Probably the best explanation of why guns are an important part of America

[claydoh]

I wonder why some (or most) of the focus on guns are on the so-called and undefined "assualt weapon", where it seems to to be clear to me that handguns are what should be highly regulated. There are plenty of hunting rifles and shotguns that pack more punch than these testosterone styled jobs. Let all the potheads out of the prison-industrial complex we have and if we want to keep that system going, fill em up with gun violators, with longer sentences.

Now I know that rifles may not be semi-automatic or have large clips or magazines, but look at the armed crimes committed and I venture to say that handguns might just be the popular tool.

I think a good compromise might be stricter handgun regulation of some sort. I also think if the people really wanted to ban all of them, the constitution can always be amended. No one seems to want to do the work. Look at what we did in 1919 with alcohol. Why would this be any more difficult to accomplish?

I will also say, that I really do not care how other countries do things, I seldom if ever criticize how things are done in other places. One of my pet peeves is comparing statistics of a solitary smaller country like Norway to the entirety of the US.

[james147]

Also coming from the UK, a county where guns and all weapons are illegal I also do not understand why people would want to own a gun.

The only thing you gain by outlawing the personal possession of guns, is ensuring that those who don't obey the law anyway, are the only ones (other than the 'trustworthy' Government authorities) who will have guns.

Not true, guns are illegal here and I have never ever seen a gun in my life... Big time criminals.gangs might be able to get their hands on them, but small time ones that you would encounter wont... It is just too much of a risk to be found with one. Hell, you don't even see people carrying knives around here (which are also illegal if more then 3" or locking blades). Do I feel unsafe? hell no, I know that no one carries a gun, so have a much better chance at defending myself from an attack. And the guns that are around tend to be used agienst other gangs or people related to gangs rather then jsut random people like the US seems to suffer from.

The one time that I think some one tried to mug me I just walked right by him... he was threatening me with an invisible knife as far as I could tell even if he had a knife, I could have run. Not saying all encounters are like this, but it is rare to actually be much worst... where as when I watch American TV I am always seeing people being held up or killed by a gun during a mugging not saying this is common, I cannot really comment on that but it seems common enough to be used allot in movies... (I cannot even think of one British show that shows a mugging here never mind someone being killed from one).

Guns provide a false sense of security. For all the security that Americans feel they have with guns, just last week 20 small children were slaughtered in a school. A few months ago dozens of people were shot up in a movie theater. The CDC predicts that within the next few years, gun deaths with exceed deaths from traffic accidents. The US has the highest gun related incident rate of any developed country. You feel safe because you think you are in control if you have a gun. In reality, you have no more control than an unarmed person does in nearly every situation. Guns are a plague and Im glad I live in a country where they are outlawed.

I agree with this. So many times I have heard of a school getting shot up and many people killed due to some idiot with a gun? Your (not you whatthe****, the people who are pro guns) solution, don't give idiots guns? Then they will get them from the lesser idiots and still have them... Your other solution, give guns to more people, then more idiots have guns... Freely available guns (aka non illegal private guns) will always result in some idiot getting their hands on one. At least here I know the idiots cannot get hold (yes, I KNOW they cannot get hold of them, not saying no one can, but the people who do the things I see on the news cannot as they are not smart/responsible enough to not get caught how do I know this? Well, I don't think we have had any school shootings in the UK ever).

The major problem the US has now is it cannot get rid of them... at least not in the next 50 years or so...

First it needs to convince its people that owning a gun IS bad/stupid... which seems to be starting to happening, it is just a shame that so many children have to lose their lives for people to start to think this...

Then it needs to start fighting the companies that make money from this madness... they are not going to give up without a fight...

Then the needs to start getting rid of the millions of guns people own that are not going to want to give them up...

Then it needs to outlaw them...

Non of that is going to be easy and skipping to the outlawing stage what some of the pro gun people say will happen might happen (not everything, not even most things) most notable, that guns will first move into the hands of criminals and out of the hands of citizens... The only way to stop this is to make it hard to get hold of them first.

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

It is still far safer to live here then in the US. The problem here is gangs, not the lack of guns. Violence have been on the rise for along time here... this is partly due to a number of reasons, increase in population and increase in crime reporting have both lead it seeming that violence in the UK is increasing more then it actually is. Though I admit that those stats higher then these can account for... but I still do not think this validates your views on owning a gun.

History of Gun Control in the 20th Century <<< This one should give everyone nightmares, because it's all true!

This was is actually quite funny... Do they really think that lawful guns would have made that much of a difference?

I think that during the world wars that many Jews would have still been killed as they didn't have any reason to fight back at the time, they where lead to the concentration camps through subterfuge and trickery which is why they did not fight back that hard. That article makes it sound like if they had guns they would have been fine... this is an outright lie... there was allot of effort by the Natzies to hide what the concentrations camps where for as long as they could if they did not the Jews would have rioted with or without guns and could have won either way (they had enough numbers).

There is far more to those stories then "who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated" as when there are that many people being "rounded up", they can defend themselves, the problem is that they did not for one reason or another and there is far more going on then that article actually shows (this is what I think that article is a joke, I don't think what happened is in any way funny)

[whatthefunk]

I just read that the NRA has suggested that every school have an armed guard. What kind of country has paramilitary units at schools? Americans need to sit down and consider the real costs of all these guns, without the NRA which receives millions from the gun industry and has everything to gain from more gun violence.

[Snowhog]

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[arochester]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The UK is not a free state? France is not a free state? Sweden is not a free state. Etc. Etc. Spot the Militia. There is none.

Want a bear arms? Join the Army?

[Goeroeboeroe]

I'm not an American, so I think my opinion is not that important. As an European I'm completely used to guns etc. being illegal, just like a lot of Americans are used to the opposite. So it's pretty hard for me to understand this right to have weapons. Just like the opposite for a lot of Americans, I guess. I'm in favor of a very strict weapon control, that should come as no surprise. But even if you don't agree with that, I've two things I really don't understand.
* How on earth can people divide humanity in two kind of people: completely good and completely bad. Okay, so you put a weaponed guard in every school. And how do you want to prevent that guard from running mad? Who guarantees the 'good guys' are always good? Here in the Netherlands we've had a few policemen murdering the last few years. About two years ago a policeman raped and murdered a young child. About half a year ago a policeman (with a pretty high position) murdered two people and killed himself because of something with a drug deal that went wrong.
If you put an armed guard in every one of the many thousands of schools etc, or even worse: arm every teacher. There must be hundreds of thousands of teachers. How do you know nobody of that very big group of people is starting to shoot with his own weapon? Of course that can happen all the time, but if I run crazy at least I first have to buy a weapon. And before I can do that, I first have to find out where I can buy a weapon. Pretty big chance I change my mind during that time.
* I don't agree, but I can understand people want a weapon for self defense. But why the hell do you need heavy automatic weapons for self defense? ? ? If it's only for self defense, I think a 'normal' simple gun or pistol should be enough. Why do you need lots of automatic weapons?The police here is armed and use their weapons regularly. But normal police here has a very simple pistol, nothing more. (There are of course special units with heavier arms.) If this is enough for police, shouldn't it be enough for everybody/

[Snowhog]

I am not against 'reasonable' gun controls. I firmly believe in the U.S. Constitutions 2nd Amendment which reads

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,..."
is the most important right guaranteed to it's citizens.

But, citizens who have proven themselves to be 'unstable' or who have otherwise demonstrated through their own actions, that they are a menace to the society in which they live, should be stripped of this right.

I am against gun registration, and will never stand for it. I don't have a problem with a waiting period while a background check is conducted however.

[whatthefunk]

The only thing you gain by outlawing the personal possession of guns, is ensuring that those who don't obey the law anyway, are the only ones (other than the 'trustworthy' Government authorities) who will have guns.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." [ Thomas Jefferson ]

There are so many flaws with the top argument that I dont even know where to begin.

The Jefferson quote has absolutely no relevance. The government does not fear citizens with handguns. A group of citizens with handguns stand zero chance of inflicting harm against the US military with their tanks, planes, and warships.

Guns provide a false sense of security. For all the security that Americans feel they have with guns, just last week 20 small children were slaughtered in a school. A few months ago dozens of people were shot up in a movie theater. The CDC predicts that within the next few years, gun deaths with exceed deaths from traffic accidents. The US has the highest gun related incident rate of any developed country. You feel safe because you think you are in control if you have a gun. In reality, you have no more control than an unarmed person does in nearly every situation. Guns are a plague and Im glad I live in a country where they are outlawed.

[Qqmike]

Always an interesting subject. As you know, I lean quite Left, and would favor "gun control" (background checks and such, limitations on types, etc.). But I think citizens should be allowed to own 'reasonable' guns. I don't hunt, but own two pistols, am pretty good with them. Someone breaks into my home? Without hesitation, I'd use the gun, maybe both of them.

I can't quite recall the specifics, may have even been said in jest, but I recall some thinking during the cold war period when people feared that maybe somebody like the Russians might try to attack, invade, and occupy the US. The counter to that thinking was, no country would ever want to even try to physically occupy US because the citizens have so many firearms, that managing the populace would be impossible. Some truth in that view, maybe.

There are sicko's everywhere, not just mass murderers but also people who torture animals, fight dogs and roosters, drive drunk for the umpteenth time and injure another round of innocents, steal identities, and so on. We need to pay attention to the psycho-social-educational-family infrastructure of this country.

[arochester]

"To protect themselves from those who would desire to take their 'freedom' or 'property' as their own. Simple as that."

I am 60 years old. I have never met anyone who wanted to take my freedom or property as their own. I would not wish to kill or maim such a person.

I acknowledge that in society there are policemen (mostly unarmed in the UK) and soldiers (e.g. fighting in Afghanistan).

If a burglar came to my house I would telephone the police if I could. Not shoot them.

[Snowhog]

Why should a "responsible" person want to own a gun? To shoot at a target? To preserve "freedom" or "property"by killing the opposition?

To protect themselves from those who would desire to take their 'freedom' or 'property' as their own. Simple as that.

The only thing you gain by outlawing the personal possession of guns, is ensuring that those who don't obey the law anyway, are the only ones (other than the 'trustworthy' Government authorities) who will have guns.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." [ Thomas Jefferson ]

[arochester]

I thought that guns were made to kill people (e.g. warfare) or kill animals (e.g. hunting).

Why should a "responsible" person want to own a gun? To shoot at a target? To preserve "freedom" or "property"by killing the opposition?

1 in 4 people will be mentally ill in their lifetime. Could be you. Could be me. Could be tomorrow. If I was "ill" I would hope that I would be given treatment and not just killed.

There are arguments that say if it wasn't guns it would be knives, sticks or stones. I would rather face any of those rather than an automatic rifle in the hands of a gunman who mostly shoots the bullseye. I think I might have a better chance.

[67GTA]

I was arguing with my mom about this yesterday. There are no laws that could have stopped this from happening regardless of where you stand on the second admendment.

[Snowhog]

It has never been guns that are the problem. Responsible gun owners are never the problem. Guns in the hands of irresponsible people isn't the problem. Irresponsible people are the problem. Always has been. Always will be. Even where possession has been made illegal, the crime rate involving guns doesn't go down.

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

History of Gun Control in the 20th Century <<< This one should give everyone nightmares, because it's all true!

[blackpaw]

Wow, that is one sick twisted piece of crap