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**ardvark71** · Oct 09, 2011, 12:02 AM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

chooses *nix for its public cloud, yet steadfastly refuses to offer its customers non-windoze computers.

Ah, but this is where the "free market" comes in. Here are some outfits that sell systems with Ubuntu or another distribution preinstalled...

http://www.system76.com/

http://zareason.com/shop/home.php?cat=

http://laclinux.com/gnu/Start

Regards...

**DoYouKubuntu** · Oct 09, 2011, 10:28 AM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

The thing is, I'm fond of HP products. I have yet to find one--whether it be a laptop, scanner, all-in-one printer, desktop, etc.--that doesn't work perfectly with Linux. And when they run a sale on something I want--as was the case with my newest laptop--their prices can't be beat. I'd like to support companies that sell Linux computers, but my decades-long history with HP products keeps me buying them. I've even asked them if they can just sell me the computer without an OS, but they can't because of their 'contractual obligation' to M$.

**ardvark71** · Oct 10, 2011, 04:35 AM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Hi...

I just read in an article that if one does not agree to the Windows EULA, then he/she can request a refund and have the copy of Windows removed from the system. Some OEM's have policies providing for this while other don't. In case you already haven't, it might be worth contacting HP and seeing if they have something in place regarding this.

Regards...

**The Liquidator** · Oct 10, 2011, 09:00 AM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

but they can't because of their 'contractual obligation' to M$.

That sounds very scary and monopolistic and smacks of anti-trust to me.

**GreyGeek** · Oct 10, 2011, 09:48 AM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

....
I've even asked them if they can just sell me the computer without an OS, but they can't because of their 'contractual obligation' to M$.

The Clayton Antitrust Act specifically outlaws the exact problem you have:

* Sales on the condition that (A) the buyer or lessee not deal with the competitors of the seller or lessor ("exclusive dealings") or (B) the buyer also purchase another different product ("tying") but only when these acts substantially lessen competition (Act Section 3, codified at 15 U.S.C. § 14);

HP forcing you to purchase Windows with your computer is "tying" the purchase of the computer to Windows, a requirement which the Act disallows. That the Act is not enforced is a direct result of corruption in both Congress and the Courts. Congress because of bribes the politicians receive to appoint specific corporate lawn jockeys as heads of Federal Agencies originally created to protect the public against corporate abuses but which now protect the corporations from the ire of the abused public (thus creating the cabal), and Judges because of bribes (a.k.a. "trips for judges") to visit luxury vacation spots at corporate expense, where they attend "seminars" on legal techniques to evade the intent of the laws in order to rule in favor of corporate interests.

**DoYouKubuntu** · Oct 10, 2011, 12:14 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Interesting replies. And thought provoking!

Here's one of my recent exchanges with HP [just the pertinent parts]:

Sent: 03/03/11 16:29:30
Subject: HP questions before you buy

Please provide detailed information to assist HP in your purchasing decision: I do NOT want to pay for windoze. I either want no OS so I can install Linux on it myself, or I want Linux preinstalled. Please tell me how to order a laptop WITHOUT paying for windoze on it.

Thank you for contacting Hewlett-Packard.

Due to licensing agreements with Microsoft, all current consumer HP Pavilion and Compaq Presario "Customize-to-Order" and Pre-configured desktop and notebook PC Series feature the new Microsoft Windows 7 operating system. There is no option for selecting a PC without an Operating System on these series. I apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced with this issue.

...

Sincerely,

Tim
HP Presales Representative
Hewlett-Packard

And here's another exchange:

Received: 7/29/11 1:16:59 AM SGT
To: hp direct <hpdirect@cimondemand.com>
Subject: Ready to buy product question

Feedback: I'm ready to buy YET ANOTHER HP computer. Every computer in my house is HP/Compaq.

However, I'm tired of paying the microsoft tax. The first thing I do upon receipt of a new computer is wipe the drive and install Linux. When is HP going to offer Linux as the OS on its computers? I'm planning to buy another laptop and I'd LOVE not having to pay for microsoft garbage that's going to be deleted as soon as I get my hands on it.

Thank you for contacting the HP Home & Home Office Sales Center.

I understand that you would like to know on when does HP offers Linux Operating System on our computers. I must say, you've made a great choice of choosing HP for your computing needs. We appreciate you for choosing HP for your computing needs. I will be very happy to address your concerns today.

I know how eager you are to know on when we will offer Linux on our system. However, I do apologize to inform you that there is no update that HP will offer Linux on our computers. No worries, feedback like yours is highly appreciated. I'll make sure that I could raise this concern to my management team.

**Snowhog** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:18 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Windows refund

The "Windows refund" is a refund claimed by a user after purchasing a computer with the Microsoft Windows operating system pre-installed on it. The refund is issued by the computer manufacturer, or occasionally the retailer, for the copy of Microsoft Windows alone, rather than the whole computer. Microsoft's dominance in desktop computing operating systems and a frequent lack of understanding on the manufacturer's or retailer's part often makes this refund difficult (but not impossible) to obtain.

**SteveRiley** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:28 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

I've always been a fan of HP products, too. But now that PSG is being sold off, I'm not sure it's a good idea to be buying HP gear at the moment. Its future is uncertain.

**DoYouKubuntu** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:35 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

With my most recent laptop I decided it wasn't worth the time and energy to seek the few dollars I MIGHT get as a windows refund. So I just wiped the drive and installed Kubuntu and forgot about it. But when I get ready to buy another computer, I'll contact HP...again...and tell them...again...that I don't appreciate being charged for an OS that will never see the light of day.

And--to get back to the original point of this post!--the irony of HP running on and relying on *nix, yet refusing to offer non-M$ products to its customers, really gets me!

**oshunluvr** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:43 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by ardvark71

Hi...

I just read in an article that if one does not agree to the Windows EULA, then he/she can request a refund and have the copy of Windows removed from the system. Some OEM's have policies providing for this while other don't. In case you already haven't, it might be worth contacting HP and seeing if they have something in place regarding this.

Regards...

Dell's latest EULA includes the clause that if you don't want to pay for the OS, you have to return the whole computer.

At least they still sell a couple models with Ubuntu.

**vinnywright** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:47 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

With my most recent laptop I decided it wasn't worth the time and energy to seek the few dollars I MIGHT get as a windows refund. So I just wiped the drive and installed Kubuntu and forgot about it. But when I get ready to buy another computer, I'll contact HP...again...and tell them...again...that I don't appreciate being charged for an OS that will never see the light of day.

And--to get back to the original point of this post!--the irony of HP running on and relying on *nix, yet refusing to offer non-M$ products to its customers, really gets me!

Amen brother

I have never understood why you cant get a box/laptop without a OS ............but their ya go $ at work

I like HP products as well ....................and currently have 11.04 & 11.10 on a HP-G62 I just got a month or 2 ago and love it 8)

VINNY

**Snowhog** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:47 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Emails are free (in that you are already paying for your Internet access account), so just keep writing to HP and demanding a refund. Send one every single day. You might be surprised.

**DoYouKubuntu** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:51 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by vinnywright

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

With my most recent laptop I decided it wasn't worth the time and energy to seek the few dollars I MIGHT get as a windows refund. So I just wiped the drive and installed Kubuntu and forgot about it. But when I get ready to buy another computer, I'll contact HP...again...and tell them...again...that I don't appreciate being charged for an OS that will never see the light of day.

And--to get back to the original point of this post!--the irony of HP running on and relying on *nix, yet refusing to offer non-M$ products to its customers, really gets me!

Amen brother

Sister.

I have never understood why you cant get a box/laptop without a OS ............but their ya go $ at work

Back in the day, you could, but it's gotten increasingly difficult over the years. And if, like me, you LIKE HP's computers and want to use them, then you're not going to look elsewhere for a computer sold without an OS, so you're stuck with HP's policies.

I like HP products as well ....................and currently have 11.04 & 11.10 on a HP-G62 I just got a month or 2 ago and love it 8)

Exactly. I love my HP products and simply have no complaints about them other than the OS issue.

**vinnywright** · Oct 10, 2011, 01:56 PM

Re: Ubuntu Powers HP's Public Cloud

Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu

Sister.

OOPS

but their ya go who ever knows on the net

VINNY

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