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    What is KDE Neon?

    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Q: What is KDE Neon?
    A: Broken

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
      Q: What is KDE Neon?
      A: Broken
      For you maybe, but for the vast; and I mean VAST; majority of KDE neon users, that just isn't true. I use KDE neon User Edition as my primary OS, using it daily, and keep it fully updated. I've had either zero issues since day one, or very minor ones that were easily fixed.
      Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007
      "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Snowhog View Post
        For you maybe, but for the vast; and I mean VAST; majority of KDE neon users, that just isn't true. I use KDE neon User Edition as my primary OS, using it daily, and keep it fully updated. I've had either zero issues since day one, or very minor ones that were easily fixed.
        Using it daily for what? OCL or cuda intensive apps using multiple GPUs? Low latency audio applications via external interfaces? Camera tethering or wifi remote control?

        Maybe you do use your actual computer as a computer, and not simply as a toy, but the vast, and I mean vast majority (ok, many ) of Linux users in general do not appear to be using their computers very hard at all. It seems to me that a lot of people spend their time distro hopping and checking out the latest and greatest (cuz linux makes em look cool). I just need it to work. Properly. Reliably. Every day.

        KDE's direction in general seems a bit odd. I want better configuration tools, not a different Kmenu. I need fan control. I need memory control, I need voltage control. I need access to the hardware from my desktop in a far more robust fashion. After 20+ years we still do not have those basic tools. We have nice eye candy though.
        Last edited by ShadYoung; Oct 25, 2022, 05:14 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
          Q: What is KDE Neon?
          A: Broken
          Hardly. I even did my first distro version upgrade, instead of doing my usual clean install, and it went perfectly, with two minor issues.

          First issue: I have an IP address and I had Apache2 installed. I planned to create a web page for it when I get around to it. When I rebooted Apache failed to mount. libphp7.so was missing from the repository. That was because in 22.04 Apache uses libphp8.so.

          Second issue: wine32 was uninstalled and the new version wasn't installed. As a result my 14 year old 32 bit EKG.exe app wouldn't run. I could have installed wine32 but it would take 1/2 Gb of space. Since I hadn't used the app since 2019 I decided to remove it instead of installing wine32.

          Over the years I heard lots of horror stories about folks having miserable success in doing a version upgrade instead of a clean install. But, since I use BTRFS snapshots as a backup, I decided to give it a try. The worst case mode would be spending 3 minutes to restore my system to 20.04.

          Had I done my usual method I would have started with the fresh install, then opened a drive containing a snapshot of my previous install and used mc to copy all my home stuff over that I wanted to keep. The email client with emails would be critical. Ditto for Steam and Minecraft. Total time: 15 minutes for a fresh install. About 10 hours to copy stuff over and make sure it all linked up properly, with touch ups over the next several days. This time: 1 1/2 hours to do the upgrade. Ran steam and minecraft to check them. Worked perfectly. So does everything else.

          So, all is well in the garden. And Neon is NOT broken.
          It is a poor craftsman that blames his tools.
          "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
          – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post

            Hardly. I even did my first distro version upgrade, instead of doing my usual clean install, and it went perfectly, with two minor issues.

            So, all is well in the garden. And Neon is NOT broken.
            It is a poor craftsman that blames his tools.
            I believe you. However, when I tried the shiny new Neon yesterday, it booted with zero art - no icons, no dressing,... just text on an empty desktop background. It seems the vaunted new plasma 26 is a tad borked. I booted up the live version of 22.04... its fine. Booted up the windows install... its fine... seems to me the tool did indeed arrive broken in the box. Probably thanks to UPS not being gentle during shipping.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post

              I believe you. However, when I tried the shiny new Neon yesterday, it booted with zero art - no icons, no dressing,... just text on an empty desktop background. It seems the vaunted new plasma 26 is a tad borked. I booted up the live version of 22.04... its fine. Booted up the windows install... its fine... seems to me the tool did indeed arrive broken in the box. Probably thanks to UPS not being gentle during shipping.
              Oh, you booted a CD. Did it calculate a checksum at the beginning of the boot up? The problems you mention are indicative of a bad CD burn or a bad ISO. Did you run the CD as a LiveCD or did you install it and then run it?

              Can you download the ISO, check it, and burn it to a CD or USB stick yourself?

              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post

                I believe you. However, when I tried the shiny new Neon yesterday, it booted with zero art - no icons, no dressing,... just text on an empty desktop background. It seems the vaunted new plasma 26 is a tad borked. I booted up the live version of 22.04... its fine. Booted up the windows install... its fine... seems to me the tool did indeed arrive broken in the box. Probably thanks to UPS not being gentle during shipping.
                Per Claydoh:

                Usually.
                Being the internet, even explaining things means little, sometimes.
                Or often.

                Some people like to squeal.
                I wear earplugs.​

                My updates on 4 machines went smoothly. Kudos to the devs.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post

                  Oh, you booted a CD. Did it calculate a checksum at the beginning of the boot up? The problems you mention are indicative of a bad CD burn or a bad ISO. Did you run the CD as a LiveCD or did you install it and then run it?

                  Can you download the ISO, check it, and burn it to a CD or USB stick yourself?
                  It is likely hardware related. I have a non-standard config going (three monitors - one in portrait - and 2 dedicated NV GPUs). My machine is in a difficult state for Linux at the moment, and I had no expectation Neon would work in this configuration. There is nothing wrong with the ISO. I am not using a CD/DVD. Neon did not give me an option to install, I had to run the live version first.

                  Anyway, you guys are taking this far more seriously than I intended. I am a lighthearted person and I tend to tease. I try not to take life too seriously. Its way too short, and this stuff too unimportant.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
                    I am a lighthearted person and I tend to tease.
                    That's good to know, and thank you for telling us.

                    Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
                    I try not to take life too seriously. Its way too short, and this stuff too unimportant.
                    A good outlook on Life. I'm reminded of the book: "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and It's All Small Stuff"
                    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007
                    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post

                      Did you run the CD as a LiveCD or did you install it and then run it?
                      I gave it another run through and it worked this time. Using it has revealed some key difference that make Neon both compelling and worrisome at the same time. It seems Kubuntu has made changes to KDE in a way that severely limits its usefulness in a multi-monitor environment. Neon does not suffer the same problems. However it is also not as complete a system as Kubuntu, with key packages like the driver manager missing from the repositories, forcing a manual install and 3rd party repository for my display driver. It is going to be a lot more work to get a fully function media creation workstation set up, and given that the most common complaint I hear about Neon is the rapid updates tend to break things regularly, and I need my machine to be not broken, I am hesitant to give up Kubuntu.

                      I am a bit shocked on multiple levels that this many problems still exist in a multi-monitor environment in KDE. It is neither new, nor uncommon. But is seems things like a simple rotation confuses everything.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
                        t seems Kubuntu has made changes to KDE i
                        The main difference is neon having a more up to date Plasma and Qt libraries, the underlying Ubuntu OS is 100 % identical to Kubuntu. The newer Kscreen is probably helping you here. Kubuntu isn't changing anything, really.

                        Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
                        However it is also not as complete a system as Kubuntu, with key packages like the driver manager missing from the repositories
                        yes, neon is not 'complete' as you might define it. However, Lubuntu/Kubuntu's driver manager/software sources tool IS available to be installed from the standard ubuntu repos in neon. software-properties-qt. This software is NOT KDE or Plasma software, but is Ubuntu's. neon does not include it.
                        Nvidia drivers do not require extra sources at all. Some manual-ish work, perhaps, but not tons. ubuntu-drivers install I think is about it.
                        Enabling 32-bit support for Steam.

                        Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post
                        rapid updates tend to break things regularly, and I need my machine to be not broken, I am hesitant to give up Kubuntu
                        "Rapid" may be a bit strong, neon gets the official Plasma et al as they are released. The staggered release of the different components does entail a regular flow. This of course is by design, and may not suit everyone. But 'tending break things regularly' might be an overstatement. You must be hanging out on Reddit a lot A lot of knee-jerk reaction/hate as well as fanboi-ism as well. Gotta love it.

                        The main differences between Kubuntu and neon really are the updates/upgrade pacing

                        Kubuntu (non-LTS) requires updating the entire OS every 6 months vs Neon updating Plasma few weeks or so (which are mostly the bugfix "point" releases as well as regular Frameworks and Gear updates) without needing to upgrade the whole OS until the next LTS . "Major" Plasma upgrade occur every 4-6 months approx. So either way, big changes happen in both systems, it is just a matter of when.

                        Kubuntu offers the LTS option to keep both the OS and Plasma version (with minor point releases) the same for two years..


                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ShadYoung View Post

                          Using it daily for what? OCL or cuda intensive apps using multiple GPUs? Low latency audio applications via external interfaces? Camera tethering or wifi remote control?

                          Maybe you do use your actual computer as a computer, and not simply as a toy, but the vast, and I mean vast majority (ok, many ) of Linux users in general do not appear to be using their computers very hard at all. It seems to me that a lot of people spend their time distro hopping and checking out the latest and greatest (cuz linux makes em look cool). I just need it to work. Properly. Reliably. Every day.

                          KDE's direction in general seems a bit odd. I want better configuration tools, not a different Kmenu. I need fan control. I need memory control, I need voltage control. I need access to the hardware from my desktop in a far more robust fashion. After 20+ years we still do not have those basic tools. We have nice eye candy though.
                          Why do you need fan control / memory control / voltage control on the KDE desktop? Why not let the computer BIOS deal with this automatically? There is lots to be said for keeping things "simple", and let the computer bios automatically adjust the fan speeds as temperatures rise, rather than use additional applications.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by brianinnes View Post

                            Why do you need fan control / memory control / voltage control on the KDE desktop? Why not let the computer BIOS deal with this automatically? There is lots to be said for keeping things "simple", and let the computer bios automatically adjust the fan speeds as temperatures rise, rather than use additional applications.
                            You don't game, I take it
                            or just like to tweak and overclock things like you can on Windows, using the GPU utils that come with the drivers, from the GPU manufacturer, or similar utils from the motherboard maker.
                            yes, most of the CPU and RAM control can be done from the BIOS, but not so much on-the-fly fan control ootb.


                            I have corectrl for gpu tweaking if I want it, though it has far fewer dials to twirl on my new rx6600 than it did on my ancient rx480 (exactly like the screenshot in the link)
                            Click image for larger version

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                            Shad wants to be able to do the things, but without the 'extra work' so to speak.
                            Not at all unreasonable. Learning new things is not always ideal or desired.

                            The problem with Linux is that some things will *always* require some extra work, as it will always be at least somewhat DIY by nature.
                            There are few GUI utilities for hardware control partly because of the changing and closed natures of the hardware itself, as well as the overall lack of interest from hobbyist-parttime-volunteer programmers to actually develop such things for Linux.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by claydoh View Post
                              The main difference is neon having a more up to date Plasma and Qt libraries, the underlying Ubuntu OS is 100 % identical to Kubuntu. The newer Kscreen is probably helping you here. Kubuntu isn't changing anything, really.
                              You sold me. As it stands, whatever the underlying difference is, Kubuntu is useless for my needs. Its like the dev team never tested it beyond a single display, and obviously never rotated a display or this bizarre behavior would have been fixed long ago, as it would drive them as crazy as it driving me. Neon fixes half of it, at least.

                              I am going to dig more into KDisplay/SDDM. It seems to me the problems I am having with Kpanels and widgets could be solved if the display was rotated before it gets to the logon screen. It should not be rotating the screen after login (as it stands, I have to tilt my head sideways to type my password, as SDDM's focus is on the wrong, non-primary, rotated but not rotated monitor). Meanwhile, the monitor on the right side of primary does not even turn on until after login (kinda like "why is my wifi not on until after I log in?").

                              If I had any ability as a programmer I would be diving into this, it is that important. Sadly I do not. I am a multimedia artist/technician (ptgr/grip/RE).

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