Dual Booting With Windows 7

[Qqmike]

Yes, I know. Just a little philosophical humor, otherwise known as being philosophically adept.

[mdiemer]

Yes, I know. Just a little philosophical humor, otherwise known as being philosophically adept.

Gotcha.

I'm glad you're two time zones earlier, Mike.

When I tried to install on the laptop, it threw me a curve I was not expecting. The manual option did not look the same as on my desktop. The drive is 1 TB. The first partition was about 100 MB, and was designated as Windows 7. The next partition was 1 TB. Both were NTFS. Then, weirdly, there was an sdb listed. When I looked at it, it said I had chosen a whole disk, and all partitions would be wiped out if I installed there.

To my knowledge, the drive has never been partitioned except during Windows installation, which I did myself. I have no idea what sdb is here (I know about sdb/sdf/ etc in general, just was not expecting to see that here).

It looks like I need to partition the second NTFS partition, format as ext4 etc, and install there. But I'm uncertain how to do this. Do I put the new space before or after, for example? Will it by default protect Windows? I need more guidance before going any further.

Edit: I'm looking at this tutorial, it looks pretty good. What do you think?

https://www.lifewire.com/ultimate-windows-7-ubuntu-linux-dual-boot-guide-2200653

[mdiemer]

OK, so I fired up Windows and their disk management tool. It showed the usual small 100 MB reserved space, and the main partition was 932 GB. Much simpler than the view in Kubuntu, and much easier to wrap my head around. So, I just shrink the main partition, and that new space becomes my Kubuntu partition. Couldn't be simpler.

I can't figure out what the heck Kubuntu was talking about with sdb. There is only one disk in the laptop. But using windows' tool makes it easy, so that's what I will do. Then I should be able to install on the new partition. I think I'll wait till tomorrow however, as it's approaching midnight here and my eyes are getting bleary.

[Qqmike]

Your conclusions in Post #18 look right and you can proceed as you say.

It looks like I need to partition the second NTFS partition, format as ext4 etc, and install there. But I'm uncertain how to do this. Do I put the new space before or after, for example? Will it by default protect Windows?

Technically, it doesn't matter if Windows is first or second (after Kubuntu), but most people put Windows first and then install Kubuntu after Windows; and installing Kubuntu in the partition following Windows will not affect Windows at all. You are not touching that reserved Windows 100 MBs, so that is good. And you are not messing with the very, very start of the disk--the Master Boot Record, MBR--so that is also good. (The bootloader GRUB will go into that MBR and it will overwrite the Windows bootloader, so GRUB will take over the booting of the laptop. Not to worry, it should go well and work well. And not to worry: if you ever need to restore the Windows bootloader into the MBR to control the booting of that disk, there are Windows tools on the Internet to do so. I am not a Windows guy any more, but this is what the Windows people do and post about.) So, yes, you will shrink the Windows partition down by moving the right endpoint of the Windows partition "to the left." You can do it so the space is 50%-50%, or so Windows is larger, or so Kubuntu is larger. I think I gave Kubuntu just like 250 GB or something like that. Heck, as you know, you can easily run Kubuntu on just 50 GB and have room to store a bunch of stuff like photos etc. In our case here, the spousal unit will never use even 50 GB total.

[oshunluvr]

I can't figure out what the heck Kubuntu was talking about with sdb.

Well, if you're going to become a Linux user you're going to have to accept that many things will be done differently than they were in windows. It's not a value judgement - good vs. bad - but it is the way it is. You'll be a lot better off sooner if you start learning about Linux and how things work/are done. In some ways, that's the whole point of switching to Linux - so you can learn what's actually going on. I'm not suggesting that going to the Windows disk management tool was a bad idea, but IMO you should still

Microsoft Windows, and even more so Apple's OS/x, assume that you're too stupid to know what's going on or god forbid be in control of it. Linux assumes you want to be in control, exposes everything to you, and expects you'll learn what you need to know. It's not hard, but does require some effort. The reward is your system is totally yours, does things the way you want, and doesn't do things you don't.

[Qqmike]

Slight miscommunication here ... No, mdiemer does know some Linux and understands what sdb means, but the KDE Partition Manager showed him this sdb on a single-disk Windows system--there is no second disk installed. I'm guessing that the KDE PM saw something on that Windows disk that triggered that sdb appearance. Now, let's not get into religion (again!) here, but what I do is this: In the live Kubuntu session, open Muon Package Manager and install gparted. It should show up under K > Applications > System as GParted Partition Editor. Then use that. Sometimes KDE PM seems to slip here and there. Others here will protest that that's not true. Anyway, I've always used and fully trusted gparted, fwiw. And, they should almost "be the same" so I'm told by one poster here somewhere.

[Snowhog]

Then, weirdly, there was an sdb listed. When I looked at it, it said I had chosen a whole disk, and all partitions would be wiped out if I installed there.

To my knowledge, the drive has never been partitioned except during Windows installation, which I did myself. I have no idea what sdb is here (I know about sdb/sdf/ etc in general, just was not expecting to see that here).

Well, you were booted to a Live USB, yes? That's a 'hard drive', and would be the second one connected to the laptop. A Partition Manager is going to display all connected drives.

[oshunluvr]

I could be wrong, but if the installed hard drive was being accessed from a live session sdb would be the normal device name for the second disk, the booted USB "disk" being the first. However, you may be right in that I made a false assumption. My point remains the same in any case, the device name assignment is something we, as Linux users, need to learn and understand even when the results are other than we expect (since we're getting religious - expectation is the source of all disappointment ). For example, I had a previous mobo that the BIOS would change the order of the drives and thus the devices names would change depending on what drive was booted and whether or not a USB device was plugging in when I booted. This is one of the main reasons GRUB and fstab use UUIDs instead of device numbers, as they don't change.

[mdiemer]

To respond to all three:

Oshunluvr, yes I do know some Linux, having installed about 15 distros and atone time having 4 of them on my system on three different disks. Neverheless, at my age I don't think I will ever become anything close to expert, so I have no illusions about my level of expertise, and no defensiveness to you comment. Your are in fact correct, I have much to learn.

Snohog: Ah, that must be it, sdb refers to the external drive. I never thoughtof that.

Qqmike: I have used Gparted many times, and in fact fired it up here on the live USB of Kubuntu to compare it to KDE's partition manger. But it was Windows' disktool that allowed me to see most clearly the situation and what I need to do. Also the tutorial on Lifewire really makes sense to me, and is how I plan to proceed. Not that I love Windows. In fact, the constant update madness and various crashes are the reason, along with W7 EOL in one year, I am trying to get the wife to switch to Linux.

I frequently am uncertain where to post. I am not a tota newbie, but still enough of one to need a lot of help sometimes. Maybe I am something like a fairly experienced apprentice at this point. Posting in the newbie section is sure to get me a lot of help. but then folks may assume I am totally clueless, which is not the case. Thus,Oshunluvr's reaction is understandable.

Also,at 67, some days I really am clueless...

[Qqmike]

Also,at 67, some days I really am clueless...

Can relate (at 69 here)! As for needing help, we all need it now and then. Hang around here long enough and you'll see some of the really goofy questions I post now and then.

[Qqmike]

OK, since posting #25, I re-booted with the Kubuntu 18.04.1 live flash drive. I checked with KDE Partition Manager, and, yes, the flash drive was shown there as a device on the left panel (I didn't notice any mention of sdb, but it may have there somewhere). Installed GParted using Muon, checked my drives, and, of course, it also shows the flash drive as sdb in a drop-down list at upper right. Fyi, I also have just one HDD on my system. So, the partition tools do see the live medium you are using as another drive in their list of drives and partitions. Btw, you can see how quickly this went for me -- another neat thing about Linux! In Windows, I'd probably still be dealing with the re-booting.

[Snowhog]

My understanding is that an internal HDD is always going to be sda, even if you are booting from an external USB 'drive'. Similar to how Windows sees things. First internal drive is ALWAYS C:.

[mdiemer]

Your conclusions in Post #18 look right and you can proceed as you say.

Technically, it doesn't matter if Windows is first or second (after Kubuntu), but most people put Windows first and then install Kubuntu after Windows; and installing Kubuntu in the partition following Windows will not affect Windows at all. You are not touching that reserved Windows 100 MBs, so that is good. And you are not messing with the very, very start of the disk--the Master Boot Record, MBR--so that is also good. (The bootloader GRUB will go into that MBR and it will overwrite the Windows bootloader, so GRUB will take over the booting of the laptop. Not to worry, it should go well and work well. And not to worry: if you ever need to restore the Windows bootloader into the MBR to control the booting of that disk, there are Windows tools on the Internet to do so. I am not a Windows guy any more, but this is what the Windows people do and post about.) So, yes, you will shrink the Windows partition down by moving the right endpoint of the Windows partition "to the left." You can do it so the space is 50%-50%, or so Windows is larger, or so Kubuntu is larger. I think I gave Kubuntu just like 250 GB or something like that. Heck, as you know, you can easily run Kubuntu on just 50 GB and have room to store a bunch of stuff like photos etc.

In our case here, the spousal unit will never use even 50 GB total.

Thanks, that's a great help in understanding the situation.

I really appreciate ALL the help everyone is giving here!

Edit: I have bricked windows many times by erasing or deleting the MBR. Fortunately, the Macrium recovery disc fixes that in about 5 seconds.

I also use the Boot Repair Disc for Linux, the one with the sillhouette of someone jumping for joy against a green background. These two discs have been lifesavers for me.

[Qqmike]

Snowhog: Well, you were booted to a Live USB, yes? That's a 'hard drive', and would be the second one connected to the laptop. A Partition Manager is going to display all connected drives.

Yes, mdiemer tested that and for the heck of it, so did I, Post #26.

My understanding is that an internal HDD is always going to be sda, even if you are booting from an external USB 'drive'.

Yes, that's my experience, too. I think that, back in the day, some strange things were observed, back when we (remember dibl here) were all messing with the old GRUB. But personally, I always assume that sda will be as you say, until something proves it to be not so. The weird stuff tends to happen when there is more than one internal HDD, and especially when we mix IDE and SATAs and such.

[Qqmike]

Yes, Boot Repair seems to be a good tool, based on all the positive posts I read about it (I have not used it, except to run it quickly to check it out and check its options and what not).