Caspar Bowden, former Microsoft Privacy Chief no longer trusts MS

[Roguehorse]

To be fair to other OSes, since computers don't come pre-loaded with Ubuntu (apart from System 76, but you still have to go out of your way to buy one of those), it's fair to say that everyone using GNU/Linux has actively chosen to use it, and is therefore pretty keen to learn the do's and don'ts.

I have yet to meet anyone using GNU/Linux who sees their computer as just a tool to get stuff done, and not an interesting toy to tinker with too


Feathers

Agreed.

However, I do look forward to the day (and being a part of) the movement to change the options for people to be able to go to their local supplier and have the choice between Ubuntu sitting next to the other on the same shelf. I believe it can be done, and I believe it will happen.

[Feathers McGraw]

More vulnerable / bigger targets ...and they have a different userbase.

To be fair to other OSes, since computers don't come pre-loaded with Ubuntu (apart from System 76, but you still have to go out of your way to buy one of those), it's fair to say that everyone using GNU/Linux has actively chosen to use it, and is therefore pretty keen to learn the do's and don'ts.

I have yet to meet anyone using GNU/Linux who sees their computer as just a tool to get stuff done, and not an interesting toy to tinker with too

Communities like this one are much less vulnerable "click any pop-up without reading it" malware.

Feathers

[Roguehorse]

Imagine, for a moment, that cars could dock with netbooks running Windows. Nobody patches Winodws! OMFG! With that Typhoid Mary of an OS controlling zillions of cars, it'll be CARnage (yuk yuk) on the highways! So, instead, $CAR-MFGR only docks with netbooks running Linux. Linux is much less of an attacker target. Ah, now we can relax.

Shall we rephrase the above?

Imagine, for a moment, that cars could dock with phones running Android. Nobody patches Android! OMFG! With that Typhoid Mary of a mobile OS controlling zillions of cars, it'll be CARnage (yuk yuk) on the highways! So, instead, $CAR-MFGR only docks with phones running Windows. Malware on Windows phones is practically nonexistent. Ah, now we can relax.

Just goes to show that if there is a will, there is a way. The only operating system that is secure is the one that never sees a network or can be interfaced with. Some just seem to be more vulnerable than others or are bigger targets.

[GreyGeek]

IIRC, the USS Yorktown suffered total computer system failure while on a fire exercise. The NT server chain, four deep, ALL crashed, leaving the ship without helm or weapons fire control. It had to be towed back to the shipyard because they couldn't get the system rebooted.

[Feathers McGraw]

I guess any case with GPS built in has to be able to connect to the internet for the maps (unless they're stored locally but you'd still need to update them).

Yeah, we'll definitely be seeing that in a few films soon!

[oshunluvr]

True, but it begs the question: how long before wireless is an ingrained part of our cars and that sort of hack is possible? Sounds like a good action-movie plot item!

[Feathers McGraw]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-575...sed-at-defcon/

Scary! They did have physical access to the car though.

[oshunluvr]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-575...sed-at-defcon/

[Feathers McGraw]

Cars have already been hacked to a degree. Fortunately in my case - windows is limited to blue tooth attached to my radio and steering wheel buttons. Actually, the issue to me wasn't that it was MS per se, rather that the software used is incompatible with the cast majority of devices it was intended to be used with. Clearly a product placement decision based on money rather than an actual consumer benefit.

Does anyone remember the Audi 80 sedan auto-acceleration incidents in the 80's? Our cars are already computer controlled and have been for more than 30 years, and AFAIK none of the software used is FOSS. I remember taking my 1996 Volvo in to the dealer because of a rough idle. The service receipt stated "...software updated..."

This is totally off-topic, but there's already been a successful test of highway automation of autos. It was tested on the commuter bypass lanes in San Diego on I-15 back in the late-90's. Half-a-dozen sedans at speeds in excess of 90mph at around a foot apart racing down the freeway. It was a very cool sight.

Yeah I take your point, I'm sure you could stop the car and various other annoying things by messing with the electrical systems. However, when it gets to the stage where you plug in your destination and the car drives you there itself... that's when I'd insist on open source software in control. I find the prospect of hidden features / backdoors in something like that pretty scary.

The diagnostics for cars are a bit of a racket from what I've heard - the tools required to check the electrical components are very expensive, and I bet it's not because of the hardware, it'll be the proprietary software that comes with it.

[oshunluvr]

Cars have already been hacked to a degree. Fortunately in my case - windows is limited to blue tooth attached to my radio and steering wheel buttons. Actually, the issue to me wasn't that it was MS per se, rather that the software used is incompatible with the cast majority of devices it was intended to be used with. Clearly a product placement decision based on money rather than an actual consumer benefit.

Does anyone remember the Audi 80 sedan auto-acceleration incidents in the 80's? Our cars are already computer controlled and have been for more than 30 years, and AFAIK none of the software used is FOSS. I remember taking my 1996 Volvo in to the dealer because of a rough idle. The service receipt stated "...software updated..."

This is totally off-topic, but there's already been a successful test of highway automation of autos. It was tested on the commuter bypass lanes in San Diego on I-15 back in the late-90's. Half-a-dozen sedans at speeds in excess of 90mph at around a foot apart racing down the freeway. It was a very cool sight.

[Feathers McGraw]

Heh. Good point.

On a serious note, if we ever move to cars that are fully computer controlled, then the software had better be free (libre!!).

I don't want any nasties hidden in the software that could kill me, and I wouldn't accept driving a computer controlled car if it meant I (/we) had less freedom to instruct them to do what I (/we) wanted, by altering the software.

Feathers

[SteveRiley]

No kidding. I'm amazed that some engineer actually thought it was a good idea to limit functions to a small user base.

Imagine, for a moment, that cars could dock with netbooks running Windows. Nobody patches Winodws! OMFG! With that Typhoid Mary of an OS controlling zillions of cars, it'll be CARnage (yuk yuk) on the highways! So, instead, $CAR-MFGR only docks with netbooks running Linux. Linux is much less of an attacker target. Ah, now we can relax.

Shall we rephrase the above?

Imagine, for a moment, that cars could dock with phones running Android. Nobody patches Android! OMFG! With that Typhoid Mary of a mobile OS controlling zillions of cars, it'll be CARnage (yuk yuk) on the highways! So, instead, $CAR-MFGR only docks with phones running Windows. Malware on Windows phones is practically nonexistent. Ah, now we can relax.

/punk'd

[Roguehorse]

I was dismayed to find out some of the cooler features of my new car's bluetooth required a Windows phone. I wonder how much MS had to pay Chrysler for that little promo. Fortunately, the uses I actually need - like my phone call history and dialing directory - worked right after the first software update. Likely, someone pointed out to some Chrysler wonk that no one actual uses Windows phones - just the celebs in the commercials!

No kidding. I'm amazed that some engineer actually thought it was a good idea to limit functions to a small user base. It seems kind of backwards to me since we are all aware of how hardware companies all focus on development to support Microsoft since the are the primary desktop (for now) then we see this kind of thing roll out of auto manufacturers who know that Android is the primary mobile device software. Makes me wonder who's getting the kickback?

[oshunluvr]

I was dismayed to find out some of the cooler features of my new car's bluetooth required a Windows phone. I wonder how much MS had to pay Chrysler for that little promo. Fortunately, the uses I actually need - like my phone call history and dialing directory - worked right after the first software update. Likely, someone pointed out to some Chrysler wonk that no one actual uses Windows phones - just the celebs in the commercials!

[Feathers McGraw]

I do have a problem with the way they have and are forcing OEM's to refuse to sell hardware without OS and HW manufacturers to not supply the required interfaces for other than MS OS'es.

Absolutely.

This is one of the areas where the EU can actually do us some good. Small government isn't going to stand up to a company with loads of cash like Microsoft, it takes a large state to be strong enough to resist the influence of large corporations and rule that such practices are illegal.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of baggage that comes with a large state. Personally, I'd rather lose money through the inefficiency that goes with the public sector and have it go into employees' pockets, than lose an equivalent amount of money to the private sector and have it creamed off by the CEO of some evil corporation.

Feathers