What CPU and video for a new computer? (It's here!)

[lmilano]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

I certainly appreciate you sharing your opinions, and fully support your right to promote the product you believe in. Thank you for contributing.

Promoting? I think we are all just throwing ideas, in case they help you (or anyone reading the thread). I definitely learn from such things (except when you get extreme fanatics of a certain brand).

Cheers!

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Promoting? I think we are all just throwing ideas, in case they help you (or anyone reading the thread). I definitely learn from such things (except when you get extreme fanatics of a certain brand).

Sorry if you don't like the word I used. Maybe instead I should have asked which Logitech models would be suitable for someone without a mouse. I am thankful for all the ideas people have shared in this thread, and it was not my intention to imply anything else.

[Ole Juul]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Are there any other high quality keyboard manufacturers? It is important to me because I don't use a mouse and the keyboard is my primary input device.

I wish there were other keyboards out there which had typist level quality, but I haven't heard of them (yet). So I guess I'd have to say that I shamelessly promote the model M. To me, If I had to replace a keyboard after only 10 years of use, I would say it was crap. (I'm really, really, old fashioned that way!)

Regarding power supplies: there is another advantage to having a lot of power available, and that is that it will be less stressed in normal use. I don't use the power levels you do, but I still got a fairly hefty supply because, in this case, it runs quieter because the fan doesn't need to go on all the time.

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Ole Juul, do you like the buckling spring better or the rubber dome?

I am a little worried that the buckling spring will be too loud. I don't know if the keyboard I am using now is rubber dome but I don't like it. The keys don't go down smoothly, and sometimes feel sticky if I don't push hard enough.

[kbunt]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

My two cents: for mobo, Intel socket LGA 1156 w/ Intel Core i5 or i7 CPU. Some new ones came out that are cheaper and run cooler.
mobo that takes DDR3 RAM
Video card: Nvidia (ATI still has issues).
PSU: Corsair

If you need things cheap, the AMD Phenom series that are compatible with AM3 processors are probably the next best option (Imho).

I'm asking for anyone's two cents now!: :-)

I would like to get a mouse for my laptop. I am wondering if I should get a laptop mouse or regularly sized mouse. Laptop mice seem a bit small but maybe useful for sticking it in your notebook case?

Also, I like the 'Nano' receivers and both Logitech and Microsoft mice have them but only a few models do. I am considering the Logitech V450 Nano, the VX Nano and the Microsoft 6000 that has the smaller receiver. Any recommendations or advice?

[Ole Juul]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Ole Juul, do you like the buckling spring better or the rubber dome?
I am a little worried that the buckling spring will be too loud.

I like some pressure because I rest my fingers on the keys. That is the only way I can tell where my fingers are, because I do not look at the keyboard when I type. I close my eyes when I am thinking at the same time. I don't even know where the keys are if I do look. Although I come from the "Underwood" generation and learnt to type back then, I don't really have that level of skill and nobody needs it any more. It used to be that entry level secretarial skills required 80wpm, and a professional typist was in the 100-120wpm range without mistakes. Nobody needs to do that any more, so keyboards are much less important from that point of view.

Here's the scoop as I know it from myself and internet talk. Buckling spring makes what some consider an irritating sound. This is a real issue, and the importance depends on a mixture of personal sensibilities and purpose. Writing code and e-mails is very different from doing transcriptions, for example. The keys also require a little push - that is why you can type faster on such a keyboard. Although minuscule compared to a manual typewriter, the difference in the push is significant nowadays. Most people are sensitive to this, but report quickly getting used to it. The difference is not really about comfort, but about accuracy. A light keyboard will be prone to errors which can be especially important if you're not the kind of typist that looks at the screen - ie during transcription. That kind of typing is not about noise or other comfort, but about speed and accuracy.

The issue of longevity is another one. I don't think any rubber dome keyboard will last very long. You'll forever be buying new ones. The concept of "very long" varies astronomically between people who regularly recycle and people like me who don't. I expect a lifetimes of use out of most things. I have not tried the non-buckling keyboards from Unicomp, but I suspect they are of good quality. In my limited experience with them, the only non-buckling keyboard that I have liked was a cheap BenQ X-touch which felt very good - and didn't make a lot of noise either.

If you are worried about the irritation of clikity keyboards, perhaps you should take that into account... and not listen to fanatics like me. VBG!

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

.....
which Logitech models would be suitable for someone without a mouse.
...

Just half an hour ago I returned from Sams, where I purchased a "V550 Nano Cordless Laser Mouse for Notebooks" from Logitech. It features that stub plug, 18 MONTHS of batter life (2 AA's) and a docking stub that you can glue onto the back of your lid. When you slide the mouse onto that plug it shuts the mouse off. $32 US.

http://theappleblog.com/2008/10/14/l...s-laser-mouse/

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

If you are worried about the irritation of clikity keyboards, perhaps you should take that into account... and not listen to fanatics like me. VBG!

I have wanted one of these for a long time, but had forgotten who made them. I'll just buy one and hope my girlfriend will tolerate the sound.

[wizard10000]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Professional hardware geek here.

CPU: Intel Core i7-920 2.66 GHz quad-core processor.

Good choice. Mine is running flawlessly at 3.3GHz at stock voltage and quite a few people have pushed them a lot farther than that.

Heatsink: Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C

Meh. I'm running a Zalman 9900 which works fine but my first choice would probably be a Noctua NH-U12P. Airflow in and out of the case is gonna be critical as i7s generate a lot of heat. At 3.2GHz with the stock Intel cooler I ran eight threads of folding@home that got the cores up over 80 degrees in about ten seconds. With almost any i7 cooler that's worth the money you're gonna have to worry about whether it'll fit in the case.

Memory: 6 Gigs Super Talent DDR3 triple channel

I've got 6gb of Patriot RAM here but so far my opinion is that DDR3 is both expensive and overrated. The only reason I run 6gb of RAM in this machine is so I can give 4gb to a VM if I want to. Other than that the RAM sits unused for the most part.

Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI Classified (part number 141-BL-E760-A1)

After looking at them all I bought a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R. The one I got has a bad SATA port but Gigabyte's quality control ain't bad. Since the board's got seven more SATA ports and a three-year manufacturer's warranty I'll get it fixed at some point but I've been very happy with the board. Very configurable and very overclockable. The only thing I don't like is DDR timing is either 1066 or 1600 MHz - there's nothing in between.

Video card: GeForce GTX 285 part number 01G-P3-1180-AR

Overkill for a Linux box. I used a GF9500GT and even that's overkill.

Hard disks: Two Western Digital RE 3 enterprise WD1002FBYS drives (1 TB each) in RAID 1 mirroring for 1 TB total storage and 100% redundancy.

Meh. RAID is not a backup strategy.

On a desktop PC you'll find that a big single drive and a good, *tested* backup strategy will perform better than an array in almost all applications. A two-drive RAID0 array has higher throughput but also higher latency than a single drive and a RAID1 array has the same latency without the increased throughput. Most of the time on a home PC you're moving little files around and the performance penalty for using RAID does tend to get irritating - at least it does to me.

I've got a Samsung drive with almost identical specs to the WD and have been happy with it. For desktop hard drives I tend to prefer Hitachi, Samsung and Seagate in that order but drives are commodities these days and they all run about the same.

Optical drive: LG 4X Blu-ray Burner

JMO but unless you need to write Blu-Ray the technology's still too expensive.

Case: SilverStone RV02 with 90 degree motherboard rotation and 3 180mm fans.

An expensive toy. You can do better for less money unless you're just looking at wow factor - and if that's the case spend the $200 on a good water cooling setup and you'll be a lot happier.

Power supply: Antec 1000 watts

This is *way* too much power supply for an i7 920 with one video card, two hard drives and one optical drive - 650 watts will work fine.

Keyboard: On-The-Ball 104/105 with USB and Buckling Spring

Keyboards are personal preference. Not messing with that one

Hope this helps.

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Hi wizard10000,

I appreciate all your advice. Please allow me to rebut a few of your points, and explain my reasons.

Airflow in and out of the case is gonna be critical as i7s generate a lot of heat.

The case has three 180mm fans intake and one 120mm fan outlet. It will accommodate at least one more optional fan, and a liquid cooling kit if I want one. The reason for rotating the motherboard 90 degrees is to improve airflow throughout the case. Cool air comes in the bottom, and goes out the top. I thought this video review was very informative.

Meh. RAID is not a backup strategy.

That is true, but it does prevent data loss due to HD failure. It turns out I can't do RAID on Linux without a card anyway, so that idea is getting axed. Maybe I'll just dedicate the secondary drive to backups.

An expensive toy. You can do better for less money unless you're just looking at wow factor - and if that's the case spend the $200 on a good water cooling setup and you'll be a lot happier.

Read my comments above about cooling.

This is *way* too much power supply for an i7 920 with one video card, two hard drives and one optical drive - 650 watts will work fine.

How do you figure that? Considering only the CPU and video card 550W + 130W = 680W. Overcapacity is not a bad thing, especially if it means my PSU will never be stressed. Have you considered what happens if I add a second video card in SLI?

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I feel better for having read them. Don't be afraid to reply again if you feel you have more to offer

[wizard10000]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Hi, Telengard -

The case has three 180mm fans intake and one 120mm fan outlet. It will accommodate at least one more optional fan, and a liquid cooling kit if I want one. The reason for rotating the motherboard 90 degrees is to improve airflow throughout the case. Cool air comes in the bottom, and goes out the top. I thought this video review was very informative.

I did find a couple of other reviews that I thought were more informative but I'm still not convinced. I've seen a buncha cases that flow air as well or better and cost a hundred bucks less

That is true, but it does prevent data loss due to HD failure. It turns out I can't do RAID on Linux without a card anyway, so that idea is getting axed. Maybe I'll just dedicate the secondary drive to backups.

Depends on the embedded SATA controller - I can do RAID0, 1, 5 and 10 out of the box with the board I mentioned below. If it's hardware RAID it doesn't matter whether it's Linux or Windows. The motherboard you mentioned will do RAID under Linux just fine.

How do you figure that? Considering only the CPU and video card 550W + 130W = 680W. Overcapacity is not a bad thing, especially if it means my PSU will never be stressed. Have you considered what happens if I add a second video card in SLI?

If you want someone to consider SLI then maybe you should have mentioned it

EVGA recommends a 550W power supply and I agree you need at least that much. That doesn't mean the *card* draws 550 watts

Without the second video card any one of several PSU calculators are talking 600-650 watts total. If you're gonna do SLI then I agree with the 1KW power supply but there's no reason to do SLI under Linux unless you're down at the local stadium driving a jumbotron

Special pleading, but I do this stuff for a living - I spec out and buy a couple thousand PCs a year. The GF285 is way overkill unless you're gaming in Windows and there's no reason for SLI unless you're gaming under Windows as well. There ain't nothing in Linux that'd require even one GF285.

You've spec'd out a machine with four PCIe slots, six DIMM slots, two onboard NICs, nine SATA ports and a dozen USB ports. When you buy more technology than you need right now you spend too much money for your technology.

I just built a core i7 920 two months ago and spent a little less than $900 for a reasonably high-end system. Unless you're gaming under Windows you're considering spending a hell of a lot more money than you need.

But it is your money

good luck -

[Snowhog]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Special pleading, but I do this stuff for a living - I spec out and buy a couple thousand PCs a year. The GF285 is way overkill unless you're gaming in Windows and there's no reason for SLI unless you're gaming under Windows as well. There ain't nothing in Linux that'd require even one GF285.
.
.
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But it is your money

Reasonable credentials I'd say. And realistic as well ("But it is your money").

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

wizard10000, you have made a lot of fine arguments which would be very persuasive, but only if money were the deciding factor. It is not, and I am much more constrained by time since I have to make the purchase early next week. I am not afraid of buying more powerful equipment than I really need. I do not want to have to replace this computer again two years from now, when I no longer have access to money.

Depends on the embedded SATA controller - I can do RAID0, 1, 5 and 10 out of the box with the board I mentioned elow. If it's hardware RAID it doesn't matter whether it's Linux or Windows. The motherboard you mentioned will do RAID under Linux just fine.

Really? I want to believe that you are right about this, but I have reason to believe the opposite. With all due respect to your exprience on the issue, I am now thoroughly confused as to whether I can expect my motherboard's RAID features to work.


I may do some gaming on Windows, and I will definitely do some gaming on Kubuntu. If there is going to be a Linux version of Starcraft 2, I will be overjoyed and most likely not regret my investment.

If you are still interested in persuading me, then please tell me how to get more performance or better reliability with this new system. I want it to kick ass and last me for a good, long time.

[Ole Juul]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

I personally go with wizard10000's approach, but I also understand Telengard's wishes. We procure stuff for different reasons. I think that the "appropriateness" of a lot of technology is based on the feelings we have towards it. Telengard's machine will have characteristics that particularly appeal to him. It will clearly meet his needs as well as last him for a while, even though some of us think that could be done in a more economic manner. That doesn't really matter.

The "cool factor" is pretty important - perhaps more so to some people. My coolest machine is a P-133 system that I built last year specially for writing and text file management. I use it continually, and for what it is designed to do it runs circles around any Linux box or MS-Windows machine that I've ever seen. This is not the place, but that is the machine I brag about. Each to his own eh?

[wizard10000]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

If you are still interested in persuading me, then please tell me how to get more performance or better reliability with this new system. I want it to kick ass and last me for a good, long time.

Nah - not interested in persuading you since cost isn't as much of an issue and I understand better than most about procuring shiny new hardware toys

It's generally a lousy idea to buy IT hardware for future needs as by the time you actually need the increased capacity you'll be able to obtain it for a lot less money than if you bought stuff you didn't need now.

But - as long as you're going in with your eyes open feel free to enjoy whatever you have built

If you want performance you might want to give some thought to using a good SSD as a startup drive and if you've got lotsa data to store put /home on a mechanical hard drive. SSD technology has changed a lot in the last few years and you still have to be careful what you're buying to make sure it really is faster than a mechanical hard drive.

When you're troubleshooting performance issues the component that's operating at 100% capacity is *always* the bottleneck. With a modern processor and enough RAM to keep the system from paging to disk that bottleneck is always gonna be disk, network or video I/O.

Network isn't an issue at this point and your video card will be more than competent so if I was gonna improve on your choices at all I'd be looking at a good SSD boot drive and that's about it. You don't need more than maybe 30gb if that.

Modern hard drive technology is getting better but you're limited by one very hard fact - disk throughput is limited to a very simple fomula - sectors per track on the disk platter x rotational speed = maximum sustained disk throughput. If you take two hard drives with the same number of platters spinning at the same rpm the drive with the greater sector density will have higher sustained throughput. Although all these drives are talking through a 3 Gbps SATA interface the bottom line is once the onboard cache is empty you'll be hard pressed to find a mechanical drive that'll sustain much more than 100mb/sec. A good SSD will do about twice that.

I did see one thing in the video that might be worth keeping an eye out for, though - in the first two minutes of the video they mentioned that the PSU couldn't be more than 220mm long. Don't know how big that 1Kw power supply is but you might wanna look up the spec sheet before committing hard-earned funds

cheers -

oh - and on the RAID thing? The post you cited was correct - there's a difference between fakeraid and real RAID. Intel ICH* RAID configurations are fakeraid but are supported by Linux. My understanding is that Linux will see a mirror but not a striped volume on an ICH* chipset.