Announcement

**claydoh** · May 07, 2011, 06:30 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Some of these are old, oft-repeated concepts that in some cases cannot or will not be changed. A couple of key design concepts behind Kubuntu are:

Releases are single-cd in size
Kubuntu is a KDE-centric distro that attempts to keep to KDE's own defaults

With those in mind, comments are in-line:

Originally posted by superoptimo

Hi, I did migrate to Kubuntu due of the disappointments and mistakes of latest versions of Ubuntu Gnome. And I can say that I fell in love with KDE, demystifying all the bad press around KDE. Actually I've found KDE more stable, fast, and responsible than Gnome, and offers much better functionality and personalization.

However, there are some aspects that could be improved in future distributions. Those are:

Nepomuk is enabled by default. This service takes all the resources of the machine, consumes a lot of RAM and sometimes make the system nearly irresponsible with long wait lags. That's the cause N°1 why other people blame KDE as slow and bloated. This service offers nothing valuable at all: an indexing service that organizes archives in a "semantic" way. Too much sophistication for improve the user experience. So I suggest shipping Kubuntu with this service disable by default, and would be activated by users that acknowledge the high cost of having this service running.

Note that nepomuk does not do any indexing, strigi does that, and iirc that is not enabled by default. nepomuk by itself is the tagging, classification, and starage part. I cannot argue on the resource usage, I have to turn things off on my 8 year old laptops, but on my 3 and 5 year old ones, it is not noticeable. Ram is the kicker here. Searches are lightning fast, as compared to the old file search application when strigi is enabled and has indexed the drive. That is a key feature/improvement for quite a lot of people, I would think.

KPackageKit offers poor functionality and doesn't work very well. I suggest instead shipping Kubuntu with the classic Synaptic Package Manager and the Ubuntu Software Center by default, not only it could align kubuntu with latest developments from Canonical, but also it would improve a lot the user experience for installing new software from ubuntu repositories

Also note that Kubuntu by design only ships KDE/Qt software, other than LibreOffice. These tools are not either. KPackagekit is more than capable, especially compared to even very recent versions. There is the option to use the very new, but very capable Muon as a more Synaptic-like manager. As there are few package managers that handle the apt system in general, and that support in KPK itself is relatively new, These 2 are the only KDE contenders in town, there may be a shootout in the making. Kubuntu has had a number of package managers over it's lifetime, and Muon (created by a Kubuntu developer) could be the default in the future. it is or will be up for discussion for 11/10 I believe.

And last, you could improve the pulse audio support. Would be desirable to offer a configuration application similar to pavucontrol (Pulse Audio Volume Control), instead of the offered by KDE by default. KMix doesn't fit very well with Pulse Audio at all. I have to install pavucontrol and now it works like charm

This is due both to the lack of PA support in KDE until very recently, as well as the lack off KDE tools to manage this. (veromix isn't there yet). Yeah, it isn't even close to ideal, but things do work for a vast majority of people, given the structure and limitations we have.

Thanks for you attention.

Best Regards.

Your thoughts are welcome!!!

**superoptimo** · May 08, 2011, 02:44 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Kubuntu has had a number of package managers over it's lifetime, and Muon (created by a Kubuntu developer) could be the default in the future. it is or will be up for discussion for 11/10 I believe.

So then, you should push forward Muon as the main default package manager. I've checked it and it really does the job, and it does quite fine. You also must ship the Muon Software Center as like the Ubuntu Software Center in Gnome. KPackageKit would frustrate newcomers that want to install debian packages in a easy and clear way, it's buggy and poor designed, conceived more like for a RPM Red-hat paradigm rather than the style and philosophy from Ubuntu and Debian.

Originally posted by claydoh

Note that nepomuk does not do any indexing, strigi does that, and iirc that is not enabled by default. nepomuk by itself is the tagging, classification, and starage part. I cannot argue on the resource usage, I have to turn things off on my 8 year old laptops, but on my 3 and 5 year old ones, it is not noticeable. Ram is the kicker here. Searches are lightning fast, as compared to the old file search application when strigi is enabled and has indexed the drive. That is a key feature/improvement for quite a lot of people, I would think.

I mean the whole thing Nepomuk+Strig+Akonadi, a service which its real utility is doubtful for most users but consumes precious computer resources only for gaining a "semantic-like" capabilities that no one wants. It's the fact. I'm not the only one that thinks that Nepomuk "semantic-like" services are not only unnecessary but also wasteful, most people that faces KDE at first time are thinking that is a bloated system until they discovered the main cause of that workload: Nepomuk+strigi+Akonaid. Not a minority, but a lot of people, are looking the way for disabling those annoying services:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=67074
http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...-how-stop.html
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopi...f=109&p=295828
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3111363.0

No one wants to waste 1 gigabyte of RAM for nothing, and most one wants an snappy, stable and responsive system rather than a full full-fledged system with a lot of cosmetic functionalities. You, as ubuntu developers, have the power and freedom of putting your personal touch on this distribution with simplicity and versatility in mind, "Linux for Human Beings" philosophy. Not just sticking to KDE main guidelines. As Cannonical with their "original" and "unique" Unity project, you also could take the initiative for making Kubuntu an special distribution that competes and differentiate from other similar and more re-known projects (Mandriva, OpenSUSE, Chakra).

**jpenguin** · May 08, 2011, 04:19 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I've never has a problem with KPackagekit, and hope it never goes away. It is really easy for me, when I had to reinstall Kubuntu, I didn't bother to reinstall muon- I never used it anyway...

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH KPACKAGEKIT

**MoonRise** · May 08, 2011, 04:45 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Originally posted by jpenguin

I've never has a problem with KPackagekit, and hope it never goes away. It is really easy for me, when I had to reinstall Kubuntu, I didn't bother to reinstall muon- I never used it anyway...

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH KPACKAGEKIT

Nothing really. It comes down to what you like. I personally like MUON. When it was just kpackagekit and synaptic I always went with synaptic. Again for personally reasons. If you like kpackagekit then go for it. It does the job for you and that should be all that matters.

**Qqmike** · May 08, 2011, 05:27 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Ha! Eternal questions around here.

Now, to incite a riot,

. . .

I'm still using the Adept Manager (or whatever it is technically called) in 8.04.3. Never one single problem, never messed up my system or any of my apps. (More accurately, IF it ever did, I'm either not aware of it, or the mess was so subtle as to be rendered moot and subsequently updated with a fast fix.)

**The Liquidator** · May 09, 2011, 05:58 AM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I use adept as well. Never had a problem with it.

It also has a secondary interface (adept manager I think- I'm on a win box at the mo) which lists packages under the various headings (games/multimedia etc) not altogether unlike the Ubuntu software center.

It's just a pity the adept developer gave up on it 2/3 years ago - I think that may have been when Canonical announced that they would be using kpackagekit in the future. It would be very interesting to see where it otherwise would be now.

**claydoh** · May 09, 2011, 08:42 AM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I don't think canonical made that decision, I think the move to KDE4, and adept2's general awfulness, helped with the Kubuntu team's decision.

personally. I like both Muon and KPK, though I generally use KPK. it is sooo much better than it was only a short time ago. previous to Maverick's version it as not good at all.

I

t also has a secondary interface (adept manager I think- I'm on a win box at the mo) which lists packages under the various headings (games/multimedia etc) not altogether unlike the Ubuntu software center.

And KPK has that now, as part of its main interface actually.

**Linkmaster** · May 29, 2011, 11:55 AM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I'm going to add in my own thoughts, mainly because the original comments by superoptimo are slightly irksome to me.

I mean the whole thing Nepomuk+Strig+Akonadi, a service which its real utility is doubtful for most users but consumes precious computer resources only for gaining a "semantic-like" capabilities that no one wants. It's the fact.

First, I am extremely happy with the Nepomuk stuff. Not really sure what it does, though I know for fact that my system is fast, responsive, snappy, glittery, and all that extra stuff. What makes it so funny is, my system runs off of only 992megs of RAM. My swap partition rarely, if ever gets to be more then 10% full. This in-of-itself proves that its not fact. Please don't use definitions unless they are truth. In this case, its an opinion.

You also must ship the Muon Software Center as like the Ubuntu Software Center in Gnome. KPackageKit would frustrate newcomers that want to install debian packages in a easy and clear way, it's buggy and poor designed, conceived more like for a RPM Red-hat paradigm rather than the style and philosophy from Ubuntu and Debian.

Interesting story about this: I jumped on board the Kubuntu train in the Alpha stages of 10.10. Yes, you heard me, alpha stages, and I was using KPackageKit along with apt-get and .deb files. I never once had a problem. KPackageKit was friendly, resourceful, and it gave me what I wanted, when I wanted. I've tried using the Ubuntu Software center and Synaptic; they are bloated, take time and resources to get used to, and I never noticed a friendly interface. It was usuable, yes. But did it suit a brand-new linux user that I was? Not at all.

Also, I keep hearing these "like Ubuntu" statements...take a look at the top of the page, and realize it says Kubuntu. Just a friendly hint there of course

**bra|10n** · May 29, 2011, 06:24 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I'd like to add my weight for Muon to become the default in 11.10.
I believe it still needs a little improvement though and is similar to Synaptic in many ways.
I'd like to see an option of keeping a previous kernel, a simple toggle on/off in settings.

I also like to know the total size of updates/downloads selected and the ability to filter by status, i.e auto-removable and residual.
I have not found KPackageKit to be able to do this.

Personally I don't like Ubuntu Software Center.

**woodsmoke** · May 29, 2011, 06:31 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

the SEVERAL sides advocated in the above posts have GREAT merit.....

The gentle reader should read ALL of them and then think...

as to posters BELOW this....

POST...>POST)))) POST...if you do NOT post then....duuuhhhh

nobody will know that oddment of information which may sway things this way or that....

YOU..... should post your opinion!!!

woodsmoke

**oshunluvr** · May 29, 2011, 07:08 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

1. Comprehensive way to handle video drivers and associated dependencies at install time, or at least some improvement to Jockey to make sure the added drivers are correctly installed and supported. For example, I've posted at least a dozen times to threads where the linux-headers were not installed along with the nvidia driver even though they're required so that dkms can active the driver in the kernel. This would include the automatic creation of a reversion script to allow the newer users of Kubuntu to more easily revert to standard x drivers on the event of a failure.

2. Massive improvement is need in sound support. Really, it's about friggin time that we all don't have to dig around to get our sound systems to work. I realize there's hundreds of sound cards but we're past the "don't have a driver" stage and are fully in the "developers can't figure out which way to go with the utility" stage. I don't care which way they go but the endless circular install-pulseaudio un-install-pulseaudio thing has to stop, seriously.

3. Either remove the nepomuk-strigi-akondi trio from the default install, or have an "advanced package selection" option so we don't have to hunt-and-kill it over and over again. Add me to the list of people who can't figure out why this is forced on me every time. I still don't really know what they're for or what they do.

As an aside: In KDE3 Kpackagekit was a needed utility IMO. In KDE4 it's been mostly broken until 4.6, within which I have used it almost exclusively (excepting my occasional command line use of apt-get). I encourage those of you who haven't used it in a while give it another whirl. It's not as featured as synaptic, but there's no gnome on my system and I prefer it that way.

**bsniadajewski** · Jun 03, 2011, 07:09 PM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

I remember that when you install Mandriva on a system, the installer gives you the option of removing all unneeded driver packages from the install. I wonder if Kubuntu (or any *buntu for that matter) could have something like that in its installer also.

**wizard10000** · Jun 04, 2011, 04:59 AM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

First, I am extremely happy with the Nepomuk stuff. Not really sure what it does, though I know for fact that my system is fast, responsive, snappy, glittery, and all that extra stuff. What makes it so funny is, my system runs off of only 992megs of RAM. My swap partition rarely, if ever gets to be more then 10% full.

I routinely disable desktop searches and akonadi and my 64-bit system uses less than half that much RAM at idle and the swap partition never gets hit. My 32-bit netbook uses ~175mb at idle and again, swap usage is zero.

But - for me Linux is all about choices. I don't use KDE's PIM functions, preferring to use claws-mail to maintain my email and contacts but then I've never been a "pure KDE" kinda guy

Interesting story about this: I jumped on board the Kubuntu train in the Alpha stages of 10.10. Yes, you heard me, alpha stages, and I was using KPackageKit along with apt-get and .deb files. I never once had a problem. KPackageKit was friendly, resourceful, and it gave me what I wanted, when I wanted. I've tried using the Ubuntu Software center and Synaptic; they are bloated, take time and resources to get used to, and I never noticed a friendly interface. It was usuable, yes. But did it suit a brand-new linux user that I was? Not at all.

I think for new users KPackageKit is just fine but again with Linux being all about choices I don't believe it fills the bill for more experienced users - not that I are one

I've used synaptic for years and find its interface considerably more intuitive than the rest although I'm trying hard to use muon these days. My only real gripe about muon is lack of right-click functionality - where in synaptic I can right-click a package and get a list of options that function appears to be missing in muon and I have to mouse down the bottom of the window to click a button or grab a tab to get the information I want. A small irritation, but it goes against the grain as in a lot of other applications there's some right-click functionality.

**Rog132** · Jun 04, 2011, 05:41 AM

Re: Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Kubuntu 11.10 "Oneiric Ocelot"

Plans *
> OneiricReleaseSchedule
> Kubuntu Specs Oneiric UDS
> Kubuntu Todo Oneiric

Kick KPackageKit off the CD
Get Muon Software Center on the CD
Work out whether Muon package manager should be on the CD too
Evaluate kcm-grub2 for inclusion on the CD
LightDM replaces the KDM
No Kubuntu Alternate ISO
..etc

> KDE 4.7 Release Schedule
> KDE 4.7 Feature Plan

Blogs
> Apachelogger's Log
> Kubuntu 11.10 Mobile Devices Sneak Peak
> Kubuntu 11.10 Sneak Peak

Articles
> Nine features we may see in Ubuntu 11.10 'Oneiric Ocelot'

Ubuntu Forums
> Ubuntu +1 (Oneiric Ocelot)

Alpha 1
> Oneiric Ocelot Technical Overview Alpha1:

Kubuntu

Kubuntu now uses the Muon Software Center and related packages for package management

The core Plasma workspace and related applications have been updated to the latest maintenance release (KDE SC 4.6.3/KDE PIM 4.4.11). The beta of the next major release (4.7 beta 1) is not in Oneiric yet. Users interested in this release should try out Project Neon.

Kubuntu installer status:

* The alternate installer has been tested and works on both i386 and amd64.
* The live session in the normal Kubuntu image works and is useful if you want to try out Kubuntu Oneiric without changing your computer. Installations with this image will fail. In order to install Kubuntu Oneiric Alpha 1 the alternate image must be used.
* No armel or powerpc images are provided as they are known not to be working.

*) All plans are subject to revision

Announcement

Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

Suggestions for next release of Kubuntu

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