KDE Neon talk at QtCon/Akademy

[acheron]

For those that are interested.

https://streaming.media.ccc.de/qtcon16/relive/385/

[GreyGeek]

Thanks, archeon! Very interesting!
Germany and the USA lead in the number of Neon users.
Frambebuffer pkgs are the only ones not signed yet, but Riddell is working on it.
An interesting bit of information is the availability of Snappy packages, "if you know where to find them". Any hints?

[oshunluvr]

..."if you know where to find them". Any hints?

stuart@office:~$ instal snapd

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  apparmor libapparmor-perl snap-confine squashfs-tools ubuntu-core-launcher
Suggested packages:
  apparmor-profiles apparmor-profiles-extra apparmor-docs apparmor-utils
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  apparmor libapparmor-perl snap-confine snapd squashfs-tools ubuntu-core-launcher
0 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 6,725 kB of archives.
After this operation, 34.2 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
<snip>

stuart@office:~$ sudo snap find all

Name                    Version                Developer           Notes  Summary
scummvm                 1.9.0git               caldav              -      ScummVM is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games
prometheus-pushgateway  0.3.0                  jacek               -      Unofficial snap for the Prometheus Pushgateway
sl-moon127              5.02                   moon127             -      SL
wireless-tools          1                      canonical           -      Tools for manipulating Linux Wireless Extensions
conn-check              1.3.2-2                1stvamp             -      Utility for verifying connectivity between services
vitetris                0.57                   vitetris            -      Console based version of Tetris
wifi-ap                 4                      canonical           -      WiFi Access Point based on hostapd
atomify-lammps          2.0.2                  ovilab              -      Editor for the LAMMPS molecular dynamics simulator
kicad-snap              4.0.4-snap1            eldar               -      Electronic schematic and PCB design software
part-cython             0.24.1                 powersj             -      Optimising static compiler for Python and C
zile-tealeg             2.4.11                 tealeg              -      GNU Zile
stats                   0~20160805+git11b935e  tyhicks             -      Gathers numbers in repeated text
kernelscan              0.0.1                  cking-kernel-tools  -      fast kernel source error message scanner
fiemap                  0.0.1                  cking-kernel-tools  -      file extent dumping tool
so-hello-world          0.2                    shadowen            -      the old classic
xcape-lbo               7fca364                lbo                 -      Modify keys to act as other keys
livetuner               0.1                    cyborgcentral       -      a GUI for livestreamer
dstat-jamiebennett      0.7.3                  jamiebennett        -      Dstat is a versatile replacement for vmstat, iostat, mpstat, netstat and ifstat.
explode-bricks          1.1                    1bsyl               -      very Simple Bricks game
spider-solitaire        1.0                    1bsyl               -      Spider Solitaire card game
mahjong-game            1.0                    1bsyl               -      Mahjong game, a one-player game. Based on SDL2
upnp-server             0.1.0                  ogra                -      upload files with WebDAV and serve them via DLNA/UPnP
snapstore-example       0.3                    noise               -      Minimalist example snap store
filebot                 4.7.2                  pointplanck         -      The ultimate TV and Movie Renamer / Subtitle Downloader
htop                    2.0.1                  maxiberta           -      Interactive processes viewer
webdm                   0.17                   canonical           -      # Snappyd

[oshunluvr]

I also found this:

https://uappexplorer.com/apps?type=snappy

[acheron]

An interesting bit of information is the availability of Snappy packages, "if you know where to find them". Any hints?

I shall find out when people are back from Akademy and a bit more contactable.

They are not listed under the normal snaps in the store or snap command line.

There is:

https://github.com/snappy-packages

but they seem to predate the sprint mentioned in the talk.

There is also for snap development and released stuff, but not many kde apps there.

https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen

[acheron]

Also closely related is

https://store.kde.org/

which the talk here mentions a lot on snap/containerisation for KDE apps, via the store or discover.

[GreyGeek]

Nice vid. Store.kde.org should be a goto source!

The idea of a containerized app like a snap application is long over due. The idea of using apps that were dynamically compiled in order to make use of installed libraries is getting long in the tooth and were it not for repositories we'd have a nightmare trying to keep libraries or dependencies synced to a particular app version. When I was runnning KNOPPIX a decade or so ago I'd install an app (rpm) and it would require a more advanced version of KDE, which would result in 350 files being downloaded and installed. A week later I installed another app and it required the previous version of KDE and without warning downgraded to it. The downgrade borked my system and I began looking at other distros.

I have a 600GB HD and my total usage is only 58GB. I have the room so it would be great if every app came compiled as a static app with its own libraries, config and datafiles installed in the home account (and run inside a chroot ?) so that that all one has to do is delete the app is to delete the folder it resides in. Remember "Klyx"?
I realize that this would be great for single user installations like mine, which probably far outnumber multi-user installations (which probably wouldn't work well with this concept. Anyway, it would be nice to see the repository become a snap app dispenser.

[Snowhog]

Snap/containerization. That's how PC-BSD (BSD) does it. Installable applications are 'complete' in and of themselves, bringing everything needed with them, and so are not dependent on something 'needed' being already installed somewhere else on the system.

[GreyGeek]

It's about time snap apps appeared.

[dequire]

It's about time snap apps appeared.

Couldn't agree more! And if someone is concerned about the modest additional storage requirements, maybe an 'Buntu-based system is not the ideal solution. There's Peppermint, Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux and a zillion others for those use cases. I have a 4 year old drive that's over 1TB which I'll never fill up if I try. I mention this in advance because that's usually the 1st complaint people have about containerized apps...

IMHO they can't come to the KDE Store fast enough.

[oshunluvr]

Yeah, I was gonna say until I continued reading your post - drive space is hardly an issue anymore. Besides, any computer that has room for MS WinBloat has enough room for 8-10 linux installs - snaps included.

[woodsmoke]

So what about the "duplicated dependencies" thing:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/78714...d-dependencies

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comme..._bad_the_ugly/

https://forum.manjaro.org/t/universa...stros/4124/105

woodjustwonderin'smoke

[Snowhog]

Duplicated dependencies becomes a non-issue with snap packaging, as installation of such packages will be 'self contained' and not be in conflict with any other installed package(s). IF it were possible to prevent using external repositories or to prevent installation of 'tar ball' packages in *buntu, then moving to snap packaging wouldn't necessarily be needed. Think of an 'older, but still functioning' application you have that you consider indispensable, but relies on a library file version that other applications use, and those other applications get updated and have been written to use a newer such library. One of two things happens. Either the 'indispensable' program becomes unusable because the library gets changed [re:updated], or the other applications won't update do to the conflict. Snap packaging avoids this entirely.

[woodsmoke]

Hi Snowhog
thanks for the very nice reply.

However, to flog this beast to death.

The "general idea" was that, maybe two word processors, each with certain dependencies, would be in their unique SNAP package and that the dependencies of one were "mostly" the same as for the other.

Thus, for those with restricted hard drive space, the two packages would add up to "two sets" of dependencies while being as "previously done" packages, they would "share" the stuff that both needed.

Like I said, just to beat this to death because there are a lot of "commentators in various message threads" that have their panties in a wad over having "bloat" on their system.

So I would assume that there is, or will be, some way to work this out that I, because I'm just a hard ware kinda guy, have not been able to perceive.

woodsmoke

[acheron]

Sharing is caring, with Snaps!

http://mhall119.com/2016/09/sharing-...ng-with-snaps/