So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

[dibl]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

Hmm... I've obviously misunderstood something somewhere along the line.

For some reason I got the impression that Kubuntu "Linux for Human Beings" was, as the homepage of the Kubuntu website says, "a free, user-friendly operating system based on the K Desktop Environment and on the award winning Ubuntu operating system". This is pretty much how it was around the time of Dapper Drake.

Now it seems I'm being Kubuntu is meant to be bleeding edge and more like a hobby than a useful OS. Not what I want nor, I would guess, what many people looking to move away from Windows would like. Shh! Hear that? THe sound of a boat being missed...

Maybe not "misunderstood" -- the quote looks right. But these things all need a context -- *buntu does not emerge from a vacuum in space.

*buntu is developed from Debian.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/ubuntustory/debian

Debian has versions. *buntu is (and always was, AFAIK) developed out of Debian unstable, aka "Sid". That is where the so-called "bleeding edge" development of Debian Linux happens:

http://www.debian.org/releases/

So, the "little picture", perhaps, is the quoted *buntu mission statement, and the bigger picture "as developed from the bleeding edge of Debian".

[GreyGeek]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

......

KDE 4.3.2 does not have kscope, KDE 3.5 has it and we can browse c code easily.

Well, since Qt and KDE are written using C++, and I write code using Qt and C++, AND QtCreator and gcc DO run on KDE 4.3.2 I find it VERY USEFUL!

KDE 4.3.2 does not have kdesvn, KDE 3.5 has it and we can browse svn in konqueror easily.

Well, I moved from SVN to bzr a couple years ago. Bzr and a ton of utilities, including qbzr, a Qt interface, is in the repository. You should give bzr a look. It is very powerful but still easy to use.

KDE 4.3.2 does not have kdbg, KDE 3.5 has it and we can debug programs easily.

What distro are you using? Kdbg IS in the repository and I have it INSTALLED. QtCreator and Kdbg work together beautifully to graphically debug my apps. In fact, that combo works BETTER and faster than the MSVSC++6.0 with Qt Ingtegration that I used at work before I retired.

KDE 4.3.2 does not support global menu by default, KDE 3.5 has the option out of box.

KDE 4.3.2 doesn't even have a non-beta version of burning software , KDE 3.5 has the rock solid k3b .

I'm using K3b on this 64 bit Kubuntu Karmic and it runs beautifully. When I look at the "About" page is says
"K3b
Version 1.68.0
Using KDE 4.3.2 (KDE 4.3.2)"

How long has it been since you've run Kubuntu Karmic or KDE4 ?

KDE 3.5 we use kaffine easily and it simply works, Kubuntu 9.04 I don't what player achieves the same function level.

mmmm... this section of the forum is "In Development - 9.10 Karmic Koala". Did you miss that? But, I run Kubuntu Jaunty on the first partition of this Sony notebook, and the second partition of my Acer, and it runs beautifully on both. I prefer VLC though.

KDE 3.5 knetworkmanager connects to WPA/WiFi flawlessly, while Kubuntu 9.04 doesn't have a working knetworkmanager

I am glad it works for you on KDE 3.5 on what ever distro you are using. It works for me now too, but I prefer wicd. What's nice about Linux is that there are several apps addressing the same niche.

KDE 3.5 kbluetooth works and I can send/receive files without any difficulties, while Kubuntu 9.04 kbluetooth cannot works.

Don't use Bluetooth, and never tested it. And 99.999% of the time I run the 64 bit Kubuntu Karmic. I've turned off the bluetooth service.
But, again, this is the DEVELOPMENT forum of 9.10 Kubuntu, not Jaunty.

However, IF I had a bluetooh device and were running Jaunty I'd wager that on my system it would work. Why do I say that? Because both Jaunty and Karmic "just work" for the LARGE majority of their users, probably few of which write code or use bluetooth. I've installed Jaunty or Karmic on almost a dozen boxes owned mostly by folks over 60. ALL of them report no problems, which I can say without fear of contradiction because I am their support. In that regard I feel as lonely as the Maytag repairman. Oh, my wife run's Jaunty on her Acer laptop. She is a technophobe, and cannot remember how to do something that requires sequential steps even if she did it a hundred times before. EVEN she has no problem running Kubuntu Jaunty, and Jaunty gives he NO problems.

As a C programmer you should realize that just because you have a problem with an app or a distro does not mean that anyone or everyone else is having problems.

So why the hell do you think KDE 4.3.2 is the most powerful desktop ever?

I've shown you. Add to that the fact that Dolphin is the best file manager ever, that KDE4 is highly configurable and easily customized, and is very fast and beautiful and you'll begin to get the picture. Have you really explored Dolphin, other than to whine that it doesn't work like Konqueror?

Now, why do you think profanity adds strength to your argument?

[kubicle]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

For some reason I got the impression that Kubuntu "Linux for Human Beings" was, as the homepage of the Kubuntu website says, "a free, user-friendly operating system based on the K Desktop Environment and on the award winning Ubuntu operating system".

It's all that. It doesn't, OTOH, say that kubuntu comes with old software that is stable, but possibly unmaintained.

Now it seems I'm being Kubuntu is meant to be bleeding edge and more like a hobby than a useful OS. Not what I want nor, I would guess, what many people looking to move away from Windows would like. Shh! Hear that? THe sound of a boat being missed...

Shh! Hear that? That's the sound of me not caring what linux distribution or OS you (or others) choose to use. If you don't like kubuntu, there are plenty of other distributions (or operating systems) to choose from.

You are sorely mistaken if you think everyone here thinks you (and everyone else) should use kubuntu (or even linux)...or that it is the best distribution for everyone. You're quite free to vote with your feet (or money).

[GreyGeek]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

I've seen a flurry of these kinds of postings lately.

Think it has anything to do with the release of Win7?

[exploder]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

I think that Karmic is very usable! KDE 4.3.2 is quick and it's memory footprint is quite good when you consider all of it's features. All things KDE are progressing rapidly, just look at Amarok. Karmic has a lot to offer! Boot times are good, Intel graphics are working nicely, KDE 4.3.2 is fantastic, gtk application theming is consistant and the list goes on and on!

Karmic provides a stock KDE 4 appearance that makes customizing it quick and easy. I grabbed the Kubuntu Spotlight kdm theme and splash, then added my favorite wallpaper, the end result looks great and it only took minutes to accomplish. I did clean up and organize the panel a little too.

KDE 4 has a very bright future and Debian based packaging is clearly the way to go. Karmic is very usable!

[gregwalton]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

Thanks, exploder. That was actually an answer to my original question. From the answers I've had it sounds like the Karmic production release will be worth trying out.

[sithlord48]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

for all my bluetooth needs i use blueman its a bit more featurefull (atm) then kbluetooth and still uses the same backend stack (blueZ).

besides isn't opensource about chioce/and customizing, what good is an os i can't set up the way i want to use it ?

[gregwalton]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

I've seen a flurry of these kinds of postings lately.

Think it has anything to do with the release of Win7?

Exactly - if people (like me) are looking at moving off Vista and possibly to Win7 it's a sensible time to look at the alternatives. Ubuntu is generally considered to be the most popular Linux distro and I happen to have (historically) prefered KDE, so it seems logical to me to look at a new release of Kubuntu. This is especially so as I had a good 18months or more in the past with Kubuntu just naturally taking over as my main OS.

[Guest]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

So, I thought I would put my 2 cents worth into this story. So here goes.

I have been a Linux user and developer for many years now, and I have to say that I am very disappointed with the way the Linux community views Linux as a whole.

As a once avid KDE fan, I have been running Kubuntu for a while now on my development laptop (would never use it on a computer I need to do more than edit text files with), with the main features being KWrite and the lovely sftp support built into Konqueror.

When the window showed up for me to upgrade yesterday, I naturally clicked it to get the latest version. What a mistake!

The upgrade failed half way through (due to the kdelibs in the backend being reinstalled, except the problem is, the pretty KDE installer is still using the old version of kdelibs! Kinda a no brainer if you ask me). My first response was, what Linux users normally think, "what have I done wrong this time?". So, I used a stable computer (a Mac, don't event think of saying Linux is more stable than OSX, I, being a Linux fanboy by heart for many years only bought the Mac to prove to my Mac using friends that, I have tried a Mac, and still think Linux is better. Boy was I wrong. My friends won the argument outright) and downloaded the kubuntu-9.10 ISO and burnt it to disk, wiped my laptop, and did a fresh install. (yes the install looked pretty, but what happened to me choosing what I wanted to install?).

So, here are my impressions, ignoring the "glitch" during the install:

The first thing I noticed was they now don't install the only program that kinda works properly. Yes, KWrite is missing! PS. Yes, I have had lots of problems with even the most simplest of programs. A text editor. Since the big 4.0, I get crappy artifacts all over my text files as I am writing in both KWrite AND Kate. The lovely renaming bug also comes to mind (the one where when I rename a file it deletes the content of the file instead of renaming the file. This seems to have been solved at least!).

The only use I have found worth while out of plasma has been removed. I can no longer set my desktop background to display a picture of the weather. Seriously Aaron, do you actually sit and look at your desktop all the time? For me, I generally have programs open. These programs cover the desktop. Why do I want a whole bunch of crappy "plasmoids" (that are generally buggy as hell) on a desktop I never look at? So, I chose to have the good old "folder view" with all the file and directories on it. Low and behold, when I actually hover over any of the items on my desktop, I get a big UGLY block (with rounded corners) with nothing in it! Way to go guys. Good work!

So, because I HATE Dolphin (just because the icons resize when you change the width of boxes, doesn't mean its the "most advanced" file manager, it just means you've wasted the most time on crap that is irrelevant instead of making it usable), I use Konqueror as my file browser, and firefox as my web browser. Low and behold, yet again, firefox is not installed! So I click the "install firefox" button under internet. It says "Firefox is already installed". Hmmm. It seems that without a network connection, it thinks firefox is installed, with one, firefox can be installed! I also noticed this with all the programs that install extra stuff. eg. Konquerors additional plugins recommendation, napomuk backend, ...

The problems just go on and on. No point in listing them all!

So, to sum up, No I didn't report the bugs (they are so blatantly obvious that if the developers hadn't caught them already, then I fear what they would break when they try fix them, plus, submitting a bug is a pain in the arse. Tip: have a look at how OSX does it. The ONE crash I had just had "report", no need to waste more time when you are already upset that an error happened.

ARG, I feel I am wasting my time. Seems like I should start using Windows. It is just as buggy, but at least I can use proper programs and drivers instead of programs trying to imitate other programs. How nice would it be to photoshop on my PC instead of gimp, go to any website without having to view the source to see what the website says, buy a camera, phone, 3G card, ... without having to spend hours each time I reinstall to get it working again, play games without having to run emulation!

PS. the only reason you need choice in Linux is because half the stuff doesn't work, so you have to choose something else!

[kubicle]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

I would think "a linux user and developer for years" should know how to install programs like 'kwrite' or the 'plasma weather wallpaper' (tip: plasma-wallpapers-addons) if those aren't installed, rather than complain about it on web forums.

Unfortunately, the world doesn't revolve around your preferences and needs, but fortunately for you, you can can modify your system to your needs (use kwrite over kate...use konqueror instead of dolphin...don't use plasmoids if you don't need them...you don't even have to use KDE4, which, miraculously, seems to work fine for the most of us...etc.), and you always have your trusted mac to fall back on if linux is that unbearable.

ARG, I feel I am wasting my time.

You are, and not just yours.

[Guest]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

The point is, yes, I can install what ever I want, but, here I am again, wasting my time doing it. And the next version? Well, I might not be solving the same problems, but I can be sure I will be solving other problems!

How about stopping screwing around with crap like shadows, cubes, fire effects when I minimize my window, wobbly windows,.. and make a network manager that actually works! Stop making pretty boxes that show how much memory I'm using, tweets, facebook messages, now playing boxes, ... and instead have a usable bluetooth app installed!

Only me having problems? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs

[kubicle]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

The point is, yes, I can install what ever I want, but, here I am again, wasting my time doing it. And the next version? Well, I might not be solving the same problems, but I can be sure I will be solving other problems!

How about stopping screwing around with crap like shadows, cubes, fire effects when I minimize my window, wobbly windows,.. and make a network manager that actually works! Stop making pretty boxes that show how much memory I'm using, tweets, facebook messages, now playing boxes, ... and instead have a usable bluetooth app installed!

You are starting to qualify as an "everyone-should-do-what-i-want" -character:

1. Complain that distribution X does not come with your preferred software, no matter what other people might prefer...or physical restrictions like what would fit on the cd.
2. Claim that feature X is utterly useless since you don't need it, again, no matter what other people might think or use.
3. Demand that everyone should work on the issues you find important, don't offer to help or pay anyone to do the work, rather declare that the developed software is useless.
4. Fail to grasp the simple open source idea that "those who do the work, decide...not random people on the internet"
5. All the better if you can throw in a few references how everything else is better.

BTW, my karmic laptop has a functional network manager and bluetooth app...kbluetooth itself works just fine (many of the bluetooth problems come from hardware locking and software blocking not working together, usually fixable with rfkill).

Only me having problems? https://bugs.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs

Oh...you mean there are bugs in an operating system?
Last I checked, debian and arch (which I also use), and other operating systems like windows and mac, also have those.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are things in kubuntu that need improving.

[GreyGeek]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

So, I thought I would put my 2 cents worth into this story. So here goes.

As a Linux user and developer for over a decade I thought I'd do what you did and add my two cents worth:

A world class corporation had this perfectly running system built by Microsoft using .NET technology. It had been in place for almost half a year. In June it had a minor glitch which halted activity for less than an hour. Then, on Sept 8th, 2008, it came crashing down and the company was off line for an entire day and lost over ONE BILLION dollars! Microsoft did their best to keep the press from pin-pointing the exact cause of the failure ... the .NET application, and for the most part they succeeded. MS TE's buried the stories in a blizzard of PR pretending to be news releases, in astroturfing posts blowing smoke on the situation and claiming other components were at fault.

In the end this corporation decided it knew where the fault lay and it sacked the person who brought in the .NET technology and replaced the faulty application with one which had been on the market for several years BEFORE Microsoft created their "solution", one built and running on Linux and which was 4X faster than the .NET "solution"!

Switching to Linux? Just what were the people at the London Stock Exchange thinking? !!!!
Don't they realize how much better Windows is than Linux? What does "Unknown" know that the LSE doesn't?

And then there are those pesky banks, Hollywood, the DoD, the White house... all of them moving to Linux or open source. tsk, tsk, tsk...

[sithlord48]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

i've said it before and i will say it again , why is it always people with a post or two (unknown..) claim to be these devs and users for years, and then they flame kubuntu(or linux in general) for **** that is an issues with usually something the user (that is you in this case unknown) is breaking damn user error again and its our fault. as for not submitting ur bug reports as a developer you should know how useful those can be. unknown go back to kiddie unix i mean mac OS.

[bernieszu]

Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?

I assume so.
I'm a bog standard computer user - no good under the hood.
I have upgraded every time the general release was posted since I first got Kubuntu (think it was Edgy) and never had any major problems that couldn't be solved by a visit to the forums. Installed the upgrade last night and so far everything is fine.