Ubuntu turns to crowdfunding

[Frank616]

Oshunluvr:

Those people holding a Note to their ears look dumber than the iPad dorks trying to film the Grand Prix by holding their latest AppHell cult device over their heads.

Well, you'll get used to it. That is where the trend is headed. A lot of big phones are being sold and used because they fill a very definite need. I expect the rumored Note 3 to be a huge success, just as the Note 2 outsold the very successful and groundbreaking Note 1.

Snowhog and I need about 8,000 of you to go to Awesomest Phone Ever dot Com and commit to a phone.

Yeah, I'm thinking very heavily about jumping in myself. However, with 8 days to go, they are woefully short of target. I'm having serious doubts that they can pull this off.

As to corporate sponsors, I saw a report that at least one company has taken one of those $80K packages, but I have forgotten who. (Bloomberg, I think)

I've still got a few days to think this over. However, I still need an answer to what is probably a very basic question: Will this device run 'standard' Linux apps?

This phone is going to have a non-Intel processor, right? Who is porting Libre Office, for instance, to this device? It is my understanding that you can't just run the same source code through a different compiler. Sorry if this is a dumb question. Maybe it is incredibly obvious, and THAT is why I cannot find anything specific on this on the web.

If this phone will run 'off the shelf' Linux productivity apps, then I may buy in. If it all has to be virtualized, then I don't think things are where I want them to be just yet.

Frank.

[SteveRiley]

Yeah, I'm thinking very heavily about jumping in myself. However, with 8 days to go, they are woefully short of target. I'm having serious doubts that they can pull this off.

It was an interesting strategy, and I found myself being both supportive (less) and critical (more). One way to interpret the outcome is that with only about 6,500 (by counting the numbers in the categories, not including "forgot shipping) or 21,000 (as indicated on the Funders tab) "investers," sufficient appetite does not exist for yet another entrant in the mobile device space. This feels like an important lesson to learn here. BTW, why are the two numbers so different? Hm.

As to corporate sponsors, I saw a report that at least one company has taken one of those $80K packages, but I have forgotten who. (Bloomberg, I think)

Yep, Bloomberg.

Will this device run 'standard' Linux apps? This phone is going to have a non-Intel processor, right? Who is porting Libre Office, for instance, to this device? It is my understanding that you can't just run the same source code through a different compiler. If this phone will run 'off the shelf' Linux productivity apps, then I may buy in. If it all has to be virtualized, then I don't think things are where I want them to be just yet.

The specific CPU hasn't been determined yet, but it will be an ARM SoC (system on chip) -- Canonical has put quite a lot of work into their ARM build infrastructure to support the tablet and touch projects. Most software in the repositories has been compiled to run on ARM processors. Code that's specific to x86 processors -- like device drivers and the kernel plus modules -- will need to be rewritten; general applications usually compile without modification.

[Frank616]

Steve:

general applications usually compile without modification.

So, is Libre Office considered to be a 'general application'?

Given its size and complexity, I would think not.

This is the thing that I find yet wanting in Android, and why I only have an Android phone -- no tablet or convertible device. The apps that are available are mostly simple. Fine for note taking and email, but no real meat. I'm not interested in an "all in one" device until it can actually DO everything I want, and that means handling the meatier apps.

Frank.

[SteveRiley]

So, is Libre Office considered to be a 'general application'? Given its size and complexity, I would think not.

Size isn't an indicator of whether source code will cross compile. Consider, for example, the Xen hypervisor: a measly 1.6 MB, yet most definitely coded specifically for each type of CPU architecture. Libre Office is a great big pile of C++ code, but not dependent on any particular kind of hardware, and likely will compile fine. In fact, Debian is doing it: packages are available for ARM-EL and ARM-HF.

[Frank616]

Steve:

Size isn't an indicator of whether source code will cross compile.

Which is why I said size and complexity. In my mind, the larger the program the greater the odds that something will not cross compile. I realize that size alone is not a factor. I would think that it would have to do more with specific hardware calls that may not translate between processors. However, I only have a 'working understanding' of processors, registers, and so on, and certainly not their ins and outs.

Libre Office is a great big pile of C++ code, but not dependent on any particular kind of hardware, and likely will compile fine. In fact, Debian is doing it: packages are available for ARM-EL and ARM-HF.

That is good to know. IIUC, if Debian has it, then it should probably run on Ubuntu, given their close roots. Perhaps not fully integrated into the desktop, but it should run.

Yeah, I'll have to mull it around a bit. I kind of suspect that the Ubuntu Edge is not going to see the light of day anyway. Canonical set its sights a bit too high on this one, methinks. This saddens me, as I would like to see a device like this. But it is not the phone that I would have chosen. I prefer bigger screens and greater resolution. And, quite honestly, I just don't need a device like that at the moment. My Note 1 and my Asus X202e Netbook (which cold boots in less than 30 seconds from the SSD I swapped into it) fill all my mobile needs. And, they fill them better, I think, than a device that I would have to plug into a decidedly non-portable desktop monitor and keyboard.

Now, if this phone had a screen / keyboard device like the original Motorola Atrix, THEN maybe.

Frank.

[SteveRiley]

Which is why I said size and complexity. In my mind, the larger the program the greater the odds that something will not cross compile. I realize that size alone is not a factor. I would think that it would have to do more with specific hardware calls that may not translate between processors.

Then allow me to amend my earlier statement. Neither size nor perceived complexity are indicators of whether source code will cross compile. In comparing Libre Office to Xen, I'd argue that Xen, small as it is, is more complex than all the code in Libre Office. Libre Office constitutes a lot of code, but it really isn't all that complex. A hypervisor, OTOH, while often small, is very complex.

[Frank616]

Steve:

Then allow me to amend my earlier statement.

And I didn't intend to take you to task over it. I admit that I have little practical knowledge in this area.

And I understand what you mean. Moving an ODT file to DOC works if the document is simple, regardless of size. However, even a small document with heavy formatting transfers less well. My bigger question was whether it is possible or not, and whether it had been done or not. You answered that very well.

Now, however, the core question is whether I will buy into this or not. At the moment, I think not, for the reasons I mentioned earlier. 1) It is probably not going to happen anyway and 2) I don't really need a device like this at the moment either.

FWIW, here is a link to an article on BBC News with regard to the current state of the campaign. Even Shuttleworth is admitting that it is probably not going to happen.

Frank.

[SteveRiley]

Yeah, I like my separate laptop, tablet, and phone, too. Sometimes I lug around a PS Vita, but Sony is doing everything they can to make it more and more unattractive: the stupidest process in the world for transferring music and movies and an abysmal absence of new and compelling games. I may hock that (and my older PSP and my Nook) on Craigslist and get one of those wicked nVidia Shields.

[tek_heretik]

I would love to make a donation but since Ubuntu has recently been drifting towards the same 'dark-side' as Google, meh, I''ll wait for it to hit store shelves and the hacks to remove the 'spyware' are well under way.

[whatthefunk]

I would love to make a donation but since Ubuntu has recently been drifting towards the same 'dark-side' as Google, meh, I''ll wait for it to hit store shelves and the hacks to remove the 'spyware' are well under way.

It isnt going to hit shelves. It fell way short of the $32 million mark and so the project will more than likely join the dozens of other abandoned Canonical ventures.

[tek_heretik]

It isnt going to hit shelves. It fell way short of the $32 million mark and so the project will more than likely join the dozens of other abandoned Canonical ventures.

...and the peoples' money? Do they get it back?

[whatthefunk]

...and the peoples' money? Do they get it back?

Yeah. Crowdfunding sites dont release the money unless the goal has been reached. So this didnt cost anybody anything and the only thing Canonical got was a reality check.

[whatthefunk]

The deadline has been reached and they failed to raise even half of the goal. So ends yet another Canonical project. In the message posted on Indiegogo by Shuttleworth, he says:

Most importantly, the big winner from this campaign is Ubuntu. While we passionately wanted to build the Edge to showcase Ubuntu on phones, the support and attention it received will still be a huge boost as other Ubuntu phones start to arrive in 2014. Thousands of you clearly want to own an Ubuntu phone and believe in our vision of convergence, and rest assured you won’t have much longer to wait.

Which is good news if you still believe what this guy says about product availability. Looking back to January of this year:

According to Shuttleworth, within 6 to 12 months the Ubuntu Phone OS could ship as the core operating system on devices.

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/softwa...-ces-2013.html

[texaswriter]

I think it was extremely arrogant of Canonical and Shuttleworth to try to raise that much money from the public via a crowd-funding site. If one would believe it takes that much money to develop a phone from assembling existing components from outsourced companies (that also already exist), which I am not so confident of fwiw, to declare that the PUBLIC (its supporting fans) should bare ALL the cost of this, NOT AS AN INVESTMENT mind you, is horrible. $32 million is a lot of money, too much money. This amount of money is all the investment they should need to develop and produce the required amount, but who do they owe for the investment? No one.

I think crowdfunding is great for small, efficient operations who can delivery something the larger companies aren't willing to produce. For example, larger corporations don't believe in product diversity. HP was going to stop producing computers because the profit margin was around 10% (there was a profit margin, given a large swollen bureaucratic corporation... consider yourself lucky). These large organizations can sometimes lack the discipline to efficiently provide a diverse product portfolio.

I support projects on kickstarter where basically a small corporation or team is providing something I deem a) personally useful, b) worthy of the money I bestow on it, c) likely to succeed.

As far as $695 phones, I think an Ubuntu phone would be personally useful however I don't think it is worth $695 (IMO) and I don't think the project would succeed. Also, as I stated already, I do not believe a project of such scope supposedly requiring such an investment should be funded in a manner on a crowdfunding site. It may be that Canonical also feels this way and so set the limit so high just to make a point. $14 million is a worthy amount of money to be able to raise in this fashion, even if you REALLY shouldn't be trying to. That much money should come with ownership.

I can somewhat understand the emnity that Canonical is fostering in the open source community. I do not personally like Unity or MIR, but I can understand that Shuttleworth thinks he is trying to accomplish something. I hope that in the future Canonical is better about contributing BACK changes that are highly useful to EVERYBODY ELSE in the F/OSS world. That said, I feel this thread is a bit tainted with a fan-boi vs hater theme.

;tldr:
1) Canonical was definitely trying to send a message to the world;
2) Hopefully, Canonical set a purposely high target for what should be ethical concerns or at least common decency (or something);
3) Kickstarter-esque campaigns are great for small companies with highly effective teams who merely need funding to be able to do what they do so well already;
4) Canonical's Ubuntu can be thought of as the most visible face of Linux and much of what is in the F/OSS community --> unfortunate that Canonical isn't viewed better by the F/OSS community;
5) It is always good to separate emotion from reason/logic when discussing (if no where else). For example, although I stopped using vanilla Ubuntu before Unity was standard, I still appreciate what Ubuntu stands for and will support it by using Kubuntu as long as it makes sense. I actively contribute on ubuntuforums and here --> both are invaluable resources for the wider Ubuntu user base.

[SteveRiley]

Here is the question I can't seem to answer to my own satisfaction: Canonical wants to be a phone manufacturer now. Do we, as contributors to free and open source software, want our efforts to go toward helping somebody sell phones?