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**kjjjjshab** · Jun 09, 2009, 04:51 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Kind of like the that Netflix box (Roku?) that runs linux but yet you can't stream Netflix movies under linux. Yeah, DRM is kinda-ish necessary for their failing business model, blah, blah, blah, still annoying.

**dibl** · Jun 09, 2009, 05:12 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by askrieger

Any suggestions?

That is sad.

Buy a TRENDnet router, I guess -- I love mine. My Linksys WRGT-54 died a month ago, and this new TRENDnet just works. No pretensions to anything but Windows, of course -- but hey, that's what we're accustomed to, right?

**Monster_user** · Jun 10, 2009, 02:13 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Isn't TrendNet bottom rung? That said, I haven't had any issues with my USB devices, aside from a lack of support in the GNU community (and with ndiswrapper fading away...).

**pookiebear** · Jun 14, 2009, 09:13 AM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by Monster_user

Isn't TrendNet bottom rung? That said, I haven't had any issues with my USB devices, aside from a lack of support in the GNU community (and with ndiswrapper fading away...).

get an old wrt54g and load dd-wrt on it. It is an open source firmware. Check their webpage for which versions of the wrt54g you need. Ebay it.

**dibl** · Jun 14, 2009, 09:37 AM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Yah, it was a wrt54g that died here. I think it died of old age -- it was run continuously for 5 years.

I don't think my TRENDnet 633GR is "bottom rung" -- maybe other TRENDnet routers have had problems. I saw an article in one of the PC rags that said they thought it was a little pricey for the features that are on it, but that it works just fine, and they reported it was $100.00, which is $20 more than I paid.

Mine is this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833156226

**abalone** · Jun 15, 2009, 07:21 AM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

<clueless blush>

In what way are routers OS-dependent?

</clueless blush>

**kjjjjshab** · Jun 15, 2009, 04:27 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

With most pre-n reviews I read, having the complimentary wireless card for the router made a huge positive performance difference... so in that way routers are OS-dependent, since obviously there are differing levels of support for various chips (Atheros, Broadcom, etc.).

**abalone** · Jun 15, 2009, 04:46 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Oh. I didn't know it'd make a difference. That's bad. Another complication. Going to stay wired, I guess.

**AboveTheLogic** · Jun 15, 2009, 05:56 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by kjjjjshab

With most pre-n reviews I read, having the complimentary wireless card for the router made a huge positive performance difference... so in that way routers are OS-dependent, since obviously there are differing levels of support for various chips (Atheros, Broadcom, etc.).

but still in that respect, its only OS limited in that the drivers for that device may not be available

standard cable/router setup is NOT OS limited, its just that you don't get to install whatever that software does, which you don't need anyways

All cable/dsl modems or routers I've seen have the ability to be setup through a web interface. I usually just discard whatever software that comes with it that they want me to install, simply because it is not necessary.

**kjjjjshab** · Jun 15, 2009, 07:34 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by AboveTheLogic

but still in that respect, its only OS limited in that the drivers for that device may not be available

standard cable/router setup is NOT OS limited, its just that you don't get to install whatever that software does, which you don't need anyways

All cable/dsl modems or routers I've seen have the ability to be setup through a web interface. I usually just discard whatever software that comes with it that they want me to install, simply because it is not necessary.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything about included software or setup, only performance. My D-Link router works just fine with the crappy card I got from Best Buy... but the absolute best performance would come from a matching D-Link card.

Of course this only relates really to add-on cards... built in is probably more difficult or impossible to match hardware to a specific router.

**Detonate** · Jun 16, 2009, 07:10 AM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by AboveTheLogic

All cable/dsl modems or routers I've seen have the ability to be setup through a web interface. I usually just discard whatever software that comes with it that they want me to install, simply because it is not necessary.

I did run into a Motorola cable modem/router supplied to one of my customers by Comcast for which I was never able to find a web interface page for setup. Customer was using it as both his modem and router for two PC's running XP. I never did figure out how to get to the setup for that device. customer wanted to use static IP's for his network, so we ended up purchasing a router and putting it between the PC's and the modem. I don't remember the exact model number now, but I do remember it was a Motorola. All others I have seen do have a way to set them up using a web interface page. The page for a Linksys is at 192.168.1.1.

**askrieger** · Jun 21, 2009, 02:40 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

This thread has gone in a different direction than I anticipated (which is fine). As I said I was able to get the thing working. That's when I discovered that Cisco Linksys USES free software in the firmware for the router,but does NOT support either Linux or BSD users in terms of the software they supply or the instructions that they provide.

They should. Obviously, if there are (a minimum of) several thousand Linux users who purchased their routers, we could exert some economic or other pressure on them. Unfortunately, since I already bought the product, I have no way to exert that pressure, unless the thing dies and I have to buy another one and even then one customer more or less is not going to cause them to change their policies. So, one possible way to convince them to become more Linux friendly would be to publicise the fact that they do not support the software that they use themselves. A boycott by a significant number of Linux users might accomplish that.

Alternatively, I was hoping that someone, with a better knowledge of legal matters than I. could make a case that they are violating the LETTER (as distinct from the SPIRIT) of the Free Software License and find a way to sue their !@#$es. That's the American way

**kjjjjshab** · Jun 21, 2009, 03:47 PM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

Originally posted by askrieger

...Alternatively, I was hoping that someone, with a better knowledge of legal matters than I. could make a case that they are violating the LETTER (as distinct from the SPIRIT) of the Free Software License and find a way to sue their !@#$es. That's the American way

I didn't think that was a violation at all... the Linux kernel is all about tivoization, right? And to somewhat poke on the subject some more, where exactly does a manufacturer stop with their support? Linux? the BSDs? OpenSolaris? Do they need to have a page dedicated to MINIX support

Boycott, sure. Sue? Meh. But like I said earlier, pretty frustrating nonetheless.

**DeathKitten** · Jun 22, 2009, 01:29 AM

Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds You

On the topic of legal response to the lack of *nix support for the end users... I think we need to see if they make the software/firmware they create from the open source base available for others to work with and redevelop. I do not believe they have any obligation to support the community's end users, but they likely have to make the results of benefiting from the community available to the community again to further develop. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of this.

On the topic of wireless routers/adapters support, here's how it works for those who are confused about the comments earlier in the thread about matching brands between routers and adapters. For each type of wireless, there's a set of standards the companies are obligated to meet in order to call their product A, B, G and/or N compatible. This in theory is what's supposed to make everything work with everything else, why they call it a standard. Where the problems arrise, and what allows the companies to differentiate their products in order to encourage the consumers to purchase the matching adapter from their brand is they add little proprietary additions to "improve" the end user experience, usually algorithms and tricks to make things seem like they're communicating better or faster. This alone wouldn't be too bad, as there is still a requirement to meet standards which allow every brand to communicate with each other on fairly similar footing.

Where the bigger problems arise is for the early adopters and the draft N standard. Because the details of the standard have not been completely worked out, and all the companies are vying for adoption of their ideas, techniques and patents so they can make bank by charging others to use them when they become part of the standards¹, this increases the chance of buying an N adapter from brand A and a router from brand B are going to have some issues. Where there are some parts of the standards already established, other parts are left open to interpretation on a company by company basis. For the most part, this isn't as horrible or wide open as my description makes it sound, but for most casual users who still find wireless networking up there with Magic and programming the VCR² on the mystical stuff that they'll never understand scale, the small snafus that arise from the growing pains of a draft standard are enough to scare most people away from trying anything other than sticking with one brand on their equipment. This also means that your network is going to be happier if you stick with the same brand.

¹ I suspect I'd be preaching to the choir in this forum if I started on my rants about the patent system in the US and other countries the US has bullied or peer pressured into applying similar laws and tactics.

² Yes I am old enough to be able to talk about this first hand, even if I'm only 25 years old.

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