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**Schwarzer Kater** · Jan 16, 2023, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

[…]
Here are my questions:

What are the system requirements for 22.10?

For example see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...emRequirements.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

Is there a timeline for the official release/upgrade to KDE 5.26? I read there is a way to install 5.26 now via a backport PPA but I would rather wait for any bugs to be worked out and get 5.26 when its officially released. I'm prioritizing stability and caution over jumping ahead. If it comes automatically via updates that is fine as I would prefer the update method over adding additional PPAs.

Not likely in 22.10 - use the backports, the latest bugfix (5.26.5) is already available there. And 5.26 is "officially" released - by KDE.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

I want to remove all of the snap components as I want to run just native Linux binaries without any sand boxing.
* How do I go about removing all of the snap components?... is there a guide for this?
* Will this limit functionality or will the system break when running updates/upgrades?
* Would this cause problems when installing/using other applications?
* Would this create any security vulnerabilities?
* Would I still use the standard software manager for OS, security, and kernel updates or would I limited to just the terminal?

- You could do it by hand in CLI or use something like my simple script to remove Snaps entirely and replace Firefox with the Mozilla binary (I don't see why it should not work with 22.10): https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...408#post667408
or follow https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...-without-snapd to replace Firefox with a PPA version.
- No, except you don't have Snaps anymore.

- No, but you would have to use traditional package managemant or Flatpaks instead, of course.
- Well… - you will loose the sandboxing of Firefox and other Snap applications (you could use Flatpaks or write Apparmor rules to regain specific security).
- Yes, you would still use Discover or CLI.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

Kubuntu 22.10 comes with the 5.19 kernel.
* Is there a way to select the 5.15 LTS kernel during the installation? […]

No.

**oshunluvr** · Jan 16, 2023, 08:10 AM

It seems Schwarzer Kater has answered all your questions so I'm going to point out a couple things:

22.10 is an interim release meaning it's support expires 9 months after release - July. You'll be forced to upgrade by then or continue with no supported updates.
22.04 LTS (Long Term Support) will be supported until April 2025.
22.04 Comes with kernel 5.15 and - as pointed out by my fellow esteemed forum member - you can upgrade to Plasma 5.26 anytime you like by enabling backports.

To me it is illogical, as a self described new user, to start with a version that expires in 5 months, doesn't have the kernel you wish to use, and has the same desktop environment (5.26.5) available as the version with more than 2 years of life left. It seems like you've selected the toughest path for no obvious benefit whereas 22.04 seems tailor made for you.

Another alternative - if you want one - is KDEneon, which myself and many others here use. It is based on 22.04 but has the latest updates and bug fixes to Plasma 5 before Kubuntu gets them. That can be a plus or minus depending on your viewpoint.

Regardless - welcome back to Kubuntu and to Kubuntu Forums. We look forward to your contributions.

**claydoh** · Jan 16, 2023, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

Is there a timeline for the official release/upgrade to KDE 5.26?

With a 6-month release cycle, for non-LTS *buntu, there are no big version bumps in Plasma (if any) via the main repositories.
Kubuntu do provide addon repos for those who do want some Plasma upgrades between distro upgrades.
The Backports PPA was created and maintained by Kubuntu, they do support it, but it is still considered optional and slightly 'use at your own risk'.
This repo has existed for roughly 15 or so years.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

5.26 when its officially released.

As mentioned,. 5.26 has been officially released by KDE, and are already at 5.26.5.
When the next Kubuntu (23.04) is released in April, it will have Plasma 5.27. I am not sure if they will backport that or not to 22.10.
22.10 becomes End of Life shortly after 23.04 is released, anyway - in July.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

* Would I still use the standard software manager for OS, security, and kernel updates or would I limited to just the terminal?

These GUI tools are all using the command line tools under the hood, no matter which distro you use. It does not matter which things you use, really. You can mix and match as desired.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

* I have a AMD RX 6800 XT video card should I use the 5.15 kernel or should I use a 6.x kernel (I plan on doing some gaming)? If I need a 6.x kernel, how do I go about installing it?

You should be fine with the 5.19 kernel in 22.10, really. I have an RX 6600 (not an XT), and I cannot see a difference in kernels at all,(comparing 22.04LTS and its 5.15 with 6.0 and 6.1 kernels). Had, actually, I just sold it this weekend

Bills piling up

There are addon sources for newer kernels - the Mainline kernel builds are popular, but over-rated imnsho, unless you have hardware that specifically needs support -- yours does not.
There is a GUI tool for this
https://github.com/bkw777/mainline
The cool thing about kernels is you normally keep mutiople versions, so it is easy to see if things work better or not.

As for gaming, what actually helps a lot more than a kernel are updated Mesa drivers - new features and improvements. (Ray tracing and such is coming, soon-ish!)
There are various PPAs for this, but which one is 'best' I can't say. it sort of depends on how bleeding edge you want, or need to go. But they are available.
This is the fairly stable-release one I usually use: https://launchpad.net/~kisak/+archive/ubuntu/kisak-mesa

**claydoh** · Jan 16, 2023, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

you can upgrade to Plasma 5.26 anytime you like by enabling backports.

Not for 22.04, at least not at the moment (would break upgrades to 22.10)

Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

22.04 Comes with kernel 5.15

22.04 LTS should be seeing regular kernel bumps soon, as is the norm with LTS releases. They don't stay at the original kernel the entire lifespan. it will be getting 5.19 around the time 23.04 is released iirc.

**oshunluvr** · Jan 16, 2023, 11:29 AM

Yeah, looks like 5.24.5 is the latest in backports ATM. That makes KDEneon more appealing.

IIRC, when a new kernel series is added to a LTS, you don't automatically get the new series until you install it first. But I could be wrong about that too. I rarely boot Kubuntu anymore.

--edit: At least here, my Kubuntu 22.04 is booting 5.15.0 but 5.19.0-28-generic is available for install
--edit 2: Just updated my 22.04 VM install and it's up to Plasma 5.24.7

**claydoh** · Jan 16, 2023, 12:04 PM

I have always gotten the HWE kernels, once that has been enabled (by neon in our case here). In neon 22.04, HWE is enabled by default - we have the meta-package linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04 which currently points to the 5.15, and the linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04-edge
pointing to the 5.19. hwe-edge meta-packages point at the new kernel a few months before things become official, for those feeling frisky, I guess.

oddly, despite documentation that *buntu LTS are supposed to have hwe enabled out of the box nowdays, even on the ".0" iso images, it does not seem to be the case in reality. Kubuntu doesn't seem to have the linux-image-generic-hwe-22.04-edge metapackage in the current iso image. But after looking, Ubuntu's images do

Very odd. I found a rabbit hole I wasn't looking for

Xubuntu and Lubuntu's images also do not have this.

**ghoultek** · Jan 20, 2023, 03:23 AM

Wow thank you guys. This was very helpful and insightful. Responses in a pseudo-jump around fashion.

@claydoh:
That rabbit hole reference was rather hilarious. It seems that hole might be an entry point into Pandora's hallway. Thank you for pointing out that Plasma 5.26 with 22.04 would break 22.10. That saved me from falling into that hole.

@oshunluvr:
I was considering whether I should go with Kubuntu (and old staple) or Neon. My perception, though not based on thorough investigation, leads me to believe that Neon would be either close to or on the bleeding edge of KDE. Its potential proximity to bleeding edge KDE means it would potentially introduce bugs to their end-users, inadvertently. Thus, Neon's end-users could encounter bugs before Kubuntu would have pushed it into its update stream. Keep in mind when I say bleeding edge KDE, I'm not talking about the unstable developer branch. I mean Neon's "stable" branch. I wanted to try out 5.26.x with its new panel features and updates, since Latte dock is going away.

@claydoh:
You should be fine with the 5.19 kernel in 22.10, really.
I'm finding that words like "fine" and "safe" have become gelatinous, semi-solid, relative terms instead of words with fixed meanings. I encountered lots of weird trouble and interaction between some 6.x kernels in Arch/Arch-variants and the Steam application. For example, my kid installed Manjaro KDE v21.3.7 that comes with 5.15 LTS kernel. After the OS install finished, he installed Steam and some games. He later did a full system update/upgrade that moved his OS up to v22.0.0 and he installed the 6.0.15 kernel. When he launched steam when first booted into the 6.0.15 kernel, Steam does a brief update. At this point some games run, while others no longer run. Weird... So, I reboot, select the 5.15 kernel, and runs Steam. Steam does another brief update and now NO games run. We try troubleshooting and researching. Within a day or two a 6.1.1-1 kernel is made available. So we upgrade to that new kernel. Steam does yet another brief update, but we are still stuck at NO games will run. Don't worry it gets weirder.

I have my kid pull down the latest ISO because the Manjaro KDE v22.0.0 ISO is now available. We do a clean install v22.0.0 and it comes with the 6.1.1-1 kernel by default (the 5.15 kernel is available for install separately post installation). We install steam and some games, and now some games run and some don't. We install and switch to the 5.15 kernel, steam does a tiny update, and NO games run. I've now done a mountain of testing, re-installs of Manjaro, and then moved on to Linux Mint v21 Cinnamon, Pop_OS v22.04, and Endeavor OS v12-22. Pop_OS v22.04 and Linux Mint v21 have worked, while Arch and its variants have some with oddities. This leads me to look for stability in a Distro/OS that will be used for gaming. Snaps (and Flatpaks) are going to slow down gaming performance (especially if Steam is installed via a Snap package), and would introduce yet another variable into the mix of weirdness. It has been suggested that I could downgrade the Mesa driver with a 6.x kernel and "it should be fine". I have not gone down that road yet as I'm expecting some other oddity to show its head.

So problems... Pop_OS is based on Gnome shell and Linux Mint is on Cinnamon (I'm know they XFCE but I did not bother with it), and I prefer KDE. I don't want to mess with specialty gaming distros like Nobara, which have their own issues. I would prefer to run normal kernels to avoid specialty kernels and any complexities they would bring with respect to updates/upgrades. I want good performance but I don't need to be in the top 1% of performance, hence I did not buy the very top end bleeding edge in hardware. Ray Tracing is a bit over rated IMO because game devs have been able to do very well with lighting effects without ray tracing and RT is a much heavier load on hardware with only limited visual benefit.

So, while you may have stumbled upon a rabbit hole, I've slipped through a worm hole, rolled around in Pandora's dark cellar, and have been trying to climb out of this "Dad. Linux is broke. Maybe we should run Windows 10 or maybe switch back to Nvidia" bizarro alternate reality on Earth 9. I need to get back to safe, secure, speedy Linux where I can run Steam and try to beat the monster that I created at this favorite games. My wife, asked me two days ago, why Windows 10 wants to do updates right before she goes to bed. Ugh...

I'm torn between whether to try out Neon or go with Kubuntu and do the work of ripping out the snap infrastructure... and having to do that anytime I do a re-install of the OS.

**ghoultek** · Jan 20, 2023, 03:58 AM

Guys... Fellas...
Something to think about... Here is a link to very brief news post over at KDE Neon:
https://blog.neon.kde.org/2022/09/26...-now-or-later/

Take a look at the response Twitter. Snap is bad... especially for my use case. For a daily driver OS snap has no usefulness to me.

**claydoh** · Jan 20, 2023, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

my kid installed Manjaro

Well, there is your problem, I think. Unfortunately, from what I have seen, this has not been the most stable or well run project in recent years. It has almost become a meme at this point.
https://manjarno.snorlax.sh/, among a few others. This is a good summary
But basically, they mess with Arch enough that it is not representative

Also, the general Arch and arch-y distros do tend to find the problems before anyone else, by their very nature, so when the more normal distros get them, things have been hammered a bit already, and necessary tweaks and patches have been figured out.

Originally posted by ghoultek View Post

Snap is bad... especially for my use case. For a daily driver OS snap has no usefulness to me.

Sure, maybe, maybe not. Many simply remove this. others use it quite successfully. If you believe *everything* on the internet at face value, *everything* sucks, 100% (including Manjaro!)

As a loooong-time neon user , as is oshunluvr we can attest to how well it does work.
But it is not perfect, and it does lack in some areas (it IS Ubuntu 22.04) and does often need some manual configuration, depending on the usage. It also can have problems with some Qt applications as Neon ships newer stuff that conflicts with some things in Ubuntu's repos, as well as some third party apps.
Of course Snaps, or flatpaks, won't have this sort of problem.

Snaps and flatpaks aren't necessarily going to reduce gaming performance, if they aren't running, or you don't have any installed, and not much differently than if you had any application running 'normally' in ther background when playing steam to begin with. I play steam games regularly with both FF and multiple Chrome profiles open and haven't noticed a thing. Maybe when I had 8Gb of ram.

*some* People who go on about GAaaAming "performance" seem to spend too much time looking at unrelated numbers than actually enjoying the games. Squeezing out that last bit of ram, which made zero bit of difference in the GPU's performance. etc. I used to sort of resemble that, a little bit

. I admit it is sort of necessary, considering I have never played a Steam game on Windows, and I just noticed my account is pushing 20 years

?? And I *still* stink at Half life

**oshunluvr** · Jan 20, 2023, 12:34 PM

Snap is removable, so it's a non-issue.

**claydoh** · Jan 20, 2023, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

Snap is removable, so it's a non-issue.

Agreed.
Every distro needs some amount of DIY to get it where one wants it.

**Snowhog** · Jan 20, 2023, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

Snap is removable, so it's a non-issue.

True, but be aware of the gotcha (it exists). See https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...-without-snapd and my post (#23).

**ghoultek** · Jan 20, 2023, 03:33 PM

Sure, maybe, maybe not. Many simply remove this. others use it quite successfully. If you believe *everything* on the internet at face value, *everything* sucks, 100% (including Manjaro!)

I don't believe everything I come across on the web. Manjaro was working for a while and then I did some reading and came across stuff like you linked. I figured I would install what I already knew and then work on researching alternatives. Well that plan got shot to hell real fast. I'm waist deep in distro research and testing and not much gaming at all.

With gaming, numbers are important if one wants to get the best performance out of their hardware and the best experience. Its an exercise in pushing the bang for buck intersection. There is an important reason why I would prefer native 64-bit Linux binaries when playing games on Linux. It means:
* no translation layers
* no Windows API wrappers
* no speed bumps
* less hoops to jump through
* less variables in the proverbial equation

Snaps and Flatpaks would be just another form of a wrapper. I'm happy we have projects like WINE and Proton, but if 64-bit native Linux binaries were used there is no need for them. Game dev shops are mostly hard locked into 2 camps and expanding into a 3rd: Windows, consoles, and expanding into mobile gaming. I don't like consoles and mobile gaming on a tiny screen is not something I'm interested in. Windows has become a PITA, thus here I am on Linux. There are a small number of game dev shops who release native Linux versions of their products. So far the best of them focuses mostly on porting Windows games to Linux and other platforms. The company is called Feral Interactive:
https://www.feralinteractive.com/en/

True, but be aware of the gotcha (it exists). See https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...-without-snapd and my post (#23).

This ^^ don't sound good.

Lastly, KDE Neon uses Snap and Flatpak, which brings me full circle. For my use case I have no need or desire to use sand boxing.

**Schwarzer Kater** · Jan 20, 2023, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Snowhog View Post

True, but be aware of the gotcha (it exists). See https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...-without-snapd and my post (#23).

The same goes for installing Firefox as a binary from Mozilla.org and blocking the (re-)installation of snapd in /etc/apt/preferences.d/ (https://www.kubuntuforums.net/forum/...408#post667408).

But in both scenarios you could always revert the blocking and reinstall snapd and Firefox Snap temporarily before upgrading to the next system release and get rid of them again afterwards!

KDE neon will probably not have this "problem" when upgrading to the next LTS base, because it uses the PPA for Firefox.

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