Where can I get Advice about Wireless Routers?

[CayleyGraph]

Hello, all.

I've been having trouble with my wireless router ever since I bought it. I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this sort of question, but I figured that it would be a good place to find reliable advice on finding a good forum.

When I connect my desktop to pass through it to my cable modem, I very frequently have problems accessing web pages. The exact problem is that I'll request a URL, and my browser will display the page loading animation for a while without making any progress. I quickly learned that resending the request would usually result in the page coming up with no problem. I realize that this is sometimes a problem with the server I'm accessing, but when I don't have my wireless router hooked up, I rarely have this problem. By contrast, when my router is hooked up, this happens several times per hour when I'm browsing the Internet. It reached the point where I decided to simply disconnect my wireless router when I don't need it, and only hook it up when there's a wireless device I want to download something to (phone, handheld game device).

The problem could be inherent in the router, since I bought a cheap one. Specifically, a D-Link DIR-601 N150.

I also know very little about networking, so I did minimal setup beyond picking an encryption method and a password. There could be some networking settings I could choose that would make this problem disappear. This would be the preferred method, since I'm still tightfisted.

Anyway, if anyone here could give me advice on where to ask for help, or else give advice on the router directly, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

[SteveRiley]

A couple clarifying questions:

1. When the router is out of the picture, is your desktop connected directly to your cable modem via an Ethernet cable?
2. When the router is hooked up, are there any other devices connected besides your desktop and phone and game device?

Good forums for this stuff include Small Net Builder and Tom's Hardware. However, if you don't mind, I'd like to work with you here, too.

Assuming the answer to #1 is yes and to #2 no, please try a couple things.

One time only: install the traceroute utility:

sudo apt-get install traceroute

Now, with the computer connected to the cable modem, show the output of these commands:

ifconfig

route -n

traceroute 4.2.2.1

Next, place the wireless router the way you normally do. Run the same three commands again, and post the output.

[GreyGeek]

And, in addition to what Steve said, check out this post:
http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthr...l=1#post329322

[CayleyGraph]

Hello, SteveRiley and GreyGeek. Thank you for your help. Sorry for the long delay.

I ran the commands SteveRiley suggested with and without the router attached, and this is what I got.

Without router:

$ ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 90:2b:34:33:bf:47  
          inet addr:24.196.90.53  Bcast:24.196.91.255  Mask:255.255.254.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::922b:34ff:fe33:bf47/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:1732071 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:1453185 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:1
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:281917079 (281.9 MB)  TX bytes:962911246 (962.9 MB)

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:65536  Metric:1
          RX packets:83459 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:83459 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:5854893 (5.8 MB)  TX bytes:5854893 (5.8 MB)
                                                                                                                    
wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 30:85:a9:38:94:4a                                                             
          UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1                                                                
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0                                                        
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0                                                      
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000                                                                              
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)                                                                    
                                                                                                                    
$ route -n
Kernel IP routing table                                                                                             
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface                                       
0.0.0.0         24.196.90.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0                                        
24.196.90.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.254.0   U     1      0        0 eth0                                        
169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth0                                        

$ traceroute 4.2.2.1
traceroute to 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets                                                       
 1  10.135.192.1 (10.135.192.1)  6.664 ms  6.999 ms  6.994 ms                                                       
 2  dtr01ftbgwi-tge-0-6-0-3.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.25.58)  7.391 ms  7.386 ms  7.378 ms                         
 3  crr01ftbgwi-tge-0-3-0-10.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.108)  9.548 ms crr01ftbgwitge-0-4-0-10.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.110)  7.362 ms crr01ftbgwitge-0-3-0-11.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.72)  9.541 ms                    
 4  crr01euclwi-tge-0-1-0-4.eucl.wi.charter.com (96.34.16.77)  14.792 ms  14.794 ms  18.658 ms                      
 5  bbr01euclwi-tge-0-1-0-0.eucl.wi.charter.com (96.34.2.144)  23.006 ms  22.989 ms  23.370 ms                      
 6  kcm-edge-18.inet.qwest.net (72.164.236.237)  53.960 ms  40.305 ms  27.465 ms                                    
 7  dap-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (67.14.2.89)  39.036 ms  39.301 ms  39.033 ms                                        
 8  ae5.edge2.dallas3.level3.net (4.68.63.49)  39.280 ms  39.387 ms  39.015 ms                                      
 9  ae-4-90.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.200)  39.810 ms ae-3-80.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.136)  39.804 ms ae-4-90.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.200)  38.987 ms                                                    
10  a.resolvers.level3.net (4.2.2.1)  39.351 ms  38.971 ms  39.765 ms

With Router:

$ ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 90:2b:34:33:bf:47  
          inet addr:192.168.0.101  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::922b:34ff:fe33:bf47/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:331 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:85 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:1
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:44943 (44.9 KB)  TX bytes:12552 (12.5 KB)

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:65536  Metric:1
          RX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:72 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:19882 (19.8 KB)  TX bytes:19882 (19.8 KB)

wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 30:85:a9:38:94:4a  
          UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

$ sudo route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
0.0.0.0         192.168.0.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0
169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth0
192.168.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     1      0        0 eth0

$ traceroute 4.2.2.1
traceroute to 4.2.2.1 (4.2.2.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  0.278 ms  0.643 ms  0.639 ms
 2  10.135.192.1 (10.135.192.1)  10.172 ms  10.574 ms  10.574 ms
 3  dtr01ftbgwi-tge-0-6-0-3.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.25.58)  10.967 ms  10.968 ms  11.337 ms
 4  crr01ftbgwi-tge-0-3-0-11.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.72)  11.332 ms crr01ftbgwi-tge-0-4-0-11.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.76)  20.892 ms crr01ftbgwi-tge-0-4-0-10.ftbg.wi.charter.com (96.34.18.110)  20.487 ms
 5  crr01euclwi-tge-0-5-0-0.eucl.wi.charter.com (96.34.17.156)  19.145 ms  18.665 ms  19.121 ms                     
 6  bbr01euclwi-tge-0-0-0-2.eucl.wi.charter.com (96.34.2.150)  21.441 ms  17.226 ms  21.898 ms                      
 7  kcm-edge-18.inet.qwest.net (72.164.236.177)  28.454 ms  28.694 ms  28.695 ms                                    
 8  dap-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (67.14.2.89)  44.505 ms  44.492 ms  44.491 ms                                        
 9  ae5.edge2.dallas3.level3.net (4.68.63.49)  44.084 ms  44.883 ms  44.873 ms                                      
10  ae-1-60.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.8)  43.444 ms ae-2-70.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.72)  45.258 ms ae-4-90.edge3.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.69.145.200)  44.841 ms                                                       
11  a.resolvers.level3.net (4.2.2.1)  44.839 ms  45.233 ms  45.203 ms

I haven't tried GreyGeek's suggestion yet, because I only just now reconnected the router and haven't run into the problem yet. When I do, I'll check my syslog for the error message. However, if that is what happens, I'm not sure what to do, because none of the files in /etc/modprobe.d/ look like wireless router configuration files.

Thank you for your help.

[SteveRiley]

All that output looks boringly normal.

I haven't tried GreyGeek's suggestion yet, because I only just now reconnected the router and haven't run into the problem yet. When I do, I'll check my syslog for the error message. However, if that is what happens, I'm not sure what to do, because none of the files in /etc/modprobe.d/ look like wireless router configuration files.

Because you aren't using the wireless NIC in your desktop, none of the information in that other thread applies. (Your desktop has a wireless NIC? That's unusual.) Also, you wouldn't do anything with files in /etc/modprobe.d/ to configure your wireless router. That subdirectory is only for configuring parameters on various kernel modules that your PC loads. To configure your router, you'd navigate to the router's built-in settings URL.

Next time the problem occurs, make a note of the fully-qualified domain name of the web site you're visiting (like www.kubuntuforums.net, for instance). Run the following command, and reply here with the output:

tracepath [i]fqdn-of-site[/i]

This will show whether you might encountering path MTU problems.

[HalationEffect]

There's a quick and easy way to check if the default setting of 1500 is the right MTU setting (it usually is) for your internet connection:

ping -s 1472 -M do www.kubuntuforums.net

(It will keep pinging until you tell it to stop. To make it stop, hold down CTRL and tap the letter C on your keyboard)

The "-s 1472" flag sets the packet size to 1472 bytes (it's 28 bytes less than 1500 because IP + ICMP overhead is 28 bytes per packet), and "-M do" tells the ping command to NOT silently do MTU discovery and automatically fragment the packet if needed.

If the output is a screenful of errors that mention 'Frag needed and DF set', then you probably need to reduce your MTU setting(*). Finding the right setting is a process of trial and error involving running that ping command again and again, with a slightly lower number for the packet size each time, until you find the highest number that doesn't give a screenful of errors. Then you add 28 to that number and you have your optimum MTU setting.

(*) If your internet connection is PPPoE (uncommon but not unheard of), you may need to reduce the packet size to 1464 or lower to get an error-free ping result.

Source: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/tweaks/4._MTU

[CayleyGraph]

Thanks for your quick replies. I tried the ping command and didn't get anything that looked like error messages:

$ ping -s 1472 -M do www.kubuntuforums.net
PING www.kubuntuforums.net (173.255.193.141) 1472(1500) bytes of data.
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=1 ttl=46 time=50.8 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=2 ttl=46 time=52.3 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=3 ttl=46 time=51.0 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=4 ttl=46 time=52.6 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=5 ttl=46 time=51.0 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=6 ttl=46 time=50.7 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=7 ttl=46 time=51.1 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=8 ttl=46 time=52.2 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=9 ttl=46 time=51.2 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=10 ttl=46 time=50.6 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=11 ttl=46 time=51.1 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=12 ttl=46 time=50.1 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=13 ttl=46 time=51.3 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=14 ttl=46 time=50.0 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=15 ttl=46 time=54.2 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=16 ttl=46 time=51.4 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=17 ttl=46 time=50.2 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=18 ttl=46 time=51.6 ms
1480 bytes from li203-141.members.linode.com (173.255.193.141): icmp_req=19 ttl=46 time=50.4 ms
^C
--- www.kubuntuforums.net ping statistics ---
19 packets transmitted, 19 received, 0% packet loss, time 18023ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 50.012/51.307/54.275/1.004 ms

Output of tracepath to follow.

[SteveRiley]

Please try the suggested ping command, and tracepath, to a site that's causing you problems. Presumably, www.kubuntuforums.net is not one of these.

[CayleyGraph]

Please try the suggested ping command, and tracepath, to a site that's causing you problems. Presumably, www.kubuntuforums.net is not one of these.

Ah, it seems I wasn't clear about the nature of the problem. It's not specific sites that give me trouble; as far as I can tell, any site will give trouble at random. So far, www.kubuntuforums.net hasn't given me grief, but that's probably because I don't check it often. That's why I think it's a problem with the wireless router I've connected between my desktop and my cable modem, and not just problems with the servers I'm trying to access.

The tricky part, of course, is that the problems aren't consistent in the least, and are usually fairly sparse... just not so sparse that I'm comfortable ignoring them.

Thank you for your help.

[SteveRiley]

In that case, it's safe to say the problem lies somewhere in the router. That sucker sells for $22 on Amazon and $25 on NewEgg; it has garnered a not insignificant share of reports similar to yours. I'd adivse that you trash it and invest in a decent box. After burning through a crap-ton of crappy consumer gear, I splurged on some Cisco small-biz stuff two years ago. That was one of the wisest home networking choices I've made.

[oshunluvr]

What gear to you use at home Steve? I love my new Asus RT-AC66U router and my Trendnet TEG-S24Dg switch. I barely scrape the surface of the options and functions the router has, but I'm moving next year and wanted the best I could get to take with me. I presume I will have an AC class device in the next year or two so I hope the router lasts.

@CayleyGraph: If you're back in the market for a better router, put together a $100 and try an Asus RT-N56U. Tons of features and solid performance. If you still want to stay in the $40 range look for a good used or refurb WRT54G. I had one of the earliest models for 8 years, gave it to my son when I didn't need it, any longer and he's still using it happily. Make sure you get one of the versions (there are several iterations of this unit G, GS GL, GX. etc and dozens of models of each version) that supports Tomato firmware.

[SteveRiley]

What gear to you use at home Steve?

My switch is a Cisco SG300-10. I got that because I wanted to play around with some layer 3 switching stuff. Honestly, for a home network, that's overkill. An SG200-8 is good enough.

My router is a Cisco RV220W with the wireless radio switched off. At the time, no small biz type wired router had a fast enough WAN-to-LAN throughput that would match my Comcast bandwidth. If I were to buy now, I'd get an RV042G instead (not the RV042-without-G).

[oshunluvr]

I didn't figure I needed a managed switch and I needed at least 16 ports so I went with what I got. I don't really know how much power is actually saved, but the advert sold me, lol.

[SteveRiley]

I didn't figure I needed a managed switch and I needed at least 16 ports so I went with what I got. I don't really know how much power is actually saved, but the advert sold me, lol.

The SG200 line has switches with more than 8 ports.

802.3az and Green Ethernet don't really save much energy. SmallNetBuilder examined the claims a few years ago and measured average reduction from 2 W to 1 W per port. You'll save a lot more energy shutting off computers and monitors, really.

[kdeputer]

What gear to you use at home Steve? I love my new Asus RT-AC66U router and my Trendnet TEG-S24Dg switch. I barely scrape the surface of the options and functions the router has, but I'm moving next year and wanted the best I could get to take with me. I presume I will have an AC class device in the next year or two so I hope the router lasts.

@CayleyGraph: If you're back in the market for a better router, put together a $100 and try an Asus RT-N56U. Tons of features and solid performance. If you still want to stay in the $40 range look for a good used or refurb WRT54G. I had one of the earliest models for 8 years, gave it to my son when I didn't need it, any longer and he's still using it happily. Make sure you get one of the versions (there are several iterations of this unit G, GS GL, GX. etc and dozens of models of each version) that supports Tomato firmware.

I use Tomato on my Linksys WRT54GL now. If I ever buy an 'N' router, I'll want to get one that is compatible with OpenWRT or DD-WRT. Not sure if the new routers can be used with Tomato.