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    What does Kubuntu really need to take over the desktop?

    This post will get me flamed no doubt, but I've never been accused of not having an opinion.

    As I updated my kernel this morning - and then removed my older kernel, verified dkms worked properly - and prepared for a re-boot it occurred to me that there are still some fairly large things in the way of linux (Kubuntu) really taking over the "home" market. I realize this has been discussed a ba-zillion times but I wanted to hear some solid ideas on what should or should not be changed.

    I believe most of us have used Windows of one iteration or another in the past and many, like me, still use it daily because of work or some other reason. So we all know (see note #1) that Windows does some things right - even very right.

    I thought it might be useful to share thoughts on what Windows does very well that Kubuntu needs to or could improve on to be more generally accepted as the OS of choice.

    I make some bold assumptions:
    • Most computer users only consume and do not create with their computers. Internet browsers, email clients and solitaire are likely 60-70% of what most computers are used for. These people don't want to know why something works on their PC, just that it does.
    • These comments don't really apply to most of us here because we have the knowledge to make our Kubuntu machines do everything we want them to do already and could care less if it were even a little easier.


    So, answering my own question: What Kubuntu needs is to appeal to the larger, more common group of computer users.

    Why care about this? Well because a lot of the things we (linux users) lack - driver/hardware vendor support, really good current main stream games, commercially usable software - will come to linux when the userbase is large enough to support the development costs of these things.

    Linux already has some great "selling" points: It's free, it doesn't get viruses, it's free, it's open so the user can freely change anything they have the desire to fiddle with, it's free, scale-ability, security, I could go on and on...

    So what needs to be added to the Kubuntu (see note #2) functionality? Keep in mind I'm thinking of the very basic user, not a linux experienced user.

    Kernel/Driver management: The function that brought this question to my mind was the kernel update. Installing a new kernel doesn't remove the previous version. If the user doesn't know to remove kernels no longer needed, one could easily have 30 kernels or more installed in an LTS release. A simple setting and a check to verify how many kernels were available or how long since any particular kernel had been booted would be a great feature. A notice at boot time with a removal option could solve this. Add to this a system check to verify kernel drivers (like nVidia or vboxhost for example) had properly installed and activated and a notice or warning about same after a new kernel was installed would make my three step upgrade into a single step action, and prevent possible problems for those less capable than myself.

    Data Backups: This is one area where we suffer from too many choices and none of them easy. We really need a clean, GUI driven, widely functioning backup menu. An everyday simple user should be able to open a window with a Dolphin-like view, select directories to backup, select target locations, enter a schedule, and save. Period. This could be done very easily I think.

    Roll-Back of the OS installation: This is a bit more complicated. However, if you use btrfs file system it's not. This should (IMO) be a default feature when btrfs is being used for the OS. While btrfs is still considered experimental, soon it will not be and ext4 was always intend as a stop-gap file system anyway. An automatic number of roll-backs could happen without any user input and might help recover from a unintended gaff.

    That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's a hundred more ideas out there. For instance; I have never even tried to use the guided install method for Kubuntu. Does it work well enough?

    I would like to be able to hand anyone a Kubuntu CD, and know they'll be able to handle the install and setup as easily as Windows XP. Are we there yet?

    I'd like to hear your thoughts.

    NOTE #1: The "we" means those of us who aren't total mindless Redmond haters. I know you're out there.
    NOTE #2: I'm using linux and Kubuntu interchangeably. Insert the name of your favorite distro anywhere you like.

    Please Read Me

    #2
    I 'think' that I agree with you, at least in principle. My personal opinion, however, in what is holding Kubuntu (heck, any Linux distro) back from becoming more dominate in the home PC market is the fact that it is free. Don't get me wrong; I love the fact that Linux is free (even though it can be sold/purchased, and some Linux is -- RedHat as an example). But because it is: by requirement; it's difficult, if not impossible, to monetize. And profit is the engine that drives any market.
    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Snowhog View Post
      I 'think' that I agree with you, at least in principle. My personal opinion, however, in what is holding Kubuntu (heck, any Linux distro) back from becoming more dominate in the home PC market is the fact that it is free. Don't get me wrong; I love the fact that Linux is free (even though it can be sold/purchased, and some Linux is -- RedHat as an example). But because it is: by requirement; it's difficult, if not impossible, to monetize. And profit drives the market.
      Agreed. Human nature dictates that we don't value what is given to us without cost.

      My former and current employers both use Redhat - I assume because it had service included.

      It was sad to see Mandriva go bankrupt. I really think without a very well monied effort by some major backers we won't see a home user explosion anytime soon.

      Please Read Me

      Comment


        #4
        I also think that main stream gaming is also holding linux back. I know allot of people who would make the switch except for the fact they cannot play most of what they wont to without major hassle. I am glad this will soon start changing with valve taking a keen interest in bringing more main stream games to linux.

        Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post
        Kernel/Driver management...
        This should be doable, but you (read: someone who wants to help) would have to look at the kernel install/update scripts in the ubuntu package to find out how easy it is.

        Data Backups...
        I wonder how hard it would be to integrate this into dolphin... right click a folder/file and select backup to xxx couldn't get much more user friendly then that. I might (or anyone else could) have a look into service menus to see if this can't be done simply.

        Roll-Back of the OS installation...
        This is trivial with btrfs, I think fedora or opensuse can already do this and from what I know apt-get already has some support or people working on support for doing this type of thing. Or at least of taking the snapshots to make rolling back easy. But it does rely on btrfs becoming more stable. I have been using it for a while now and have noticed it crashing a few times on my netbook. Though I have not lost anything (and the system continued to run after the crashes) it does dump the crash log to my screen in a very unfriendly way and all crashes are a concern. I do hope they don't introduce it as default to early like they did with pulseaudio.

        For instance; I have never even tried to use the guided install method for Kubuntu. Does it work well enough?
        From what I have seen of it, it works well enough. It cannot handle complex disk layouts and I think it only works with one disk, but overall works fairly well. Especially for one disk dual boot with windows (resize and use the freed space) or installing onto a blank disk, which is what most people will do.

        I would like to be able to hand anyone a Kubuntu CD, and know they'll be able to handle the install and setup as easily as Windows XP. Are we there yet?
        We are there, xp wasn't exactly user friendly to install at least not as much as kubuntu is and we are at least on par with windows vista/7 which I found it choked on more disk configurations then kubuntu did (with no easy way to fix it other then booting up a linux live cd ).

        But It is worth encouraging anyone who wants to help to try and see if they can't take a stab at these problems as that is the best way to get these issues fixed. Quite allot of the developers are busy doing things that need to be done, but almost always have time to point you in the right direction or give you advice on where to start

        Comment


          #5
          I agree with all you'v stated so far .
          I would add that the average computer/windows user is also used to being abell to just install anything they run across on the net that looks interesting to them unfortunately if running linux you cant usually just do that as most stuff is for windows , although that is slowly changing it is still the normal case .

          as for your section on Kernel/Driver management: that is a sore point for new windows converts...... as to removing old kernel entry’s their is a GUI package for that kde-config-grub2 that puts the GUI in system settings>start up and shutdown .

          VINNY
          i7 4core HT 8MB L3 2.9GHz
          16GB RAM
          Nvidia GTX 860M 4GB RAM 1152 cuda cores

          Comment


            #6
            Whats really holding it back is a) lack of support for Windows programs and formats and b) a misconception that Linux is only for dorks and therefore is terminal based.

            Comment


              #7
              Here is a controversial bit or 2:
              Do we have to be mainstream? Even with a small percentage of the so-called "shrinking" desktop market, there are still many millions of users, coders, and contributors, so the Linux ecosphere seems healthy an vibrant.

              There are those who do not want Linux to become too mainstream. This is seldom looked at. How many people would move on if it became so?

              Fragmentation - like it or not, Ubuntu has done a lot to combat this simply by having a massive user base. It is also a source of quite a lot of the new distros out there, adding to the mass. (otoh, could these sort of be treated by the public as akin to different roms for one's phone?)

              MS will have to stumble greatly, or piss off a major PC vendor for any real chance of a Year of the Linux Desktop.

              Personally, I don't care if Kubuntu isn't #1. Now, I don't want to be in last place, mind you, but in order to get to the top, and beyond, means having the structure and size of ubuntu behind it. That might mean someone like me becoming les and less relevant than he already is, much less connected. (yeah, I am selfish . And I do recognize that canonical/ubuntu do utterly amazing and tremendous work in acknowledging, recognizing, and appreciating their community).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by claydoh View Post
                MS will have to stumble greatly, or piss off a major PC vendor for any real chance of a Year of the Linux Desktop.
                Given some of the reviews of windows 8 and their table this could happen soon :S

                Comment


                  #9
                  Oh, no, I think it will have to stumble more than that. They will have to stumble greatly on Windows 9, as historically, every other Windows version is crappy.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Click image for larger version

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                      #11
                      Three things holding (or will hold) Linux back:
                      1) Highly slanted playing field in the PC OEM market. I fondly remember when one bought a naked PC and installed the OS of their choice. This was before the appearance of Win95 and WinModem, WinPrinters WinPerhiperal deals which blocked all other OSs from the PC OEM desktop.
                      2) Because of #1 the peripheral makers also stopped cooperating with Linux/Foss developers, forcing them to use green rooms to reverse engineer video and other device drivers. Considering the roadblocks placed in their way they have done a REMARKABLE job. Before WIn95 peripheral makers included a CPU on their card, along with firmware, and supplied documentation on how to configure the desktop to communicate with it.
                      3) The 3rd barrier has not yet appeared but promises to be a HUGE hurdle to Linux adoption: UEFI and its "certification".

                      IMO, I find that Kubuntu (and several other distros) are superior to Windows in power and ease of use. For the simple stuff: browsing, video, email -- Kubuntu 12.04 (and its predecessors) have been MORE than adequate replacements for Windows or Mac, and it has the added benefit of being highly resistant to viruses and Trojans. I have more than a couple dozen folks between 50 and 80 who found it so. For advanced users (except for those whose "requirements" are always proprietary apps for Windows or Mac) the shackles come of and the power of Kubuntu magnifies their productivity.
                      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by claydoh View Post
                        Oh, no, I think it will have to stumble more than that. They will have to stumble greatly on Windows 9, as historically, every other Windows version is crappy.
                        Also allot of manufactures where really pissed off at the announcement of their surface tablet more so then with anything else they have done so far.
                        Last edited by james147; Aug 11, 2012, 06:57 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by claydoh View Post
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]3584[/ATTACH]
                          LOL now I really like that

                          VINNY
                          i7 4core HT 8MB L3 2.9GHz
                          16GB RAM
                          Nvidia GTX 860M 4GB RAM 1152 cuda cores

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by vinnywright View Post
                            LOL now I really like that
                            Yeah...that image in the upper right corner...I've used that in numerous security presentations. It always gets a good laugh.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I would add one more thing. It is quality or rather lack of very good quality. This prevents me from recommending GNU/Linux distributions to windows users. The problem is that distribution is made of several elements like kernel, desktop environment, applications and each element is made by different teams. This seems to be the cause of the problem. If one team could cooperate and create one product this would be an operating system - like Mac. Now there are only distributions.

                              I don't even understand why Blue system sponsors Mint, Kubuntu and creates Netrunner as a separate project. Why not combine resources and create one solid system and repair bugs quickly and develop new features? The problem is that people behind distribution has no real control of the quality of their product. I might be wrong because I am only user not even a developer, but that's how I see it.

                              And release schedule is another problem. I install 12.04 LTS and I have a set of bugs. Then I report bugs and I see that some of them are several years old and there is no hope they will be fixed soon. Other bugs that are valid for 12.04 or KDE 4.8.4 get fixed but in the next KDE release 4.8.5 or 4.9. This way I need to keep upgrading and when I upgrade I get a new set of bugs. And this goes on and on. This really annoys me. I can leave with that myself, but that is the reason that I don't recommend Linux to average windows user.

                              It takes a lot of time to search for bugs reports, googling, searching for solution that used to work but after upgrade doesn't. I wish I could have Linux at least LTS release where bugs are fixed and doesn't require upgrade but where new software versions are coming. But I guess this is impossible with Kubuntu dependent from Ubuntu release schedule.

                              Another great example of rather poor quality is that there are features like for example grouping panel but they just doesn't work at all. How can I recommend my distribution to anyone and tell him: this just doesn't work, don't worry it is just another bug that you need to report. Windows users don't report bugs.

                              Linux may become a little more popular because recently game companies don't assess windows 8 positively but if things with Linux continue as they are nothing will change. That's an obvious conclusion for me.

                              Here are other valid arguments:

                              Why Linux Sucks | LFNW 2012
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh-cnaJoGCw
                              This guy makes a lot of good points.

                              Please, don't take my words as a complaint. I use Kubuntu because I accept it as it is now. This is my deliberate choice. I now what I do, but I just don't recommend Linux to windows users. Eventually I can say give it a try and decide for yourself.

                              To sum up, I think that the problem and the fact that Linux have not as many users as it could have is caused by the way it is (dis)organized.

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