Probably the best explanation of why guns are an important part of America

[charles052]

Actually... I am on a similar view to this as I am to guns, I am really looking forward to the day when computers are controlling or at least helping to control cars as there are far to many idiots on the road... A better mass transit system would be even better. I do have a higher tolerance for cars as their primary purpose is not to cause harm like it is for guns but I still don't like so many people driving them. But that is really another debate

Sounds like a nightmare to me. My GPS has tried to take me through New York City from Carlisle, PA to Massachusetts. I took I-84 instead and probably saved hours fighting traffic. Computers don't have common sense like people.

But that's another debate.

[tek_heretik]

And this...

[HalationEffect]

This thread has been far too serious....



Let's hope that lightens the tone a bit

[james147]

yes we can carry knives hear in the US most places limit the size however ,,,,,,,,,,, I think it's 4" blade no switch blades ,,,,,,,,but heck the carotid artery is only 1/4" beneth the skin under the left ear and will bleed you out in 3 minutes so 4" is over kill

VINNY

Hmm, here is is 3" and the blades must be non locking folding blades. And even then you are not normally allowed to carry them in day to day life (camping, fishing etc is ok, or if you have a job that needs them).

There are quite a few places like that on the human body, but you would need to know where it is, and hit it. And I find most criminals lack the knowledge and skills to worry to much about it.

[vinnywright]

yes we can carry knives hear in the US most places limit the size however ,,,,,,,,,,, I think it's 4" blade no switch blades ,,,,,,,,but heck the carotid artery is only 1/4" beneth the skin under the left ear and will bleed you out in 3 minutes so 4" is over kill

VINNY

[james147]

Cars kill more unborn, babies, infants, children, mothers, and old people that any other mechanical cause of death. Don't you think its time we outlawed private ownership of cars and set up an effective mass transit system like Europe and Japan have?

Actually... I am on a similar view to this as I am to guns, I am really looking forward to the day when computers are controlling or at least helping to control cars as there are far to many idiots on the road... A better mass transit system would be even better. I do have a higher tolerance for cars as their primary purpose is not to cause harm like it is for guns but I still don't like so many people driving them. But that is really another debate

One interesting thing I would like to see, is the same stats displayed from the UK (or another country that out laws guns AND knives) to see how they compare. I am guessing that knives are also legal to carry around in the US as well? If do then this is not a fair comparison against the reasons for/against guns being outlawed to carry around they really need to be companied to a country that outlaws them to see a true comparison.

Note, for simplicity I say for/against guns being legal but I really mean the carrying of them around in public.

[GreyGeek]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

[vinnywright]

their ya go lets outlaw motor vehicles thay rank higher on the list !!

VINNY

[GreyGeek]

The source of the best statistics on the causes of death is the CDC, which uses the cause of death listed on death certificates, not data cherry picked from anti-gun research.

This data is collected from actual death certificates for the TEN years from 1999 through 2010.

Dataset: Underlying Cause of Death, 1999-2010
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics.
Underlying Cause of Death
1999-2010 on CDC WONDER Online Database, released 2012.
Data for year 2010 are compiled from the Multiple Cause of Death File
Accessed at http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html on Dec 19, 2012 1:49:44

29,176,040	100.0%
7,884,340	27.0%
6,714,673	23.0%
2,603,045	8.9%
1,778,116	6.1%
1,542,351	5.3%
856,957	2.9%
799,829	2.7%
713,702	2.4%
521,504	1.8%
491,758	1.7%
405,025	1.4%
396,354	1.4%
383,281	1.3%
364,483	1.2%
338,293	1.2%
329,463	1.1%
276,867	0.9%
270,400	0.9%
241,178	0.8%
222,012	0.8%
201,634	0.7%
167,827	0.6%
166,919	0.6%
166,716	0.6%
148,282	0.5%
133,361	0.5%
124,280	0.4%
103,385	0.4%
77,217	0.3%
75,474	0.3%
61,825	0.2%
55,412	0.2%
52,724	0.2%
49,762	0.2%
44,179	0.2%
42,621	0.1%
39,736	0.1%
37,090	0.1%
32,951	0.1%
31,946	0.1%
25,268	0.1%
24,614	0.1%
19,821	0.1%
19,706	0.1%
19,137	0.1%
17,322	0.1%
13,959	0.0%
13,164	0.0%
12,111	0.0%
8,689	0.0%
8,287	0.0%
8,159	0.0%
8,078	0.0%
7,321	0.0%
5,690	0.0%
5,172	0.0%
4,163	0.0%
2,689	0.0%
1,692	0.0%
1,461	0.0%
1,196	0.0%
451	0.0%
395	0.0%
191	0.0%
138	0.0%
81	0.0%
68	0.0%
35	0.0%
10	0.0%

Breaking that 364.583 gun related deaths over 10 years down into specifics:
57.1% of those deaths were self-inflected, mostly suicide.
38.6% were by assaults by others
1.1% were by law enforcement
The rest were by unknown causes

By contrast,
knives causes 31,946 deaths, 74.3% by assaults.
Poisoning caused 383,281 deaths, 18.2% suicides, 1% by assault and the rest accidental
And the winner for the most non-medical causes of death is:
Motor vehicle accidents, 491,758

Cars kill more unborn, babies, infants, children, mothers, and old people that any other mechanical cause of death. Don't you think its time we outlawed private ownership of cars and set up an effective mass transit system like Europe and Japan have?

[james147]

I like guns ,,,,,, I like target shooting and I like a bit of dear meet now and then ,,,,,,,,, why should I not have these things I like ?

and who are you (anyone) to tell me I cant have it .

I don't really have a problem with this, it is people carrying them around on the streets that think it will protect them, so it is mostly handguns and other easily concealed ones I really dislike.

There is a significant difference in culture between Europe and America. Most Europeans were born into serfdom under various tyrannous Kings. It has since morphed into (depending on where you live) a socialist/communist/marxist society. America was born from a rebellious and free spirited group of people. They rejected serfdom, and believed in "rugged individualism". You will never convince the majority of Americans of your point of view(no offense). As far as this subject, you have to agree to disagree. Americans will have another revolution before our guns are taken away.

Non taken, and I understand but it wont stop me from saying what I think in hopes to change someones view.

Here is an interesting chart. The feds always want to ban those "scary looking assault weapons", when they are the lowest on the charts for causes of deaths. It's kind of funny that "hands,feet,fists" killed more than "rifles".

Yeah, I don't disagree that handguns are the problem, and they are the ones that I really don't like people thinking they should be able to carry around where ever they like... Well, I don't like people carrying any guns where ever they like, but handguns are the biggest problem. I don't really mind hunting guns being taken out to hunt as I don't have to worry about them in a town centre.

[GreyGeek]

I found these two youtube videos of comments made by Biden and Reid.

and

But, guess who Pres. Obama will put in charge of going after the guns?

This stuff reminds me of Dianna Feinstein, who introduces gun restriction legislation, and would introduce a total ban if she thought it would pass. She is so against people carrying guns but when she had to walk several blocks through a seedy part of town to get to the hospital to visit her husband SHE carried a handgun! Remember Rosie and her tirade against gun ownership? She had several armed guards protecting her. Nice, if you can afford it. Or, how about that Illinois state senator who was arrested by the TSA for having a gun in his carry on luggage. He was a very vocal advocate of gun control. Is it me, or is their real message "guns for me but not for you"?


But, not all Liberals are for gun control, unless think that gun control is the only defining criteria for being a Liberal:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ncealed-carry/

[67GTA]

james147

There is a significant difference in culture between Europe and America. Most Europeans were born into serfdom under various tyrannous Kings. It has since morphed into (depending on where you live) a socialist/communist/marxist society. America was born from a rebellious and free spirited group of people. They rejected serfdom, and believed in "rugged individualism". You will never convince the majority of Americans of your point of view(no offense). As far as this subject, you have to agree to disagree. Americans will have another revolution before our guns are taken away.

Here is an interesting chart. The feds always want to ban those "scary looking assault weapons", when they are the lowest on the charts for causes of deaths. It's kind of funny that "hands,feet,fists" killed more than "rifles".

[vinnywright]

I like guns ,,,,,, I like target shooting and I like a bit of dear meet now and then ,,,,,,,,, why should I not have these things I like ?

and who are you (anyone) to tell me I cant have it .

VINNY

[GreyGeek]

....
I heard one idea once that a good way to reduce gun related violence is to not restrict the guns, but make the ammo stupidly expensive, that would be a good way to start reducing people using them.

Ammo would be just as easy to come by as gun if it were made "too expensive", and the effect would be that only the rich would be able to afford to defend themselves. Is that what you want?

[james147]

the Chinese are inches away from OWNING the US, they have clearly shown they are not nice or fair

Not sure what you mean by this? Do you not trust your army to defend you successfully if you are invaded?

Come on. Driving tanks in to towns, yeah, I can see, but soldiers (or Big Brother goons as I call them) would still have to do some on foot combat, that is where the personal arms come in, the last stand. It makes no difference what year we are in, the fundamentals are the same, fight your oppressor or die.

You make it sound like the government are going to one day declare their citizens the enemy and start a war on them over night... and that the army are just going to fold and follow them for no good reason.

The only realistic situation I can see is this:

The government does something that really upsets a large part of the population, this causes a large part of the population to start to riot, eventually leading to violet riots. In the US I think this situation would rapidly devolve... with lots of angry armed people the police/military will have to respond with force, probably resulting in gun fights and allot of casualties. In the UK the riots would also turn violet, but I don't see the police truing as quickly to guns or lethal force as quickly as they know the citizens are not as armed.

Shame on you for assuming anyone who argues for firearms rights fits a stereotype , for assuming we do not care.

I am disgusted with both the NRA who do not speak for everyone, as well as those who think that a wholesale ban will do anything.

Shame on all of us for not actually dealing with things.

I am for gun control, but I also do not think a complete ban will solve anything... far to many people in the US already own them. But something needs to be done to reduce the US belief that guns make them safer when walking down the street and are essential in protecting their freedoms. If someone owned a gun and I didn't they could shot me before I could do anything. If I owned a gun and someone else owned a gun then they can still shoot be before I have a chance to do anything, if they only had a knife I have a much better chance of being able to do something to protect myself. So I would rather everyone had less guns as I am less likeable to meet someone with one.

My views are against guns on the street, I do not think there are any situations that this solves. I am not wholly against people owning guns, but I do not think they should be readily available.

I heard one idea once that a good way to reduce gun related violence is to not restrict the guns, but make the ammo stupidly expensive, that would be a good way to start reducing people using them.