The madness of idiocy

[xennex81]

I am wondering why I post things when they are no longer relevant to anyone.

Except my former self.

[xennex81]

I like for this forum to turn on the "delete" flag for these messages .

[xennex81]

Okay something relevant to write. Why does "plasma-desktop" take up often 50% CPU on a system that is rather fresh from boot, and I am doing nothing special at all?

[Wheel Inventor]

When searching...

When searching with: 'kde plasma-desktop cpu load'. A hit from the KDE forums: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=110294

It is a good start point:

- the thread starter is telling his/hers hardware (hint )
- what he/she has been tried
- there are tips to what to try/check

[xennex81]

Yeah, but doing that kind of troubleshooting is more of a developer thing. I am developing myself, but I cannot spend all my time or even such a large part of my time in debugging things or testing things or solving things that can hardly be called a thing that a user of a software should do.

You have to prioritize, you know. There are scores and scores of people who are better suited, due to prior experience and the like, to doing that sort of thing at this point or junction in space/time. Doing that thing myself would just be a waste of time, seeing as that I also have no need this moment for learning the details of the implementation or several other things related to learning how the system is constructed, or how it can be troubleshooted, which is basically the same thing most often.

You just can't spend your time on doing stuff that other people should have done, or ought to do, being the developers of these systems.

I just have a basic Kubuntu install with nothing special, an old probably well supported GPU chip, and this Plasma (4) is constantly dragging its feet after a while. One time I believe it was a ksysguardd program that was making the rounds through my processing cycles. I killed it, things improved.

But I have few other tools other than killing things .

[SecretCode]

*tries not to get involved*
*fails*

Yeah, but doing that kind of troubleshooting is more of a developer thing. I am developing myself, but I cannot spend all my time or even such a large part of my time in debugging things or testing things or solving things that can hardly be called a thing that a user of a software should do.

You have to prioritize, you know.

Other people on this forum, and packagers and maintainers and developers, also have to prioritise.

And if this issue is not important enough to the user to provide the information that Wheel Inventor hinted at, or to have done some initial searches, then it's not important to them either.

[NickStone]

Yeah, but doing that kind of troubleshooting is more of a developer thing. I am developing myself, but I cannot spend all my time or even such a large part of my time in debugging things or testing things or solving things that can hardly be called a thing that a user of a software should do.

If your not willing to solve computer issues yourself (with help from the community) may I suggest you return to Windows.

[Qqmike]

This is a no-brainer.
(1) Good luck with Windows (or any OS)--they all have things you must fix/tweak/adjust/cope with (I maintain a Windows 8.1 system, I know what I'm talking about).
(2) If this is how you feel, xennex81, why bother even posting anything here? Really, no offense, but what's the purpose, the point, if it is not constructive to solve a problem? (I notice you deleted that wild, lengthy OP you originally posted ...)

[GreyGeek]

In the early days of Linux, which I remember very well, the mantra was that the user collected data related to application failures and posted it to bugzillas related to that software. Developers of that app would peruse the bugzilla and use the information therein to debug their software. IOW, the users were the beta testers in a quid quo pro for free software (and source).

Things changed as Windows users moved to Linux and continued to use the "reporting" methods that they used in Windows, rant in forums. From personal experience what I can tell you is that Developers are people too, and have families and financial obligations even though most contribute their time, money and equipment to writing GPL software that everyone and anyone can enjoy at no monetary cost to themselves. (I was paid $80/hr or more to write code. That's how much my time was worth when I contributed to Linux apps and distros.) What developers CANNOT do is visit the tens of thousands of Internet forums, talk-backs, comments sections, etc..., in a vain attempt to glean information out of what are essentially worthless complaints.

In Linux, if you can contribute GPL code fantastic! If you can help a coder debug, or help a distro deliver product fantastic! If you have neither time nor talent for those two activities you can always contribute $$$ to a distro or app of your choice. If you can't do that, and you still use GPL applications you have one remaining obligation: use the GPL code in peace or move to a different platform. What is NOT appreciated is a worthless rant in any forum.

Here at KFN we get all kinds of questions. Some folks are noticeably irritated. Their time is worth something to them. We understand that. But, everyone here on KFN is CONTRIBUTING their time and talents to help folks having problems. Why? To help pay back, or forward, for the Linux kernel, the KDE desktop and the tens of thousands of excellent applications in the repository. So, when posting a complaint it would be a LOT easier if adequate information relating to your problem was posted instead of vitriol, bile, accusations and inventiveness. One answer you won't get here at KFN is RTFM, even it it would apply in many situations.

[Feathers McGraw]

Well said GreyGeek

[claydoh]

In the early days of Linux, which I remember very well, the mantra was that the user collected data related to application failures and posted it to bugzillas related to that software. Developers of that app would peruse the bugzilla and use the information therein to debug their software. IOW, the users were the beta testers in a quid quo pro for free software (and source).

Things changed as Windows users moved to Linux and continued to use the "reporting" methods that they used in Windows, rant in forums. From personal experience what I can tell you is that Developers are people too, and have families and financial obligations even though most contribute their time, money and equipment to writing GPL software that everyone and anyone can enjoy at no monetary cost to themselves. (I was paid $80/hr or more to write code. That's how much my time was worth when I contributed to Linux apps and distros.) What developers CANNOT do is visit the tens of thousands of Internet forums, talk-backs, comments sections, etc..., in a vain attempt to glean information out of what are essentially worthless complaints.

In Linux, if you can contribute GPL code fantastic! If you can help a coder debug, or help a distro deliver product fantastic! If you have neither time nor talent for those two activities you can always contribute $$$ to a distro or app of your choice. If you can't do that, and you still use GPL applications you have one remaining obligation: use the GPL code in peace or move to a different platform. What is NOT appreciated is a worthless rant in any forum.

Here at KFN we get all kinds of questions. Some folks are noticeably irritated. Their time is worth something to them. We understand that. But, everyone here on KFN is CONTRIBUTING their time and talents to help folks having problems. Why? To help pay back, or forward, for the Linux kernel, the KDE desktop and the tens of thousands of excellent applications in the repository. So, when posting a complaint it would be a LOT easier if adequate information relating to your problem was posted instead of vitriol, bile, accusations and inventiveness. One answer you won't get here at KFN is RTFM, even it it would apply in many situations.

If there was a +1 button, you's have 10,000,000,384 of them for a well said, level headed piece.
I would only add the action of reporting bugs if one thinks they are able to do that as well.

xennex81, I do hope you do not take any of this feedback with any negativity, as none is intended here.

[xennex81]

Nah, I don't take this personally. What I say is not even personal.

It's just that, things are different.

If I am complaining, I am just pointing to a structural anomaly so to speak, that is not anyone's fault in isolation, but it is about how this system of support and development is constructed.

Some things are just designed (not talking about the software itself, but rather the way of developing / maintaining etc. that is also related to GPL, whatnot...) to cause endless and eternal frustration all around.

It is only regular so to speak, and expected, and inadvertible, that such frustration would continually pour into forums such as these. Perhaps you are saying that is my fault, or I should look elsewhere. But that is like saying "if you don't like this country (where you were born in), you are free to leave."

That is not the way to change things. And I guess "getting frustrated" is also not a "smart" thing to do but it happens. I guess it depends.

On your time in life, your situation, etcetera. Let's just say that I feel I speak for everyone, and everyone is getting frustrated in one way or another a lot of the time, most swallow it, or try to. On every forum where developers (or even when those are not around, as is usually the case).....

I mean, let me give the example of the Opera forums of the Opera browser. For some weird reason they dumped the entire old codebase (of Opera 12.14 - 12.16) and went with something entirely new based on that Chrome thing (Webkit). Remarkably (? LOL) most users were mad beyond measure.

And also not very remarkably, most complaints (and there were lots and still are) were not welcomed. Because the developers themselves (some of which were active on the forum as well, a rare thing of course in the Linux world, for that matter perhaps.....) were feeling bad and guilty about the change already, and were not very keen on having it repeated to them 20 times a day what a lousy choice they had made.

But that doesn't help the users who were mad. They had a right to be mad.

Some things you cannot just, you just cannot change by saying a 1000 times over "don't complain" "be constructive". People need a way to vent. And where do you vent? You vent on these here forums, for example. It is just not something you can change like that. I have heard the complaints about the complaints a million times already all over the tech world, mostly open source related things of course. But that doesn't change things. Let's say the complaints about the complaints are not constructive .

[xennex81]

Most people who complain just want to be heard, nothing more. So let me hear you then: I can understand that regular repetitions of the same flaming and sneering and insulting doesn't make you a more happy developer/maintainer/afficionado. I can understand that it is a condition you suffer from as well because you'd rather hear affirmative remarks and you didn't go here and contribute your time to be flamed for it. (Just speaking of everyone in general). Being exposed to a community or perhaps lack of community where you are expected to be some kind of public figure even answering complaints from random strangers you did not choose to associate with is not the best way to stay happy I guess.

[claydoh]

Nah, I don't take this personally. What I say is not even personal.

It's just that, things are different.

If I am complaining, I am just pointing to a structural anomaly so to speak, that is not anyone's fault in isolation, but it is about how this system of support and development is constructed.

Some things are just designed (not talking about the software itself, but rather the way of developing / maintaining etc. that is also related to GPL, whatnot...) to cause endless and eternal frustration all around.

It is only regular so to speak, and expected, and inadvertible, that such frustration would continually pour into forums such as these. Perhaps you are saying that is my fault, or I should look elsewhere. But that is like saying "if you don't like this country (where you were born in), you are free to leave.

No, what we are trying to say is that yes, things are *not* going to be the same, especially when using something new. There *will* be different ways of doing things, and many of them. We won't be mad if someone does not care for KDE, for example, as a desktop, or a particular distro doesn't fit what one needs, etc etc. As long as you are comfortable, that is ultimately what is important. We here, as volunteers (and *all* of us are volunteers) do try to help, even if it not about Kubuntu, if we can.

I think the overall volunteerness and openness of the f/oss world is perhaps the piece of the puzzle you may be missing here. I will get to that a bit later in regards to your Opera example below.
Another is simply the fact that one has to learn new things. My landlady was having trouble connecting to a shared printer (we share internet access/wifi, so I let her use mine when needed). I took her new laptop and said I would take a look at it. Windows 8. I have not had a Windows OS on my hardware since 2002, and have minimal experience with Vista/7. I am just a , imo, an ever so slightly advanced Desktop Linux User. I could not for the life of me figure out how to get to a desktop on the thing, and had to go and learn this. I was not mad (well, maybe a tiny bit ), but not being 100% sure of what you are ranting/complaining/venting/annoyed by, I will guess that this is a big part of it.

Just saying that something is wrong/weird/different/blah blah is something we do not find constructive, as it is essentially useless unless there is some background or goals to go with it.

That is not the way to change things. And I guess "getting frustrated" is also not a "smart" thing to do but it happens. I guess it depends.

On your time in life, your situation, etcetera. Let's just say that I feel I speak for everyone, and everyone is getting frustrated in one way or another a lot of the time, most swallow it, or try to. On every forum where developers (or even when those are not around, as is usually the case).....

I mean, let me give the example of the Opera forums of the Opera browser. For some weird reason they dumped the entire old codebase (of Opera 12.14 - 12.16) and went with something entirely new based on that Chrome thing (Webkit). Remarkably (? LOL) most users were mad beyond measure.

And also not very remarkably, most complaints (and there were lots and still are) were not welcomed. Because the developers themselves (some of which were active on the forum as well, a rare thing of course in the Linux world, for that matter perhaps.....) were feeling bad and guilty about the change already, and were not very keen on having it repeated to them 20 times a day what a lousy choice they had made.

But that doesn't help the users who were mad. They had a right to be mad.

Sure they do have the right to be mad, it is the internet, that is in the bill of rights or something, i think, right along with cat pics

But here I will use KDE as a counterexample. Back in 2008, KDE went from a hacked-into-stability version 3.5 to a new underlying platform, called Plasma, for version 4.0. The mainly volunteer developers got together and figured out what they needed to doout in the open , what they wanted to do, etc out in the open, went to coding things out in the open, released test versions out in the open for all to see where it was going, warts and all. Kubuntu was the first to release this as the default KDE version with version 8.10, the next release after a solid KDE3 version 8.04. Even with pre-release live cd images (as well as a tech preview based on 8.04), and ample warnings on what was going to happen for Kubuntu users, how it would not be feature-complete in relation to KDE3, and even making it so that users had to manually force the upgrade to Plasma, of course there was backlash. Yes, some this could have been handled better, I am sure, and many lessons were learned for what is currently happening with Plasma 5.

( I won't even get into the savage ferocity Opera fans have been known to show - they are a unique and wonderful thing- but they in the end had no real insight/input as to the why's and how's and the what's of what the browser's owners needs and desires, ultimately.)

Some things you cannot just, you just cannot change by saying a 1000 times over "don't complain" "be constructive". People need a way to vent. And where do you vent? You vent on these here forums, for example. It is just not something you can change like that. I have heard the complaints about the complaints a million times already all over the tech world, mostly open source related things of course. (NOT FINISHED)

Thing is, I have no real idea what you are venting about, really. That is the "be constructive" thing, to me. A waste of my time without any context, especially since I am still getting over a serious case of food poisoning the past 4 days. But here I am, here we are, with ears.

But do expect friendly vent-backs.

[claydoh]

Most people who complain just want to be heard, nothing more. So let me hear you then: I can understand that regular repetitions of the same flaming and sneering and insulting doesn't make you a more happy developer/maintainer/afficionado. I can understand that it is a condition you suffer from as well because you'd rather hear affirmative remarks and you didn't go here and contribute your time to be flamed for it. (Just speaking of everyone in general). Being exposed to a community or perhaps lack of community where you are expected to be some kind of public figure even answering complaints from random strangers you did not choose to associate with is not the best way to stay happy I guess.

Most people come here to find the answer to a question or a problem - these are not necessarily complaints

I still wonder what specifically what your context is, since we are a pretty ant-flaming, anti-insulting sort of place here, by desire and design. I would not have joined this place if it were.

I chose to associate with random strangers. Some random strangers helped me out many a time, and random strangers made something cool I now use every day. I have had the pleasure of meeting a number of these no longer random and no longer strange ( I think ) people in person simply for some of the (imo) small things I have done here and the release notes and other wiki pages I worked on in the past.

Sigh. I am now feeling a bit insulted here, even if it is not the intent. Can't tell, though.