Ubuntu turns to crowdfunding

[ronw]

It's not a poll, but I join the oshunluvr and Snowhog camp on this one.

Final line in the article claydoh linked to:

"Mark Shuttleworth and the rest of Canonical aren't sending a plea for help but a call to arms, rallying for everyone to join together in support of a greater cause."

Isn't there more to it than 'too risky', 'unlikely/no chance to succeed', 'too expensive'? I hope so.

[Snowhog]

Thank you oshunluvr. Nicely said.

I bought in at the $775 level. I want this endeavor to succeed. I want one of these smart phones and won't deny it. I think the concept behind the Ubuntu Edge; what Canonical is calling convergence, is where smart phone technology has to go. The buying public has, if not overtly or loudly, been calling (no pun intended) for this for quiet some time. The Big Corporate enterprises just don't want to give their public what they want, because, as you pointed out, they want to sell you multiple devices so they can continue to suck more of your dollars out of your wallet.

What this transaction actually is: a Gamble. Canonical is betting they can pull this off if the interest exists. I'm betting the device will live up to expectations or at the very least I can get my money back. Gainsay what you will, but the concept of the Edge is genius. Whether or not they will do it right or or the market is ready for this yet remains to be seen.

Canonical is the one taking the gamble, and that is a salient point. They are risking that their vision to physically produce the Ubuntu Edge, a full-featured convergent smartphone, will actually occur. And keep in mind, they limited themselves to a narrow window of time to raise the funds. Now, what gamble are they taking? Is it financial? Obviously not, as the public is providing the funding to the tune of $32 million dollars. So what is Canonical risking? Their reputation and credibility. But not even that really, as if the fundraising campaign doesn't reach the goal by the deadline, it only means that the Ubuntu Edge, a Canonical patented and owned smartphone doesn't come onto the market. But as contained in the FAQ for the Ubuntu Edge, Canonical says:

If we don’t reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge. All contributions will be fully refunded.

There are going to be two camps, two points of view on this endeavor by Canonical. I (and oshunluvr) seem to be in one, and others seem to be in the other. That's okay. We agree to disagree. Would I like to sway the other camps opinion? Sure. But that's what friendly discourse is about.

[oshunluvr]

All smells aside, I bought in at $675.

I'm not a Canonical fanboi, but I'm not a hater like some of you are either. Mostly I see them as ineffectual, not evil like MicroSith or AppHell (I just made that up!). Steve and I alluded previously to failed/abandoned Canonical projects - the one that sticks out for me was Ubuntu TV or whatever it was called. I stopped paying for TV 2 years ago ( a.k.a. "cutting the cable") and am patiently waiting for more convergence in the home entertainment field. It's happening, but very slowly - that's how they make money doing it.

I see the Edge as a move toward convergence in a different area. Anyone who owns a smartphone knows by now it's really nothing more than a very small computer with a radio in it. As the power of these devices increases, I think phones with the capabilities that the Edge is supposed to have are inevitable. I also think that Samsung, Sony, and Apple among others have a vested financial interest in slowing down the convergence because they'd rather sell me a phone, tablet, and laptop rather than just one of these devices. Why don't tablet's have cell radios? Not enough room or battery power? No. They have bluetooth so I could easily make a call from one. Oh, but then they couldn't wring another $500 out of me for a phone.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade(s), but the math works (for the buyer) on this project. If I can in fact do basic computer stuff (office, internet, email, solitaire - let's face it, that's 95% of what most computers are used for) - like on my $400 Dell laptop, and also do all the cool android stuff - like on my (future) $300 7" tablet, and make phone calls and SMS like I do on my $500 phone, I'm IN. Add the convenience of total portability of function and files it's a good value and a sapphire screen seals the deal.

SIDEBAR: Anyone seen the PhonePad? Only works on Samsung phones for now, but how cool is that idea!

Is this an "investment" for me? No, of course not. Although I did consider buying more than one. Anyone heard of Ebay? IF this phone hits the streets, IMO there will be many people out there who will pay well over cost to get their hands on one. Of course, this too is not guaranteed. I ultimately decided not to buy extras because the potential payoff isn't worth my time. On the other hand, I have virtually no doubt I will be able to get my money back if I don't like it once it's in hand - if I act quickly

What this transaction actually is: a Gamble. Canonical is betting they can pull this off if the interest exists. I'm betting the device will live up to expectations or at the very least I can get my money back. Gainsay what you will, but the concept of the Edge is genius. Whether or not they will do it right or or the market is ready for this yet remains to be seen.

Frankly, I suspect some of you are simply too risk adverse to take chances on the role of the dice once in awhile or maybe this device just isn't for you. In the absolute worst case scenario I will be out a little cash and have a device that may not do what I hoped. But that's it. The word "Risk" doesn't really enter into it, for me. Obviously, if one can't afford to role snake-eyes, one shouldn't play. I think if you re-read some of the comments above, you may see that a reader with a different mind-set will see some of them as just silly. Come on guys, comparing this transaction to Black Friday in the markets or worrying that a multi-national, multi-million, company with 100's of employees will forget insurance? Really? Ok, so you exaggerated to make a point?

Besides, sometimes getting in on the ground floor of something new actually pays benefits. Maybe not financial, but does everything in life have to be about the dollar? Can't some of us just live to have some fun once in awhile? BTW: Without risk, there is no profit, no innovation, no fun.

[Qqmike]

whatthefunk's point: "The people buying these phones are mostly their fanboys. If they screw them all over, theyre toast."

Yeah! That is certainly one big way that I was referring to above where "this is the type of thing that could blow up in a big way."

This whole deal just doesn't smell good. Is this the best type of consumer product to do this experiment with, being high-tech, complicated, requiring ongoing support, keeping users on-board and happy, and such? Meanwhile, during development, technology changes, competitive threats evolve, the market is dynamic--time horizon for roll-out? I really don't know, not informed enough, don't have time to do a formal business-plan analysis. It just doesn't smell right to my business mind. OTOH, if it works, if this puppy flies right, it could be one heck of an exemplary, successful case study with some positive lessons learned, and good press. Risky, which is one of kubicle's points. People know it at some level, but I think many people don't really understand risk until they end up on a losing end of it, like in the big market bust impacting 401-k's. Risk is a fashionable word that few people really relate to in a meaningful way.

[kubicle]

Good point. I think Canonical essentially has to give the people the phones though, otherwise they would be finished. The people buying these phones are mostly their fanboys. If they screw them all over, theyre toast.

I don't disagree...it's in Canonical's best interests to make good phones and get them delivered to people.

I'm just saying there are risks involved in the project (what it the assembly line burns down with all the phones, and someone forgot to update the insurance policy?) and the "investors" are carrying it. It's not the same as "buying a phone".

[whatthefunk]

That's the image they are trying to portray, but crowdfunding is gathering investments, not selling products. You're investing money in the hope that you'll (eventually) get a phone (that may or may not work) in return. Legally there is no "seller" here, one that would be liable for a faulty product, for example.

Good point. I think Canonical essentially has to give the people the phones though, otherwise they would be finished. The people buying these phones are mostly their fanboys. If they screw them all over, theyre toast.

[kubicle]

This isnt really investing though. Investing means you give a company/organization money and then hope that that company does the right things with your money so that it will grow. This is not what Canonical is doing. They are instead selling a product that doesnt exist yet and hoping that enough people preorder one to cover production costs.

That's the image they are trying to portray, but crowdfunding is gathering investments, not selling products. You're investing money in the hope that you'll (eventually) get a phone (that may or may not work) in return. Legally there is no "seller" here, one that would be liable for a faulty product, for example.

[whatthefunk]

I'm with you Steve. I haven't been saying it isn't a shrewd business move (getting other people to bear the risks/costs isn't idiotic at all...regardless of doing it ethically or not).

Just trying to voice that people shouldn't be making investment decisions on emotion (at least not without understanding what they are in for)...although who am I kidding, people do that all the time even though it's very rarely an economically sound move .

Seeing some people invest money on a "warm and fuzzy feeling" makes me want to start a few new business ventures of my own.

This isnt really investing though. Investing means you give a company/organization money and then hope that that company does the right things with your money so that it will grow. This is not what Canonical is doing. They are instead selling a product that doesnt exist yet and hoping that enough people preorder one to cover production costs. They have also managed to convince a number of people that they are not a corporation but a warm, fuzzy free software entity that is in need of donations to make their product a reality. What these people do not seem to realize is that they will get absolutely nothing for their money. It wont go to help people in need, it wont go to help free software development, in wont grow, it wont give anything of real value to anyone. It it just makes it cheaper for Canonical to make other peoples phones. Its like giving your money to BMW so rich people can have cheaper luxury cars.

[kubicle]

Exploitative and stinky though it may be, I still concur with that post Claydoh linked earlier...it's an interesting business experiment.

I'm with you Steve. I haven't been saying it isn't a shrewd business move (getting other people to bear the risks/costs isn't idiotic at all...regardless of doing it ethically or not).

Just trying to voice that people shouldn't be making investment decisions on emotion (at least not without understanding what they are in for)...although who am I kidding, people do that all the time even though it's very rarely an economically sound move .

Seeing some people invest money on a "warm and fuzzy feeling" makes me want to start a few new business ventures of my own.

[SteveRiley]

To me this is just exploitation of good will...a glorified marketing campaign (probably targeted at mobile hardware makers) risking users' money (with no risk to the company).

upon first reading it, it smelled stinky from a business standpoint: Canonical needs some good business management. This is the type of thing that could blow up in a big way. Shall we call it chicken-sh* business development?

Exploitative and stinky though it may be, I still concur with that post Claydoh linked earlier...it's an interesting business experiment. Sufficiently interesting that a few million dollars have already flowed from several hundred hands to Canonical. Absent from that set of hands remains mine, because I have become somewhat disenchanted with Canonical overall. They are doing everything they can to bury the fact that they're a Linux distribution. Why should I continue to support an organization that wants to disassociate itself with the very thing that matters most to me?

Furthermore, Canonical has a pretty abysmal track record when it comes to handling money. They continue to encourage folks to donate on the Ubuntu download page. The "Better support for flavours like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu" choice remains an option. Yet, as far as I know, still none of that money has actually flowed to the flavors. This was a point of some contentious discussion at UDS last year.

[Qqmike]

@ kubicle, #38: I would agree. Don't know as much about all this as some of you, but upon first reading it, it smelled stinky from a business standpoint: Canonical needs some good business management. This is the type of thing that could blow up in a big way. Shall we call it chicken-sh* business development?

[kubicle]

Okay, I see your point. I can't support the claim that there is 'no risk'. I've edited the OP.

I'm not claiming it's a huge risk...and people take risks every day, maybe some people are willing to risk it (I won't...I don't pay for stuff I don't "have in my hands").

But if they're asking people for 600$, they should be upfront about it...that you're essentially an investor (and not a consumer buying goods), if the phone doesn't work (as you expect it to...or even at all) you can't demand your money back.

To me this is just exploitation of good will...a glorified marketing campaign (probably targeted at mobile hardware makers) risking users' money (with no risk to the company).

The "let's change the world (by making 40.000 phones with your money)" hype along the Canonical blogosphere just annoys the hell out of me (as you can probably tell by now )

[Snowhog]

Okay, I see your point. I can't support the claim that there is 'no risk'. I've edited the OP.

I still think the Ubuntu Edge project is a worthy one, and if successful, has great potential.

[kubicle]

Well, the reason the refund can be promised is because the funds raised by the campaign won't be released to the Ubuntu Edge project unless the goal is reached. If the goal is not met, all funds will be returned to the contributors. What Canonical has committed to, should the campaign goal be reached, is to produce the initial production run of Ubuntu Edge phones, which includes those going to contributors who donated at specific levels. There are no other promises after that, and they don't make or imply that there are.

All true, but that does not mean it's "risk free". If the goal is reached Canonical will get the money. If they go bankrupt after that, it's "Your money went to creditors, thanks for your support".

[Snowhog]

Well, the reason the refund can be promised is because the funds raised by the campaign won't be released to the Ubuntu Edge project unless the goal is reached. If the goal is not met, all funds will be returned to the contributors. What Canonical has committed to, should the campaign goal be reached, is to produce the initial production run of Ubuntu Edge phones, which includes those going to contributors who donated at specific levels. There are no other promises after that, and they don't make or imply that there are.

I wish the campaign success. If Canonical can pull this off; not just reaching their campaign funding goal and producing the first run of their smart phones, but actually break into the smart phone market, it would be a huge boost to Linux popularity. At some point, 'Linux' is going to have to become 'main stream' to remain more than a niche market of average joe-user. Smart phones are the de rigueur of personal networking, and I think that Canonical has made a smart choice in going after that market.