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**dibl** · Nov 05, 2010, 01:39 PM

Re: Which Distro?

The *buntus are built from/on Debian Linux. Debian is where the apt package management system originated, and it still seems to me to be the superior package management method (but I confess to only playing with Fedora and Arch for a little while). So, I'm sold on Debian, and Kubuntu is a derivative of it. My other Linux OS is aptosid, which is Debian Sid (newest version that's pretty stable).

Two cents worth.

**ricomoss** · Nov 05, 2010, 01:53 PM

Re: Which Distro?

I've played with kubuntu a bit and can't seem to see much difference between apt-get and yum - except for the GUI version available with kubuntu.

Would you generally get a similar number of available packages with both?

**claydoh** · Nov 05, 2010, 02:01 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Overall there aren't too many HUGE differences between them on the surface, which is why you may want to try them all

Mandriva and Suse use RPM for packages, though they each use different tools for their management. Both also have developed their own tools for various admin/configuration purposes. Both have been around for a very long time, compared to Kubuntu. Mandriva is a commercial distro with free versions, opensuse was commercial for a long time, now has a similar relationship to Suse Enterprise that Fedora has to Red Hat.

Kubuntu, whiich is debian based, is not a commercial distro in any sense, and does not have all the custom tools the others have developed. It uses apt/dpkg to manage software.

IMO from both the command line and from gui, Kubuntu has an easier to use package management system than the others. I don't think there are any huge discrepencies in the amount of software avaialble, but I think it is more readily available in Kubuntu.

From screenshots of the 3, you may not see too many differences looks-wise, though mandriva tends to modify the layout, menus, themes much more than the other 2, while Kubuntu does the least.

In the end, quite a lot depends on one's own personal tastes and needs. here's why I choose Kubuntu:

install based on a single cd that gives me a great set of applications by default
It has the latest KDE versions available to it fairly quickly and easily
the community and forums
I have to modify it the least to get it the way I like it

Now the first and last items are personal preferences, the other 2 are just facts

**claydoh** · Nov 05, 2010, 02:03 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Originally posted by ricomoss

I've played with kubuntu a bit and can't seem to see much difference between apt-get and yum - except for the GUI version available with kubuntu.

Would you generally get a similar number of available packages with both?

For most things, you probably won't see big differences, though Ubuntu/debian may have a larger set overall.

**GreyGeek** · Nov 05, 2010, 02:12 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Originally posted by ricomoss

Is it possible to do a quick run-down of the differences between openSUSE, Mandriva and Kubuntu?
....

I used SUSE from 1998 until Novell bought them. I've used mostly PCLinuxOS and Mandriva from then until I switched to Kubuntu in Feb of 2009.

Package tools:
Mandriva and openSUSE, like the distros you are familiar with, use the RPM packages. Kubuntu uses the deb packaging system. The deb package maintenance tools (adept, apt-get, and their GUI's: Synaptic, KPackageKit) are better than RPM and its tools, IMO.

System Admin:
Mandriva and openSUSE have excellent system maintenance tools (PC Control and YAST), but I'd give the slight edge to Mandriva. It is much faster and more direct ... not so many scripts to run when changiing things. Kubuntu has the KDE "SystemSettings" for most manual configurations of the KDE desktop, and it's built on top of Ubuntu, which relies on Upstart to auto-configure most hardware at bootup. This can give problems for Kubuntu. Take video, for instance. IF Upstart detects and configures your video & display "out of the box" the chances are good that you will get maximum performance from that hardware. IF, however, the LiveCD reverts to framebuffering and you find no accelerated or 3D video, that leaves the average user out of luck because there is NO X sever configuration tool in Kubuntu like XFDrake in Mandriva or SUSE's Sax2. But, for 95% of Kubuntu users the "out of the box" experience is the norm. My Sony VAIO VGN-FW140E had an Intel GM45 video chip and at first I got a VESA video experience with, oddly, about 10% acceleration, on Mandriva. When I tried Kubuntu I noticed that instead of the i810 driver it used the i915 driver, which gave me a good video experience. Over the next few moths the video experience became perfect.

Repositories:
The U/Kubuntu repositories have more packages than either of the other two, and when 3rd party developers (FOSS or proprietary) release packages they almost always include deb's and tar's. At this instant there are 30,665 packages listed in the U/Kubuntu repositories. In my experience there are more deb packages available for U/Kubuntu than any RPM based distro I've used. Mandriva, for example, listed only around 12,000 the last time I used it. It's been quite a while since I've run SuSE so I can't say how many packages the user has at their fingertips in that distro.

Look & Feel:
This totally depends on the user. One can make their KDE desktop look or feel like just about anything. I programmed for most of my adult life before I retired two years ago. I made my KDE desktops look like XP because I didn't want a video paradigm shift when I switched DEs.

Programming:
You already know about. During the last five years before my retirement I used Qt4 as my dev tool to write client-server applications used in-house. My only regret was that QtCreate was released shortly AFTER I retired.

But, Kate, Kdbg, Qt4 and its API docs served me well.

They all come in LiveCD versions. Boot each of them up and play with them a few hours. You can, for example, install programs will running the LiveCD (IF you have enough RAM) and that will give you a feel for how things work. You can use KPackageKit (the default app manager) to enable all of the Ubuntu repositories, then close KPackageKit and open a Konsole. In it do:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install synaptic.
Then close the Konsole and open Synaptic under KGear --> System --> Synaptic
With Synaptic you can easily browse the repository and read descriptions, install a few packages, etc...
When you shut down the LiveCD, even if you've installed some packages, nothing will have been done to your hard drive.

Summary:
Mandriva is in financial trouble and I hear the Russians are in negotiations to buy the distro. PCLinuxOS is the obvious go to distro for those who prefer Mandriva.
openSUSE is a feeder for Novell's SUSE Enterprise Linux Servers. Similar to RH and Fedora. Novell's future is in doubt.
Kubuntu is, IMO, a pure KDE4 DE distro. The only distro similar to it is Linux Mint KDE, which is also built on Ubuntu and features the KDE4 DE.

So, I would suggest the 64bit Kubuntu Lucid Lynx 10.4. It is a Long Term Support (LTS) distro that has over two years remaining in its support term. And, it is still a more "traditional" distro in that it still relies on ALSA for sound and seems to have fewer problems with older video and wireless chips. It comes with a money-back guarantee!

**ricomoss** · Nov 05, 2010, 03:21 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Wow, fantastic read, GreyGeek!

I've been doing some heavy research over the last few days and that has got to be the most informative post I've seen.

Based on what you've said (and other research I've done) I'm going to stay away from Mandriva. Why? Primarily because I couldn't find a free 64-bit distro. My experience with RHEL (which, as you know, has that half-paid-support option) really turned me off to handling an OS that way.

I'm typing this from Kubuntu right now. I've also decided to install openSUSE and give it a try. Coming from Fedora the option to have a true root user is appealing to me. Why? Probably just because it's something familiar.

I'd also like to play with openSUSE's YaST and see how it plays.

I'm sure I'll be posting on these forums often. Thanks again for all the help here!

**GreyGeek** · Nov 05, 2010, 03:49 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Glad to help!

My first impressions of the "sudo" paradigm were one of confusion and lack of trust. There are excellent articles on the philosophy behind using "sudo" and the FIRST account password to get root access. First, remote access or even login to root is not allowed. One must always access root activities from within the first account created. Users of other accounts cannot use sudo unless the prime user puts their name into the sudo users list.

However, it is an easy matter to convert Kubuntu into a normal kind of root usage, with a root account and all, or to convert it back to the Kubuntu default sudo method. Because Kubuntu uses the KDE4 desktop one can run KDE based programs from a console as root by using the kdesudo command.

One of the prime reasons why I decided to stay with Kubuntu was the stability of the deb package system and the power of adept and apt-get (and their gui front end - synaptic) to handle dependencies, which was (is?) a reoccuring problem in RPM based distros.

For example, say you were in the middle of an upgrade where several packages were being installed and in the middle of it, either during the download phase or the install phase, something happens (power spike, hardware failure, etc...) and the upgrade crashes. One can use
sudo apt-get -f install
repeatedly until all is done. Or, one can use
dpkg --configure -a
to repair a broken system.

Here is an interesting primer on dpkg. It has links to cheat-sheets on apt-get and adept.

Hey, just because you end up using something else besides Kubuntu don't be a stranger around here!

**ricomoss** · Nov 05, 2010, 05:36 PM

Re: Which Distro?

I'm not going to go away from the sudo method that is default with Kubuntu. What kind of Linux user would I be if I didn't give it a chance?!?

I've been primarily using the GUI front-end of apt-get (mostly due to the searching option). So far I haven't seen much difference between yum install and apt-get. If you know what your looking for...bam! I've installed Eclipse, Chromium...and a few other random packages to test the waters. Seems stable enough. Dependency resolution seems slightly slower to me...but it may just seem that way since I'm watching a bar slowly growing rather than text flying by my face. haha

It looks like Kubuntu is going to be my "primary" OS. So, I'm sure I'll be around often.

**woodsmoke** · Nov 05, 2010, 06:22 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Calydoh said it is largely a matter of personal opinion and I would agree and take a riff on the comments above.

I do feel that it "depends on personal opinion" but not for the usual reasons.

a) the first and foremost thing is that you really have to "like" things like choice in fonts, the appearance of the panel, that kind of stuff. I know....you can change them relatively, sometimes, easily with desktop settings etc. but here is a good comparison:

Ultimate Edition, which is a great, everything you could possibly want, distro has a cursor that is a four sided arrowhead that rotates. Well...again....you can change that, but it indicates a lot about everything else in the distro. The assumption of the distro is that you have a great honkin' machine to run all that eyecandy... you can get rid of it yes, but ...why if you don't like it then you should try something that doesn't have all that stuff.

GNOME, to me, was always...."fluffy" in appearance, the little hand that you drag stuff with, etc...but I now like Kubuntu's version,

So....appearance does have many consequences in a variety of places.

b) RPM versus DEB..... I really do think that, if you are not used to a particular packaging system that you will like what you "grow up with"...I've used deb for 6 years now and just can't get used to RPM. So, even though I try RPM based distros I drop them.

c) "hand work" versus "hold your hand"... there are quite a few distros, Debian, Ubuntu, etc. that require command line experience, which one can kind of handle but if you don't know what the "command" is to begin with then you are kind of out of luck. A good example is aptosid which is the recent replacement for Sidux which fell apart, apparently, because of a schism between two groups, but.... aptosid requires that you................INSTALL......

....... synaptic,

by apt-get before you can...um.....INSTALL packages..

(now that may have changed so don't jump my bones if it has, it is just an example..) .unless you know the particular name of the package to type in with "apt-get"...you are kind of out of luck.....and....for moi...that is not good because I LOVE the appearance of it!!

lol .... how much hand holding do you need as opposed to how much you can do yourself?

d) forums..... do you just "want the facts m'am" as Jack Webb used to say on Dragnet where you do your own searches, find the answer maybe ask for a tweak and you don't go to forums. Or do you like to go to a forum and visit and learn from reading other people's stuff and also ask questions or post a joke? I noticed at one forum that many people posted that they just "liked browsing all the hundreds of pages of archive stuff, looking at jokes or information". So what is your personality on that?

e) FREE versus Free with qualifications... there are only three, maybe four, distros that really have stripped out EVERY SINGLE THING that has any kind of code in it that is evenly remotely associated with something that even sniffs of "money"....There is one of them, that I think..........notice think......that pretty much works pretty well with what "most" people would expect, but the others may not....In other words your philosophical leanings may be more important than playing a DVD on the computer and you play it on the DVD player in the family room... It could be such a little thing as an odd printer that you inherited that there is not driver for in the "totally free" distro. But, there are, it seems, a lot of people who purposely align their hardware with their philosophical leanings, and there are also ...not...folks who just want things to work.

So....just a couple of other ways to look on why one likes a particular distro.

woodsmoke

**oshunluvr** · Nov 30, 2010, 10:04 AM

Re: Which Distro?

As someone who came from 13 years with RPM, and Kubuntu for the last 2 or so, I can say in my experience DEB packaging is far superior.

Mandrake/Mandriva for many years 7.0 to 9, then PCLinuxOS, then a short time with openSuse (their repo management killed it for me eventually) led me to here. I toyed with others quite a bit but always had one issue or another. PCLinuxOS is the least troublesome RPM distro but only because they keep a total lock-down on what you can or cannot install. This leaves you with far fewer choices when it comes to software. If you install anything from outside their own repo, you are dropped from any forum support, period. OpenSuse's plethora of incompatible RPM repos shoved me into what we affectionately call "RPM hell." The third time I needed to re-install because a repo change caused an incompatibility and it broke itself, I quit. If I wanted a broken install, I will break it myself (which I often do

)

I always leave some hard drive space for a couple of other distros to play with, but I haven't found any I want to switch to since I started using Kubuntu.

**toad** · Nov 30, 2010, 01:21 PM

Re: Which Distro?

I started with Suse:

- hated it 'cos of rpm dependency hell and it also wasn't capable of mounting USB sticks, both of which should have been fixed by now

Then onto Debian stuff:

- tried Kubuntu and loved it. Everything worked, but got fed up with the six monthly release cycle and unsatisfactory upgrades (check the forum, they are here to stay!)

- in between had Debian stable, unstable, experimental, Mepis, all of which were nice but still had release cycles with well documented problems.

Now onto rolling release distros:

- there is aptosid as dibl mentioned. A great distro which does most things automagically
- there is MintDebian which does everything automagically (but as yet only available in 32-bit architecture)
- there is ArchLinux which does absolutely nothing automagically

I was torn between aptosid and ArchLinux and decided upon Arch 'cos it was more "interesting" and has superb documentation.

Overall, however, you should try them all and see how they fit your box, your requirements, your tastes. A big thing to bear in mind, however, is the rolling release principle unless you fancy breaking your system every six or however many months.

EDIT:

If in doubt use your current flavour of the month and keep the others in a virtual environment. I found that sharing my home directory made the switch really quite painless.

**sixonetonoffun** · Nov 30, 2010, 02:21 PM

Re: Which Distro?

Originally posted by ricomoss

Coming from Fedora

I'd be interested in hearing why Fedora didn't make your short list? Just because it seems like a logical choice if your using it for work.

My favs
Kubuntu and OpenSUSE pretty much come in first place
Mepis or Mint for new users

I tried MintDE in a virtual box and its definitely a contender for future use.

Why SUSE? I wanted to get more experience with an rpm based distro and stay with kde latest. SUSE does a very good job of this and remains very stable. Repositories are a little better then in the past IMO. Still a weak area.

**jpenguin** · Dec 17, 2010, 12:22 PM

Re: Which Distro?

I started with PeanutLinux, the Arch, YellowDog, Fedora, Gentoo, OpenSUSE, Mandrake, Lycoris, Linspire, VLOS, Ubuntu, Debain Kubuntu, Mint, LMDE, aptsid.

I use kubuntu currently, it works best for me

**darkduck** · Dec 23, 2010, 09:48 AM

Re: Which Distro?

I tried quite a few so far. Not that I use all of them for long time, mostly for "try and go" situation.
(K)Ubuntu is very good from my perspective.
More here: http://linuxblog.darkduck.com

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