Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Nothing wrong with what you've said. *Most* members here are not Kubuntu zealots. It's true that we are here (in KFN) because we do use and support Kubuntu. Sometimes we get a bit defensive, and at times, we (too) allow our emotions to control our hands at the keyboard.

Is Kubuntu 11.04 'perfect'? No. But neither was any prior version of Kubuntu or any other flavor of Linux 'perfect'. Heck, no operating system is perfect (how can they be, when they are designed and built by fallible human beings).

As to 2.) Continued lack of proper commercial hardware driver support. How can that be the fault of the Linux (et al) developers? Commercial hardware manufactures do not have to open-source their drivers or provide their proprietary drivers to Linux at all. When they don't, then Linux developers have to reverse engineer drivers - if they can - that are imperfect at best. That they even attempt/accomplish creating *compatible* (but not full-featured) drivers is a testament to their commitment to the Linux community.

The Kubuntu developers generally do not hang out here in KFN, which is why when bugs/issues/suggestions about Kubuntu are raised by any user, they (should be) directed to the correct places where the developers do 'hang out.'

We here in KFN are 'fans' of Kubuntu. We have a vast range of experience and technical talents. We are all *volunteers* to a varying degree - no on here is paid - and to that end, we try to assist other KFN members in getting the most out of their Kubuntu. Sometimes we succeed, and sometimes we don't, but we try our best.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Posted from my wife's Acer Aspire One AD0521 running Natty from a LiveUSB stick

...
IF KUBUNTU IS TO EVER BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS ALTERNATIVE TO MICROSOFT THEN, THE COMMUNITY HAS TO ASK AND ANSWER SERIOUS ISSUES CONFRONTING IT. Examples of this are;
1.) Next to no marketing promoting this product.

Mark Shuttleworth is good at marketing, which is why Ubuntu rose so quickly into public awareness.
He is not, however, marketing Kubuntu. ANY market share it has is either by coattails or the WOW factor.
Or both. People can do their asking here. If they don't like the answers or Kubuntu they can get a refund. Just supply the sales slip.

2.) Continued lack of proper commercial hardware driver support.

Got some money to pay NVidia to release their specs to a FOSS dev group?

3.) Lack of universal industry software support (even though this has improved greatly.

Support at any level your wallet can afford has been available for years.

4.) Continued lack of consistency by releasing lack-luster product releases from time to time which does hurt the public image.

5.) User friendly software that does not require a knowledge of Linux (Yes, this is dumbing down the process for the general public which has also improved).

KDE4 is a VERY consistent desktop. So is Gnome. A new version isn't the same as being inconsistent.

User friendly? KDE and Gnome could only be more user friendly by sending a cloned copy of Snowhog or Dible with each ISO downloaded. Even Win7 is NOT as friendly as Kubuntu.

Natty is running perfectly on this AD0521 netbook, and so is Unity. Although it isn't my cup of tea, it will work well for those who like it. Most of whom, I suspect, will be new users fresh from their VISTA or Win7 experience which, for some, was probably a costly one as well.

[ronnowoy]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

I would like to answer the comment made from Snowhog. "Is Kubuntu 11.04 'perfect'? No. But neither was any prior version of Kubuntu or any other flavor of Linux 'perfect'. Heck, no operating system is perfect (how can they be, when they are designed and built by fallible human beings)." I never said that Kubuntu 11.04 should be perfect! I know that there are always small amount of bugs after the fact. The key phrase here is small amount. We should strive for perfection even though we know that we will may not achieve it. It is the striving toward an perceived un-attainable goal here that counts. We should not be o.k. with mediocrity.

Another quote here from Snowhog stating, "As to 2.) Continued lack of proper commercial hardware driver support. How can that be the fault of the Linux (et al) developers? Commercial hardware manufactures do not have to open-source their drivers or provide their proprietary drivers to Linux at all. When they don't, then Linux developers have to reverse engineer drivers - if they can - that are imperfect at best." I understand the frustration here but, it does not solve the problem that the community faces in the opposition's argument not to use Linux or more specifically Kubuntu.

Some comments for GreyGeek are not entirely accurate. "Mark Shuttleworth is good at marketing, which is why Ubuntu rose so quickly into public awareness. He is not, however, marketing Kubuntu." In my estimation, he has not been that good at marketing Ubuntu ether, outside of Great Britain. If you ask the majority of general computer users, the vast majority have not even heard of Ubuntu here in the states.

To answer a criticism of GreyGeek's comment, "Got some money to pay NVidia to release their specs to a FOSS dev group?" Maybe? What I mean is that, if it takes a fund-raiser every year to help in the respect to hardware compatibility with the rest of the industry then, we should explore that option. Libreoffice had a fund-raiser to meet their licensing requirements in Germany. Why not at least explore what it would take to make Kubuntu and Unbuntu a more complete product?

I would like to answer a joke from GreyGeek. "ANY market share it has is either by coattails or the WOW factor.
Or both. People can do their asking here. If they don't like the answers or Kubuntu they can get a refund. Just supply the sales slip." There is more truth in this statement than I think even GreyGeek understands. You have illustrated the problem of the type of thinking that allot of Linux users are accustomed to. You are o.k. with a very small market share. Don't you think that the larger the market share, the more supportive users there would be, the more financial and developmental contributions there would be, and in return a more complete finished product that all humanity could enjoy. As for the refund comment, what GreyGeek does not seem to understand is that, if most general computer users could be somewhat assured that they would receive a QUALITY OS product then most individuals would be willing to pay a minimal fee. I know that Mark Shuttleworth promised that he would never charge for this OS but, if it keeps giving the community an excuse to justify a less that best product then maybe, the community should consider charging a small fee for the OS. I would be more than happy to receive a sales slip if I knew that I had an consistent outstanding product!

Just some outside of the box thinking here.

[el_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

KDE and Gnome could only be more user friendly by sending a cloned copy of Snowhog or Dible with each ISO downloaded.

That's an OS I'd pay good money for.

[MoonRise]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Nothing wrong with what you've said. *Most* members here are not Kubuntu zealots. It's true that we are here (in KFN) because we do use and support Kubuntu. Sometimes we get a bit defensive, and at times, we (too) allow our emotions to control our hands at the keyboard.

Is Kubuntu 11.04 'perfect'? No. But neither was any prior version of Kubuntu or any other flavor of Linux 'perfect'. Heck, no operating system is perfect (how can they be, when they are designed and built by fallible human beings).

As to 2.) Continued lack of proper commercial hardware driver support. How can that be the fault of the Linux (et al) developers? Commercial hardware manufactures do not have to open-source their drivers or provide their proprietary drivers to Linux at all. When they don't, then Linux developers have to reverse engineer drivers - if they can - that are imperfect at best. That they even attempt/accomplish creating *compatible* (but not full-featured) drivers is a testament to their commitment to the Linux community.

The Kubuntu developers generally do not hang out here in KFN, which is why when bugs/issues/suggestions about Kubuntu are raised by any user, they (should be) directed to the correct places where the developers do 'hang out.'

We here in KFN are 'fans' of Kubuntu. We have a vast range of experience and technical talents. We are all *volunteers* to a varying degree - no on here is paid - and to that end, we try to assist other KFN members in getting the most out of their Kubuntu. Sometimes we succeed, and sometimes we don't, but we try our best.

+1

[Linkmaster]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Some comments for GreyGeek are not entirely accurate. "Mark Shuttleworth is good at marketing, which is why Ubuntu rose so quickly into public awareness. He is not, however, marketing Kubuntu." In my estimation, he has not been that good at marketing Ubuntu ether, outside of Great Britain. If you ask the majority of general computer users, the vast majority have not even heard of Ubuntu here in the states.

Felt like throwing something in here, go ahead and take a look at this site here:http://www.junauza.com/2010/02/best-...cade-2000.html

I'd like to know how Mr. Shuttleworth had mediocre marketing skills. How can a Linux Distro go from being unknown to taking the number one spot from the best-of-the-best at the time?

As well, I know many people who have heard of Linux, especially Ubuntu[some thought that Linux was Ubuntu]. I asked around NON-'geek' people. So its not unheard of

We here in KFN are 'fans' of Kubuntu. We have a vast range of experience and technical talents. We are all *volunteers* to a varying degree - no on here is paid - and to that end, we try to assist other KFN members in getting the most out of their Kubuntu. Sometimes we succeed, and sometimes we don't, but we try our best.

want to add my own +1 about this

[bsniadajewski]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

KDE4 is a VERY consistent desktop. So is Gnome. A new version isn't the same as being inconsistent.

User friendly? KDE and Gnome could only be more user friendly by sending a cloned copy of Snowhog or Dible with each ISO downloaded. Even Win7 is NOT as friendly as Kubuntu.

IMHO "User-friendliness" is in the eye of the beholder, like beauty. What's user-friendly to one person may not so much to the next. I will agree though that Windows 7, which I have on this system as a dual-boot and working very well (so far), is not as user-friedly as Kubuntu. In fact, the things I miss when I do boot into Win7 is the logout/shutdown widget in the panel and the muliple desktops that I do take advantage of.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

KDE and Gnome could only be more user friendly by sending a cloned copy of Snowhog or Dible with each ISO downloaded.

That's an OS I'd pay good money for.

The line formed behind me!

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

....
The key phrase here is small amount. We should strive for perfection even though we know that we will may not achieve it. It is the striving toward an perceived un-attainable goal here that counts. We should not be o.k. with mediocrity.

You have NO credentials with or knowledge of programming, project development, the GPL or the FOSS community to be making statements like that. Your "small amount" standard and the accusation that FOSS developers are "ok with mediocrity" is arrogant, ignorant and insulting.

...I understand the frustration here but, it does not solve the problem that the community faces in the opposition's argument not to use Linux or more specifically Kubuntu.

You understand nothing and your analysis of "the problem" is bogus. You have NO clue as to what problems Linux has faced since Linus released it to the world under the GPL.

Some comments for GreyGeek are not entirely accurate. "Mark Shuttleworth is good at marketing, which is why Ubuntu rose so quickly into public awareness. He is not, however, marketing Kubuntu." In my estimation, he has not been that good at marketing Ubuntu ether, outside of Great Britain. If you ask the majority of general computer users, the vast majority have not even heard of Ubuntu here in the states.

So you've asked "the majority of computer users" have you? I doubt that. You don't have enough knowledge of programming, marketing, group dynamics in development, maintenance, documentation or support to "estimate" anyone's contributions or abilities.

...... Why not at least explore what it would take to make Kubuntu and Unbuntu a more complete product?

You assume, of course, that in the past no one has ever made such an exploration and that no one is doing it now. You are wrong on both counts.

I would like to answer a joke from GreyGeek. "ANY market share it has is either by coattails or the WOW factor. Or both. People can do their asking here. If they don't like the answers or Kubuntu they can get a refund. Just supply the sales slip." There is more truth in this statement than I think even GreyGeek understands.

The question is not if I understand what I write, it is do YOU understand what I wrote. Apparently not.
I'll be blunt. If you don't like Kubuntu then by all means please make some other distro happy with your presence and insights.

You have illustrated the problem of the type of thinking that allot of Linux users are accustomed to. You are o.k. with a very small market share.

Only you seem to think so.

Don't you think that the larger the market share, the more supportive users there would be, the more financial and developmental contributions there would be, and in return a more complete finished product that all humanity could enjoy.

Is that a question or are you making a statement? (Questions usually end with a "?" character.)

You seem to think that Linux has a small market share. Who gave you that idea? You also seem to think that there is a direct correlation between Kubuntu market share and income. Who gave you that idea?
What part of free don't you understand?

As for the refund comment, what GreyGeek does not seem to understand is that, if most general computer users could be somewhat assured that they would receive a QUALITY OS product then most individuals would be willing to pay a minimal fee.

Where did you pick up that nonsense? People & corporations pay huge fees for Windows and its support, and necessary 3rd party security and stability products, release after release after release, and none of the releases were a "quality OS". Win7 is continuing the heritage of Windows being the primary zombie in massive bot farms.

When I switched from RH 5.0 to SuSE in Sept of 1998 I paid for 22 consecutive boxed sets of SuSE. I paid for the Mandrake and Mandriva versions that I ran, and I donated to the development of PCLinuxOS and contributed to the development of Ubuntu/Kubuntu. You don't have the cred to lecture me about who would pay for a "quality OS".

I know that Mark Shuttleworth promised that he would never charge for this OS but, if it keeps giving the community an excuse to justify a less that best product then maybe, the community should consider charging a small fee for the OS. I would be more than happy to receive a sales slip if I knew that I had an consistent outstanding product!

That is complete, total and utter nonsense!

Just some outside of the box thinking here.

You are more than outside the box, and your head isn't even in the clouds. You are off the planet.

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

I want to make something clear to the Kubuntu team and those of who love what they have accomplished in a short period of time. I love Kubuntu! [...] So, in response to a couple posts ago that said, " It sucks to be you," I say, it must be horrible to be you, a individual in denial and so closed minded.

Well said!

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Is Kubuntu 11.04 'perfect'? No. But neither was any prior version of Kubuntu or any other flavor of Linux 'perfect'. Heck, no operating system is perfect (how can they be, when they are designed and built by fallible human beings).

I don't think most people expect an OS to be "perfect". What they DO expect, though, is that things that worked shouldn't be broken when they upgrade to a new version (or if they are, that this should be acknowledged and fixed as fast as possible).
From what I've read at other places - most recently at OSNews, iirc - this has happened before with (K)Ubuntu. It happened with Mandriva as well - it's frustrating beyond words.
Otherwise, I agree with most of what you said.

[Linkmaster]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

I'm going to state something here over the frustration of how an upgrade is causing some issues.

First off, as GG says, if the upgrade bothers you, go back down. Linux matures with age. Kubuntu is one of the most bleeding edge software out there. Bleeding edge means breakage.

Second thing, Kubuntu isn't exactly a rolling distro. You can roll it up, yes. But when you roll up the distribution, you have to deal with something here. All of Kubuntu's software is designed to fit in a 700MB CD. Okay, 700MB's, we got that? When the developers make a new distribution, they want the best of the best. They can't include everything from previous distributions. Using a rough estimate, I believe that Ubuntu has had 15 releases, and I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm reading this from the forum here, Kubuntu started with 6.06, a LTS version. Well, lets do some simple math here. Kubuntu has released 11 distributions, including 6.06 and 11.04. These are each around 700MB's apiece. If you were take the best of each, include it with the new release, and move on, you get what we have going now. If you were take everything, we'd have an approximate release at 7.7gigs. Something tells me that the developers foresaw this, and decided "hey, to keep size down, lets grab what was good in the last release, chop everything else off, and make it better!" Of course, since everything that isn't a LTS release is basically beta-testing for the next LTS version, if your that unhappy, switch to a LTS.

Third point, when you do upgrade, you still have a bunch of Maverick running around in your Natty release. It doesn't do a system wipe and give you a shiny new thing. You've played around with Maverick, and theres a bunch of libraries floating around the place. You upgrade to Natty, it'll remove the obsoleted libraries, but it doesn't get rid of everything.

Fourth point, why don't you go and give what the developers are doing a whirl? Better yet, to make it easier, grab the code for Maverick, and create a new distribution from it. But make sure that its under 700, new stuff, and not in any way shape or form broken. Seems harder then you thought? Lets make this hypothetical situation a little tougher, by adding in the fact that you have a full-time job, family, kids, a house to maintain, some of them even have small businesses that they call their own.

Fifth point: By saying its beyond frustrating for something to be less then perfect, but then say you don't expect it to be perfect..it sounds like talking out of two sides of a mouth to me. Its one or the other. You realize that nothing in an OS is perfect, that human beings are FAR from perfect, thus what we create is even further from perfection, and perhaps put some of the complaining effort towards helping those that are giving up their free time, orr...as GG says,

The question is not if I understand what I write, it is do YOU understand what I wrote. Apparently not.
I'll be blunt. If you don't like Kubuntu then by all means please make some other distro happy with your presence and insights.

Now, if there is anything presumptious with what I have said, GreyGeek, Snowhog, please correct me. You guys are Kubuntu Veterens, so I value what you say, and I don't wish to be spreading non-truths

**Disclaimer** What I have said was based off of very mild research and what I've pieced together from my own experience, what I've seen veteren users say and do, and simply browsing the web. Unless GreyGeek or Snowhog confirm what I say is extremely valid, don't take it as absolute truth. I am 99% confident that I'm not spouting drivel though

[ronnowoy]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Dear GreyGeek,
I am sorry that I find you so offended at my comments. I guess that maybe I should not contribute any more ideas of input here. As for your comment,"So you've asked "the majority of computer users" have you? I doubt that. You don't have enough knowledge of programming, marketing, group dynamics in development, maintenance, documentation or support to "estimate" anyone's contributions or abilities." I grant you that in the Linux world I am still new compared to you. I migrated from the MS-DOS world. You are a veteran, I am not but, I do have knowledge concerning marketing since I recently graduated fro the University of Washington from business school. I was required to take a certain amount of marketing classes. I don't have the experience that you do in the programming department but, I am not completely ignorant ether!

As for the self-offensiveness from your other comment, "You seem to think that Linux has a small market share. Who gave you that idea? You also seem to think that there is a direct correlation between Kubuntu market share and income. Who gave you that idea?What part of free don't you understand?" Oh, I don't know maybe check out this link (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/oper...ider=1&qprid=8). If the entire Linux world only manages to muster about 1% then how much of that do you think Kubuntu or Ubuntu has of that?

To respond to your other comment, "You are more than outside the box, and your head isn't even in the clouds. You are off the planet." I have been mocked and made fun of for new ideas but, why should I not ask "why" questions. Since you seem to be all-knowing, please enlighten me to your knowledge. When I stop asking questions is when I stop learning. I know that you have a vast amount of knowledge concerning the programming world. I would like to know. :-X

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Ronnowoy, I am not offended as much as I am disappointed that you would think that much of what you claim should be done would not have been already considered by those who develop, support and use Linux. The kernel alone is being developed by over 6,000 coders, 70% of whom are paid by over 600 corporations to do exactly that and nothing else. They do so because it is in their economic interest to do so. They get more in return for using Linux free of charge than they spend in payroll on Linux developers. It is the same in other areas of Linux, like Gnome and KDE. But, of the 30,000 or so apps in the repository, the vast majority of them were thought up, developed and deployed by coders working for no other reason than the love of the craft.
The "Who Wrote Linux?" report can be obtained from here.

Recalling similar statistics from memory (as bad as it is) I recall that roughly 75% of kernel coders have a college degree or above and 14% of those have PhDs in various disciplines.

.....Oh, I don't know maybe check out this link (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/oper...ider=1&qprid=8). If the entire Linux world only manages to muster about 1% then how much of that do you think Kubuntu or Ubuntu has of that? .

That's the kind of statement that marks you as ill-informed. Marketshare's hitlink site is a 3rd party Windows apps sales site. They sell rebranded EXEs under different names to squeeze yet more money out of Windows users. How many Linux users would you expect to visit a site that is funded by the sale of Windows software? I've addressed the claim you repeated in other forums in the past.

Did you know that in 2004 the Linux desktop market share was 4% and was projected by IDC and others to be at 8% by 2008? Guess what? Steve Ballmer gave a talk in February of 2009 which showed market shares at the end of 2008. In that talk he presented a graph of OS desktop market shares which his research department prepared. That graph:

[img width=400 height=303]http://www.osnews.com/img/21035/ballmermacs.png[/img]

was explained by Ballmer:

Much more interesting is Microsoft's idea of Linux and Apple, According to Microsoft, Linux is a bigger threat to the company than Apple, placing Linux above Apple in the marketshare figure pie chart thing.

At the time Apple's market share was 10%. Estimates put Linux at 12%. The full effect of VISTA's fiasco was to drive even more Windows users to Apple and Linux. More to Apple to be sure, but Linux got a lot of Windows users too, You are one of them.

While the Linux desktop market share in the USA is somewhere above 12%, it is larger in other countries, reaching 25%. In servers and hosts market share Linux and FOSS are well above 50%. The large majority of servers hosting the Internet do so on FOSS OS platforms running FOSS software.
This site is in Canada: http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...105/index.html
You can check the various countries and domains to see which platforms are more popular. Netcraft is an American based web tracking company. Their breakdown is different, but you should be aware of the causes. For example, GoDaddy was using Linux for their servers, but after a substantial payment from Microsoft they move their 5,000 plus parking servers to Windows. (Parking servers don't carry traffic, they only offer a place for domain names to "park" until they are resold or picked back up). Google, had well over 10,000 ACTIVE servers dishing out webpages at the time (now they are over 100,000). Netcraft decided to count each GoDaddy server (which weren't serving any pages) as a separate instance of a Windows server on the web. At the same time they counted 10,000 Google servers as only one, and gave a spacious reason for their decision. They pulled similar tricks over the years to make the difference between the number of Internet servers running Windows servers and those running Linux seem as narrow as credulity would allow -- for those not familiar with their accounting tricks.

Now that you know that Windows is on only 15% of the world's hundreds of million internet servers and FOSS drives 70% of them, guess from which OS 99%+ of all the world's malware is launched from?


ronnowoy, you are new to Linux, and coming from a Windows background you probably only visited sites populated by Windows users and funded by Microsoft and it 3rd party "partners". ZDNet and other online mags pay their editors and journalists via revenue from ads paid for by MS and its minions. Microsoft also pays its "Technical Evangelists" to post (it's called "astrotufing") msgs on various forums promoting Microsoft and denigrating Microsoft's competitors. Check out the comes-3096.pdf (from the Microsoft vs Iowa trial) and learn about the "The Stacked Panel", "The Slog" and the "Neutral chairman".

Kubuntu does not charge for the ISO you download, nor does it charge for access to the repositories that hold the vetted 30,000 applications, which you can also download for free. I've mentioned before that I have paid many many times for the distros I've used and if the distro doesn't charge (and they can if they want to) then I donate, in addition to contributing my time and talents (which is the main reason why I volunteered to help on this forum).

A suggestion: your posts would be a lot easier to read and to separate what you write from the sources you quote if you use the quote tags.

[quote=sourcename]
what they wrote
[/quote]

[ronnowoy]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

:P
GreyGeek: I would like to answer some of the issues that you have brought up. Thank you for giving my some data about market share other than what you typically find from searching for it on google. Even if apple has 10%, and Linux at about 12%, then Windows still has at about 78% of the market share (probably a little less with other OS's figured in). I live not too far from Redmond, WA. I am surrounded by critics of Linux. All that I know is that I love the Kubuntu OS! I want to see great things for the Linux community because I believe in what the community represents. I know that there are a large number of programmers working within the Linux community trying to make it a success. All that I am saying is, I know the mindset of average computer users and there expectations of what a OS should be. I have had large amounts of discussions (many working hours) with many computer novice users, and what they are looking for in a ideal OS. Linux has to overcome a huge uphill battle in to overcome the market's pre-conceived bias's toward the Microsoft product. It is what most computer users (In the world) are accustomed to. Yes, even if you doctor the percentages a little higher for Linux and Apple, the majority of the world's desktop and laptop users, uses Microsoft Windows. I get a little passionate when I speak about the possibilities for the Linux community and more specifically Kubuntu. I want the community to succeed! I want others to enjoy what I have enjoyed.

People & corporations pay huge fees for Windows and its support, and necessary 3rd party security and stability products, release after release after release, and none of the releases were a "quality OS". Win7 is continuing the heritage of Windows being the primary zombie in massive bot farms.

By addressing this, I get this non-sense from the fact that I know that Microsoft has made contracts with manufacturers of computers and software. The reason that Windows can get away with not producing a "quality OS" is because, there stack the playing field to their advantage as much as possible while yet, fending off those who would make the "monopoly" legal claims. Microsoft lately has had to make better releases because of the Linux community. COMPETITION makes a better product for all users.

You seem to think that Linux has a small market share. Who gave you that idea? You also seem to think that there is a direct correlation between Kubuntu market share and income. Who gave you that idea?
What part of free don't you understand?

I did a simulation in my Strategic Management course in school. What I learned from that experiment is this; market share is not always the solution to companies problems but, it is a major factor in how competitive any company can be. There is a correlation between market share and income (even though it is not usually direct). Example: let's say that currently (I know these are not the actual numbers) that there are 3 million users world-wide which make up 2% of the world's total market share of computer OS's. Out of those 3 million users, 10% of those users contribute some financial amount of currency, and 20% of those users contribute code and their time to improve the product through development. Now take that number of market share and increase it to 12% of the world's total market share. Keeping the same percentage of contributions from all parties what happens. Well first, the number of total users grow to 18 million users. Secondly, the amount of money that the 10% of users who contribute money are now contributing more money because there are more users in the community, and so on. I understand that this is not a perfect linear world. It is a non-perfect non-linear world. This is still the general idea. The OS is still free but, there are an increase in contributions because of the increasing numbers of users.