but also longevity, future compatibility, and modern firmware - all of which are often enhanced with a faster speed rated over a slower model - regardless of interface.
I also now think I've flogged this dead horse enough. It appears we are not far apart in opinions, just viewing it from a different angle. So, I will allow you the final word as we close this discussion <bows gracefully>
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My anecdotal contribution to the discussion:
In late 2010 I built a new desktop system and I wanted an optimum combination of performance and reliability. I consulted with oshunluvr who suggested a PCI bus SSD would be really fast and not use SATA connections, giving me good expansion capability for large hdds. In the succeeding 6 years I have replaced the motherboard, the graphics card, and the pair of 1T hdds that I use as a BTRFS data storage system, but I have kept the rest of the system including the SSD. Here it is at almost 6 years of running pretty much continuously. I did not remember that there have been 187 power failures -- not sure what that's all about, but I really like the uncorrected error count, out of almost 10 million. It's an ext4 filesystem running a Linux OS.
Code:smartctl 6.4 2014-10-07 r4002 [x86_64-linux-3.16.0-4-amd64] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-14, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: SandForce Driven SSDs Device Model: OCZ-REVODRIVE Serial Number: OCZ-0C2Z27B5QEE4L0H2 LU WWN Device Id: 5 e83a97 f60df6247 Firmware Version: 1.37 User Capacity: 60,022,480,896 bytes [60.0 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Rotation Rate: Solid State Device Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 6 SATA Version is: SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s Local Time is: Wed Aug 10 15:18:25 2016 EDT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: ( 0) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x7f) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Abort Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x003d) SCT Status supported. SCT Error Recovery Control supported. SCT Feature Control supported. SCT Data Table supported. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 105 099 050 Pre-fail Always - 0/9806339 5 Retired_Block_Count 0x0033 100 100 003 Pre-fail Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours_and_Msec 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 48801h+39m+19.650s 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 651 171 Program_Fail_Count 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 0 172 Erase_Fail_Count 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 0 174 Unexpect_Power_Loss_Ct 0x0030 000 000 000 Old_age Offline - 187 177 Wear_Range_Delta 0x0000 000 000 000 Old_age Offline - 0 181 Program_Fail_Count 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 0 182 Erase_Fail_Count 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 0 187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 030 030 000 Old_age Always - 30 (Min/Max 30/30) 195 ECC_Uncorr_Error_Count 0x001c 105 099 000 Old_age Offline - 0/9806339 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0033 100 100 003 Pre-fail Always - 0 231 SSD_Life_Left 0x0013 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always - 0 233 SandForce_Internal 0x0000 000 000 000 Old_age Offline - 2048 234 SandForce_Internal 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 3008 241 Lifetime_Writes_GiB 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 3008 242 Lifetime_Reads_GiB 0x0032 000 000 000 Old_age Always - 10048
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Originally posted by oshunluvr View PostI disagree as a statement of value. Good luck finding an SATA II SSD that costs much less than a comparable SATA III model. Since all SATA III drives are backward compatible, you're actually recommending buying an older (in terms of production date) than what's current. Using Samsung and Amazon again: The only available SATA I drive is 120GB at $60, their SATA II drives have been discontinued and are only available used, but the 128GB 850 Pro w/10 year warranty is the most expensive option at $90. You can get the EVO model (5 year warranty) for $65.
IMO, the added value of better firmware and more current mem chips would outweigh the additional $5-30 or so you'll spend. Furthermore, in this case - the SSD has a better than average chance of outlasting a 2010 model laptop.
My point is that if your SATA port will only do 300MB/s on paper there's no need to spend *extra* money on a drive that'll run twice that fast. So with a SATA 2 controller if you're choosing between two drives, one that'll do 400MB/sec and one that will do 600MB/sec either will do because both of them will talk faster than your interface and there's no reason to make the extra speed a factor in your purchase decision.
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Originally posted by wizard10000 View PostHighly recommended. The difference in performance is phenomenal.
If I may offer one more piece of advice; I've seen significant improvement in a SATA 1 netbook with an SSD; since on a home computer sustained throughput generally isn't a requirement there's no sense in going for a SATA interface your machine doesn't support. F'rinstance, if your machine can only do 1.5 or 3.0 Gbps SATA there's no advantage to spending extra money an SSD that will talk faster than your interface will
IMO, the added value of better firmware and more current mem chips would outweigh the additional $5-30 or so you'll spend. Furthermore, in this case - the SSD has a better than average chance of outlasting a 2010 model laptop.
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Originally posted by GreyGeek View PostMmmmm ... I've already ordered an identical replace drive, which arrives tomorrow. Also, even though my HD is 640GB the Btrfs scrub checked only 58GB, which is what "show" also shows. I may get a 128GB SSD just to experiment with.
If I may offer one more piece of advice; I've seen significant improvement in a SATA 1 netbook with an SSD; since on a home computer sustained throughput generally isn't a requirement there's no sense in going for a SATA interface your machine doesn't support. F'rinstance, if your machine can only do 1.5 or 3.0 Gbps SATA there's no advantage to spending extra money an SSD that will talk faster than your interface willLast edited by wizard10000; Aug 10, 2016, 09:22 AM.
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Mmmmm ... I've already ordered an identical replace drive, which arrives tomorrow. Also, even though my HD is 640GB the Btrfs scrub checked only 58GB, which is what "show" also shows. I may get a 128GB SSD just to experiment with.
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Originally posted by GreyGeek View PostSo, do you have to reparation them to eliminate the Windows exe's and security junk so you can use Btrfs?
Originally posted by GreyGeek View PostWhat about "trim" to maintain speed. Available under Linux?
Personal preference and completely unnecessary unless you're just into saving all the disk writes you can, but since mine are single-user machines I also set 'noatime' in fstab.
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