Oh Snap!

[Schwarzer Kater]

[…]
In my own use and testing, speed of flatpaks are hard to compare, unless you have old systems and spinning drives.
I can't tell, myself.

Disk space is also relative. If I am using a Gnome/Gtk app fia flatpak on a KDE system, it IS more disk space than so-called 'native' packages, but not always as much as you might think, depending on the application.
[…]

My experience with "containerized" formats (and older systems):

With Flatpaks there is practically no difference regarding speed compared to "native" packages. Flatpaks start faster than Snaps (and AppImages), of course - on older systems with HDDs this is more relevant the older the system gets (computing power wise and HDD/SDD wise - I hope this is correct English…). On brand-new, state-of-the-art systems the speed difference between Flatpaks and Snaps (and AppImages) becomes less relevant.

If you install just two or three Flatpaks the drive space used can be much more compared to "native" packages due to the fact that things like Mesa, GNOME Application Platform, Nvidia drivers and other necessary stuff for the application and your individual system have to be installed alongside as Flatpaks.
Because these "core" packages are only installed once this difference diminishes the more Flatpaks you install. Similar is true with Snaps. As a rule of thumb AppImages are bigger than "native" packages because they always have to contain everything they need in every single image individually (but they don't need extra drivers for an Nvidia GPU for example).
If drive space really is an important factor for you these days try to avoid all three of those "containerized" formats.

[Qqmike]

Fortunately, I (1) can't really understand all the technical issues being discussed here, and (2) can't relate to the issue itself: to Snap or not to snap!
I say, "fortunately," because -- so far -- I'm doing fine with my newly installed 22.04, Firefox included. I did read some introduction to Snap somewhere, but that's about it -- SO FAR!
(did notice some quirk when I downloaded some files using Firefox, but somehow got past it ok ...)
Ignorance * can be, at times, bliss *! ha-ha

[Brickfoot]

I'm really tired of Snap updates breaking Firefox!! What a joke. It makes me nervous about keeping my system updated.I can't think of any other Linux system I've used that had the same problem with Firefox over and over. What is the problem? Why can't anyone get it right?

Operating System: Kubuntu 22.04
KDE Plasma Version: 5.24.7
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.92.0
Qt Version: 5.15.3
Kernel Version: 5.15.0-67-generic (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11
Processors: 8 × Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM CPU @ 2.20GHz
Memory: 15.5 GiB of RAM
Graphics Processor: GeForce GT 555M/PCIe/SSE2

[Schwarzer Kater]

Just get rid of the Firefox Snap and replace it with a version from a PPA or the binary from Mozilla (or a Flatpak if you want to use a containerized version for some reason).

The only thing one has to be aware of is that before one release-upgrades to the next (LTS-) version of Kubuntu one has to make sure that neither snapd nor the Firefox Snap is blocked by APT-pinning then and snapd is (re-)installed.

Of course one can apply the changes regarding Firefox (and Snaps) again after a release-upgrade as yet - this seems to have become a never-ending cycle with *ubuntu…

I have several little scripts to do parts of this and if I have some spare time during the next weeks I will try to revise them to cover all scenarios I can think of and publish them here.
Unfortunatly I have not been fond of programming for over 40 years…

[GreyGeek]

Snapd is woven into Kubuntu and if one is not careful just removing snapd may leave a lot of snap detritus laying around your system. It used to be that almost a dozen loop devices were used as snapd devices and drivers. Then they switched to squashfs, which many people can't figure out how to remove. For those running BTRFS /snapd and many other snapd directories are btrfs subvolumes in /var, but they are attached to /.


A good method is shown on this link:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1280...uninstall-snap
BUT, if you have either FireFox or Chromium loaded then purge them first.

In Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (but it works also in the following releases till 22.04, that is the current one), I removed snapd following these steps:

# stop snapd services:
sudo systemctl stop snapd && sudo systemctl disable snapd
# purge snapd
sudo apt purge snapd

# remove no longer needed folders
rm -rf ~/snap
sudo rm -rf /snap /var/snap /var/lib/snapd /var/cache/snapd /usr/lib/snapd /root/snap

Then, to avoid that other applications may reinstall it (chromium-browser is an example of application that restores snapd even if installed via apt) you can create a file no-snap.pref by issuing:

sudo -H gedit /etc/apt/preferences.d/no-snap.pref and then copying the following content in it:
Package: snapd
Pin: release a=*
Pin-Priority: -10

Despite that, there are a couple files that you cannot remove because doing so will remove your desktop and many of its dependencies:
libsnapd-glib.so.1
xdg-desktop-portal

When I do "locate snapd" in a Konsole I get the following output:

$ locate snapd
/home/jerry/Documents/textfiles/snapd_depends_rdepends.txt
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsnapd-glib.so.1
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsnapd-glib.so.1.0.0
/usr/share/doc/libsnapd-glib1
/usr/share/doc/libsnapd-glib1/changelog.Debian.gz
/usr/share/doc/libsnapd-glib1/copyright
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsnapd-glib1:amd64.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsnapd-glib1:amd64.md5sums
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsnapd-glib1:amd64.shlibs
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsnapd-glib1:amd64.symbols
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libsnapd-glib1:amd64.triggers

I went to Mozilla's website and downloaded a binary version of FireFox from their "Advanced Users" section of their download page:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...-firefox-linux

The instructions are straight forward and easy to follow.

[Schwarzer Kater]

… or one could use Debian's instructions to install the binary from Mozilla.org - which are similar:
https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#From_Mozilla_binaries
That's what I have done several dozens of times after a fresh installation since Kubuntu 22.04 and what I used as basis for my scripts.

[claydoh]

xdg-desktop-portal

This one is necessary for other things unrelated to snaps and flatpaks (which is where the concept for XDG portals originated) - such as being able to use the KDE file picker in Firefox, for example. Plasma itself depends on this package, not snap or flatpak.
libsnapd-glib.so.1 is going to be hard to remove, but as a library, it isn't running or providing a service or anything, just a connector, and as far as I can see does not itself depend on snap stuff, so won't pull it in down the road. Though of course fans of conspiracy theories might think otherwise



If it helps, this is what neon use to pin the mozillateam PPA. Others who use this repo have similar files.

/etc/apt/preferences.d/org-kde-neon-net-launchpad-ppa-mozillateam-pin
(the name is not terribly important)

​# SPDX-License-Identifier: GPL-2.0-only OR GPL-3.0-only OR LicenseRef-KDE-Accepted-GPL
# SPDX-FileCopyrightText: 2022 Harald Sitter <sitter@kde.org>

Package: firefox
Pin: release o=LP-PPA-mozillateam
Pin-Priority: 550

Package: firefox-*
Pin: release o=LP-PPA-mozillateam
Pin-Priority: 550

Package: firefox-locale-*
Pin: release o=LP-PPA-mozillateam
Pin-Priority: 550​

[Brickfoot]

Thanks, it's great to know I have options. When I have time to study these I'm going to make some changes. However, since this is a soapbox I will say it's really too bad updating has to be this complicated. In my opinion the update process in Linux has always been one of the biggest advantages it has over that "other" O.S.
Thanks again for the help.

[Schwarzer Kater]

[…]
If it helps, this is what neon use to pin the mozillateam PPA. Others who use this repo have similar files.
[…]

It does, thank you very much!

I am currently on my MacBook and far away from my desktop computer at home - and therefore without the possibility to boot into KDE neon (and with no space left for an additional virtual machine) and between two funerals…
So I am using the free time to extend my Firefox installation script with a second option: to install Firefox from the Mozilla Team PPA (exactly like KDE neon does).

1. Do you know why they specify an additional Package: firefox-locale-* - wouln't be just Package: firefox-* sufficient?
(I left out the Package: firefox-locale-* part in my script so far.)

2. And generally: what is the reason for Package: firefox and Package: firefox-* and […] and not just Package: firefox*?
Is there a firefoxmakesmycomputerexplode package, for example?

[claydoh]

1. Do you know why they specify an additional Package: firefox-locale-* - wouln't be just Package: firefox-* sufficient?

No idea, Not sure if one works, while the other does not (in terms of apt reading the config) or it is just good practice or just a norm. My regex knowledge is utterly horrible.

2. And generally: what is the reason for Package: firefox and Package: firefox-* and […] and not just Package: firefox*?
Is there a firefoxmakesmycomputerexplode package, for example?

Yes - firefox-esr, for example. Which may explain #2......aaaaand I think this is the case
firefox-esr has its own set of locale packages, and there is at least one package with 'firefox' in the name that is not from mozilla

[Schwarzer Kater]

Yes: firefox-esr, of course!

Thanks - I think I will add the firefox-locale-* again, in case it is good practise or a norm or …

[jlittle]

(Since this has become a long-running thread about firefox and snaps, I'd like to add a little finding and opinion to the story...)

There's been several mentions of

install Firefox from the Mozilla Team PPA

An alternative is

I went to Mozilla's website and downloaded a binary version of FireFox from their "Advanced Users" section of their download page...

In my experience the Mozilla Team PPA was often far too slow; on one occasion the download took 20 minutes. The binary version sometimes updates in less than a second. (I imagine there's some cacheing magic happening when there's a new version.)

I suspect that the binary version, installed to /opt and started through /usr/local/bin, will avoid some problems during a release upgrade. Having purged snapd and having no /snap, will a release upgrade reinstall them?

[Schwarzer Kater]

I have had no chance to test that yet (but I suspect that, too) - perhaps I will get to that within the next week.

So far in my script that prepares a "de-snapped" Kubuntu for a release-upgrade all APT-pinnings in /etc/apt/preferences.d that block the installation of snapd and prefer the Firefox from the Mozilla Team PPA are removed and afterwards both snapd and the Firefox Snap are reinstalled (and the Snap support for Discover, too). I am uncertain yet if I will have to deinstall Firefox itself from the Mozilla Team PPA, too…

I will post here when I have had the time and possibility to test it at home.

PS: Just for your information - I am testing the scripts (and have already used variations of them for installations during the last year) with Kubuntu 20.04, 22.04 and 22.10.
I have refrained from testing them with any other Ubuntu "Flavours" or Ubuntu itself due to the amount of time that takes…

[claydoh]

In my experience the Mozilla Team PPA was often far too slow; on one occasion the download took 20 minutes. The binary version sometimes updates in less than a second. (I imagine there's some cacheing magic happening when there's a new version.)

The PPA server(s) can get bogged down, which I see fairly often. I am sure your physical location doesn't help.
Oddly, the ipv6 address for ppa.launchpadcontent.net is in Massachusetts, while the ipv4 is in in London
Mozilla will have a much greater set of local mirrors worldwide, probably as many as Ubuntu proper have, or more, so that is a consideration worth factoring when deciding on where to source your FF from.

[Brickfoot]

OK I'm getting very confused. Based on what I'm reading I qualify as a newbie. I'm sure y'all know what you're talking about but it makes me too nervous to try. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but will there be a solution for a "newbie" that hates Snap's hold on Kubuntu (or maybe just Firefox)? I'm patient.
Very interesting reading, thanks.