new rolling release Mint based on Debian

[woodsmoke]

Re: new rolling release Mint based on Debian

GG's, and other's, mention of the rolling release and "getting behind" on updates being almost impossible to do if not done for 6 months or so synched with something that was fiddling in my head since the discussion of Canada now going to a "metered" internet access.

The question in my mind was:

Let us say that the major industrialized countries go to "metered" internet access, and to save us from being stupid and actually USING the net, the powers that be throttle it down to "almost nothing".

That would, it seems to me, greatly affect the download of anything, such as an .iso, in addition to cutting off all those stupid people's access to pron and also those evil people that "share" things....

So... given that the direct download of a DVD iso would take days would that then lend advantage to the distros that do say, a "net install" that might "get the user up and running with a very truncated OS" but that would slowly build itself in the background(as it were).

And would that, then, also lend advantage to the "rolling release that is automatic". In other words, the user would have to make a choice during the install as to when to have updates installed, like at "midnight" or "at any time in the background".

Just some questions that GREY GEEK caused my head to ache with!!!

woodsmoke

[dibl]

Re: new rolling release Mint based on Debian

Let us say that the major industrialized countries go to "metered" internet access, and to save us from being stupid and actually USING the net, the powers that be throttle it down to "almost nothing".

I really cannot imagine or believe that anyone's goal, except for the occasional bureaucratic control-freak, is to reduce the bandwidth for individual users. The owners of the pipes have the obvious goal of raising their service billings. ISPs have the same goal. Governments are looking for tax revenues, so if they tax it on a percentage basis, then they share the same goal as the fiber owners and the ISPs -- more service revenues generate more tax revenues. My view is that the metering initiative is a new lever, with which to pry more money out of internet users, and nothing more diabolical than that.

[Ole Juul]

Re: new rolling release Mint based on Debian

I really cannot imagine or believe that anyone's goal, except for the occasional bureaucratic control-freak, is to reduce the bandwidth for individual users. The owners of the pipes have the obvious goal of raising their service billings. ISPs have the same goal. Governments are looking for tax revenues, so if they tax it on a percentage basis, then they share the same goal as the fiber owners and the ISPs -- more service revenues generate more tax revenues. . . .

I don't think there is any will to reduce bandwidth, but there is a very strong force from the telcoms to prevent you from using the net for telephone services and anything else which has an internet independent revenue stream. There is also a strong desire by big media to not have you watch shows or listen to music on the net. IOW, the most powerful corporations are not interested in developing the net because they will lose business. To clarify, the Canadian telecoms do not want to lose the $40 per month that they get from the telephone subscription in every house. Note also that the CRTC is basically run by Industry Canada which is what replaced the Department of Transport (DOT), which was our version of the FCC. We don't have an industry independent body overseeing communications.

. . . My view is that the metering initiative is a new lever, with which to pry more money out of internet users, and nothing more diabolical than

Perhaps diabolical is too strong a term, but there certainly are a lot of desirable spinoffs for the controlling groups, and some very undesirable ones for the end user. In relation to this thread for example, I can see this putting a huge dent in open source enthusiasm. In my case, if the download caps were enforced, then an ISO on a DVD would cost me $4 and if I downloaded more than two of those a month, the third one would cost me $40. I certainly wouldn't be doing that very regularly.

[dibl]

Re: new rolling release Mint based on Debian

You make some good points Ole -- I mostly agree.

However, I will also point out that a little bit of individual personal discipline, in engaging the brain for 15 seconds before clicking on the next DVD image, is not an inherently bad thing. Under the present arrangements in my region, there is zero reason to exercise any personal restraint whatsoever.

In other words, if everyone behaved like I do, there's not enough total bandwidth to go around.

[Ole Juul]

Re: new rolling release Mint based on Debian

You make some good points Ole -- I mostly agree.

However, I will also point out that a little bit of individual personal discipline, in engaging the brain for 15 seconds before clicking on the next DVD image, is not an inherently bad thing. Under the present arrangements in my region, there is zero reason to exercise any personal restraint whatsoever.

In other words, if everyone behaved like I do, there's not enough total bandwidth to go around.

I'm with you on personal bandwidth discipline. That is an important point. Much of what is done on the net could be just as well done (usually better) without wasting so much bandwidth on non-communicating bits. I'm personally fine with an under 1Mb bandwidth and even the challenge (and advantage) of a text only world, but that only goes so far. The world of communications is moving toward more bandwidth requirements so that other media such as TV and telephone can be accommodated. This will be cheaper in the long run and makes a lot of sense - assuming one approves of TV. The problem we have at this point in the history of the internet is the difficult transition away from the older model, and the subsequent power struggle. History is just repeating itself here. Anyway, you know all this - I'm just adding this comment for the record here.