A must read very important news

[claydoh]

Just because Unity will be using Mir doers not mean that Wayland and/or xorg won't be available to all the other Flavours of Ubuntu, though I am guessing that Xmir may support the gtk based ones well enough? The issue would be as to how well the community itself can or will maintain wayland and xorg.

[GreyGeek]

You won't escape Wayland by moving to Debian...

I mentioned Wayland only because it is a different path than Mir, and both can't be supported, although I've not bothered to come up to speed on either one. I have no doubt that Jon and the crew will make what every they choose work well. Cononical kicked Kubuntu to the curb years ago and with the binary license fees I doubt that it will be throwing Kubuntu any bones in the future.

Anyhow, as you've personally proven, KFN is as much a KDE support forum as it is a Kubuntu support forum, or what ever it's future name and affiliation will be. It is the spirit of this forum that makes it so great.

[dibl]

... Ubuntu is going with Mir and Kubuntu is going with Weyland ...

You won't escape Wayland by moving to Debian -- although the timing for introduction of Wayland is still speculative based on upstream development. Some Wayland libraries and piece-parts are in Unstable but AFAIK you can't actually run it, or if you do you won't find some important functions. If it doesn't make it in the next year or so, then it won't be adopted in Stretch either. But it is coming. The expectation is for a hatefest similar to the adoption of systemd. Personally I hope it's not that bad.

[67GTA]

it varies, but anywhere from 6 to 12 or so

So in theory if two or three big players quit, Kubuntu will probably disappear?

[Qqmike]

I'm not crazy about change in this context. Let's keep this Kubuntu deal the way it is! Or at least keep Kubuntu distinct, not merged into Debian. Where's that blue money? Speak up to Shuttleworth (or however you spell it), he needs a lesson in growing up. What would he do without all his money?

[GreyGeek]

"Not my circus -- not my monkey".


However ...



People can move from Kubuntu to Debian with KDE, and the ones who prefer newer versions of desktop packages, along with the occasional bug, can run their KDE on Debian unstable. I made that move about 4 years ago, and have never had cause to regret it. And you get a version upgrade every 6 hours, if you want it.

Interesting you you mentioned that. You've mentioned that before and I while I was downloading Debian 8.0 KDELive yesterday I thought about you and how much you contribute to this forum even though you don't run Kubuntu.

I like Kubuntu because KDE has been my preferred GUI since Sept of 1998, when SuSE released 5.3 with KDE beta 1.0, and IMO Kubuntu has the best implementation of KDE.

The move to Debian will be sooner than later because Ubuntu is going with Mir and Kubuntu is going with Weyland, among other differences. Add to that the fact that Shuttlesworth's binary license scheme, which would put a price tag on Kubuntu ISOs or force it to move to Debian, and the die is cast. Kubuntu moves or dies.

Perhaps a better use of developers time could be adding better integration, spit, polish and branding to Debian KDE Live.

[claydoh]

Apart from Jonathan, how many other Kubuntu devs are there? I know it has always been a small team.

it varies, but anywhere from 6 to 12 or so

[67GTA]

Apart from Jonathan, how many other Kubuntu devs are there? I know it has always been a small team.

[dibl]

"Not my circus -- not my monkey".


However ...

Yes, but not based on Ubuntu. The sooner Kubuntu moves upstream to Debian, while painful at first, will be best in the long run.

People can move from Kubuntu to Debian with KDE, and the ones who prefer newer versions of desktop packages, along with the occasional bug, can run their KDE on Debian unstable. I made that move about 4 years ago, and have never had cause to regret it. And you get a version upgrade every 6 hours, if you want it.

[oshunluvr]

Personally - I'm not expert at any level and don't really have a lot of dogs in this hunt - but what I see that Ubuntu provides is a plethora of packages and programs that I don't have to build myself. I really don't have prejudices against a particular toolkit or DE, I just like KDE better and I find QT to be better as well (but I don't know if I could explain why with much logic).

Honestly, I would have left Kubuntu (because of Canonical shenanigans) a long time ago if there were a better choice that wouldn't be a huge reduction in functionality - but there isn't. Not yet anyway. For example KaOS is clean, pretty and solid - but only a few 1000 packages vs. our 70,000+. That's a lot of missing choices. Having many choices is one of the main reasons I use Linux in the first place. When I find a cross-platform developed program I almost always see Windows, OSX, and Ubuntu as package choices. Occasionally Debian will be in there, but not often.

I think GG is right (welcome back BTW - I trust the Mrs. is right-as-reign again ) we'll have to move to Debian eventually. My hope is once this happens, that developers move with us or at least that Kubuntu (under a new name of course) retains some Ubuntu compatibility.

I know if I were Jonathan, I would be moving to another base as we speak. No friggin' way would I take that kind of back-stabbing underhanded BS from that turd Shuttleworth. Too bad too - Linux needs corporate champions if it's ever going to grow beyond being the third choice.

[GreyGeek]

...

There's so much good going for Kubuntu. Kubuntu has done immense service to its users. Is it not possible to build on this base going forward while disentangling Kubuntu from Canonical?

Yes, but not based on Ubuntu. The sooner Kubuntu moves upstream to Debian, while painful at first, will be best in the long run.

[GreyGeek]

http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/201...rtunities.html

and

http://scarlettgatelyclark.com/2015/...ntu-developer/

Jon is the person who brought KDE to Ubuntu, and Ubuntu to KDE, and has always functioned as a bridge between the two projects and the two communities. He will continue to do this as long as he is able, and we rely on his faithfulness for the success of Kubuntu. He is the magnet who draws new developers to us, and his loss would spell the end of Kubuntu-the-project.

Serious indeed. Scarlett announced that she would end her packaging work.

IMO, killing Kubuntu is Shuttlesworth's goal. Will he succeed by default?

[Rich Oliver]

Well I've got no time for Canonical, I consider them harmful to the future of the Linux Desktop, which is something I care about a lot. I personally would have been a lot more involved with Kubuntu if it hadn't been for the intransigence of Canonical on switching to systemd. I want an accessible desktop, that's easy for new people to Linux to use and easy for children to learn on. I recently installed Kubuntu 14.04 on a netbook for a friend's five year old daughter and she's away, doing amazing stuff in Libreoffice Draw. But I also want a desktop that facilitates the power user and the developer. Kubuntu has or will shortly have:

1 Linux, systemd and wayland the core opensource components of the future open-source operating systems.

2 KDE: the best Desktop GUI for the Desktop. I don't like KDE's QT dependence, it further complicates the technology stack, but overall KDE is the clear choice for Desktop and Laptop GUI.

3 Video and other proprietary codecs that work out of the box. This seemingly small detail is extremely important. There's a lot of good things about Opensuse, but the fact that the codecs are always stopping working and create dependency problems is a real deal breaker. If you're supporting an OS on multiple peoples machines, you haven't got time to keep fannying around just to get an mp4 to open.

4 Debian base: Gives access to a huge range of executables and embeds us in the wider Debian Linux community. Helps interoperability with Steam.

5 Desktop focused. We need a Linux desktop for the desktop, not a test-bed for servers or a captive user base to be cynically leveraged to get into the phone and tablet market. I could use Windows 8 if I were were happy to be treated with such contempt as a desktop user and a developer.

There's so much good going for Kubuntu. Kubuntu has done immense service to its users. Is it not possible to build on this base going forward while disentangling Kubuntu from Canonical?

[InsideJob]

I've got my own codes and rules that corporate entities have to obey, Like I'm supposed to be upset someone won't allow me to provide free content for their website or free programming for their operating system. If the corporation doesn't like it, that's just too bad. Rules are rules and human entities are superior in every way to corporate entities. Human entities have God-given rights that no CoC or ToS can alienate them from. Corporate entities only have legal rights.

So seig heill the homeleand, fatherland and motherland Canonical. Your corporation will never be a "community".

[claydoh]

http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/201...rtunities.html

and

http://scarlettgatelyclark.com/2015/...ntu-developer/