I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

[oshunluvr]

I've been a daily poster here for some time. Lately, I've been involved in some projects eating more of my time so I've dropped off a bit. This week I did my new 11.04 install and checked back in to catch up with the forum.

I am amazed at how many new members are posting totally empty (of any real content) topics. No searching, no details, no data - just posts like this one:

No go on this computer? missing driver --anyone have this figured out yet?

I must have gone through more than a dozen just like the one above until I decided to post this comment. Normally, I would just ignore posts of this type and move on to the next one. But there's all-of-a-sudden so many of them I'm concerned if this trend continues unabated our forum will become like the Ubuntu forum - 1,000,000s of posts and very little information.

Personally - I'm am going to post a few responses regarding forum conduct and see what response I get.

Of all of you, I respectfully request: If you agree with me, please respond to these posts in a similar fashion as I. If you are one of these posters, please remove or review and edit your post so that our forum stays informative and helpful.

Thank you.

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

It may be interesting to correlate those kinds of posts with the number of times those posts those posters have. My guess would be that those kinds of questions are coming from new or low posters, which suggests that they are not too sophisticated in the use of a computer -- either Windows or Linux.

[oshunluvr]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I agree GG - several of the ones I came across were post #1.

All the more reason to point them at ;

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3080379.0
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=4216.0
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3110357

IMO all part of bringing the new users along the linux path. They'll have a much better experience if they participate in their own solutions.

[claydoh]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

It happens every 6 months, too

All it takes is to ask for more info - as well as pointing to the "Please Search" posts.
Adding in how to search here using google is a good idea too, as our search can be terrible.

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I suspected that it would be primarily low posters.

However, recently I had a guy who has programmed for over 30 years ask me questions about VMware that a simple Google search would have answered. I asked him if he thought I was born with that information, and why he wasn't able to search it out himself. It takes all kinds.

[MoonRise]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I suspected that it would be primarily low posters.

However, recently I had a guy who has programmed for over 30 years ask me questions about VMware that a simple Google search would have answered. I asked him if he thought I was born with that information, and why he wasn't able to search it out himself. It takes all kinds.

What was his response? A programmer should know how to search!!

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I told him that he had to learn how to use Google to teach himself if he wanted to continue being employed as a programmer. He stuttered and changed the subject. That conversation took place on my cell phone. I was outside working in the yard so I told him I had work to do and forced a quick goodbye. Previously, I had to talk him through a VMware and guest OS install. He couldn't figure out how to install the guest additions or to make his mouse work properly in the guest OS. He was laid off of his previous coding job. He's taking more programming classes at a local community college and bought a lot of $29 Microsoft student CD's and DVD's (MS cheap cocaine hits). He bought a naked PC with the intent of installing Win7 Ultra himself, but the CDs were upgrade versions, which one can install on a naked machine anyway, it turns out, so Microsoft truly is giving away the farm to maintain market share. But, he didn't know to make sure he had Microsoft Security Essentials and CCleaner executables ready to install before he connected to the Internet. Being a programmer whose career began with 24 years of COBOL coding, and the last 10 on the PC, the amount of hand-holding he was asking for amazed me.

[oshunluvr]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

Sometimes, it's simply a slight personality disorder. Taking the perceived easiest path rather than doing any work by oneself.

My optimistic side says if we prod them in the right direction, they'll start doing their homework. The pessimistic side says they'll move on to another forum or distro (or back to winblows).

[sithlord48]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

wow, i can use a programing job like that. thats an amazing amount of hand holding. but i see this kind of thing alot at my job. i will go to look a customers location to set up a copier as network print/scan. and you would be susprised how many Sys admins are clueless when tell them it can share via samba. I have had more then one look at me and go whats samba? these are A+ cert. w/ their MSCE (some of them) And they don't even know what samba is.

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

That's perceptive, oshunluvr, He used to work where I worked, but not in the same coding section. I didn't know what he was working on or what tools he had to use, but based on some questions he asked me then I wondered how he got his job. Later, when a new gov took over a new tax commissioner came and the first thing he asked from a gal in personnel was a list of all 500 employees in the department, by age and salary. ( - shocked me too, because that kind of request is age discrimination, but the gal bent over and supplied the info.) Anyway, a guy in my dept who was a friend of his deduced on his own (wrongly) that people would be let go according to how recently they had been employed. It scared this guy so he preemptively jumped ship rather then get laid off. What actually happened was the the higher and older you were (i.e., bigger salary) the more likely you were let go. We had 12 divisions in the department, all logically organized and sensible according to the tasks required of each division. We called the division heads the "12 apostles", because the tax commissioner was considered J.C. His rules were law. The new J.C. decimated the apostles. laying off or demoting all of them and combining the divisions into about 4 units with overworked unit heads. I retired just as that new structure was being organized, so I don't know how it is working out and I don't discuss such things with my son, who took over as head of the coding section I was in after I left.

[ardvark71]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I am amazed at how many new members are posting totally empty (of any real content) topics. No searching, no details, no data

Hi....

Perhaps a gentle reminder to these folks would help. I would also like to see OP's make sure and leave a follow up post after an answer has been given so we know the status of the problem and what they have done (rather than hearing nothing back at all.)

Regards...

[sithlord48]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I would also like to see OP's make sure and leave a follow up post after an answer has been given so we know the status of the problem and what they have done (rather than hearing nothing back at all.)

We are susposted to have that w/ the [SOLVED] in the subject, but it don't always happen either. it would be great if every OP did this.

[oshunluvr]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

I agree Ardvark.

GG, this has been discussed before but often it boils down to problem solving skills: some of us just don't have any.

In general, I would include anyone doing coding for a living as requiring some set of problem solving tools but I guess that's not always the case.

Myself - a 25 year veteran Air Traffic Controller - I can proudly say I have a few problem solving tools in my toolbox!

EDIT: I also suspect if I were a moderator here I would by slightly unpopular 8)

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

.... these are A+ cert. w/ their MSCE (some of them) And they don't even know what samba is.

The MSCE certification program is a revenue stream for Microsoft "partners", but the main content of the training program is to relate problems to specific GUI's and what buttons to click on that GUI to solve those problems. We had 6 MSCE running their butts ragged trying to keep 500 Windows workstations running. Their mantra was "reboot, rebuild or reinstall". Most of the time they bypassed investigation and diagnosis and went straight to reinstalling Win. As Novell began to lose server market share instead of hopping on the MS bandwagon and facing all the security problems we started installing Linux servers to replace Netware servers when the hardware failed. They sent our best MSCE to RH certification training. He was constantly ragging on me and ridiculing Linux. When he came back he was a different person. He had become educated. He knew networking and PCs at the protocol and hardware level. He became a Penguin. 8) The new gov I mentioned previously was a Microsoft guy and the state became an MS shop.

[GreyGeek]

Re: I see an unsettling trend... poor initial postings becoming commonplace

...
Myself - a 25 year veteran Air Traffic Controller - I can proudly say I have a few problem solving tools in my toolbox!
....

As a pilot who has communicated with many a control tower I am in awe that you remained on that job for 25 years! Especially since the FAA has allowed the radar and computer networks you folks used to lag behind and create the mess we are in today.