KDE/Xorg no longer starts with system

[Spadge]

IME, intermittent problems are usually hardware. You don't state PC type: lap or desk?

If you ran sudo update && sudo dist-upgrade and got not errors, then software is at least installed. IMO, those initial errors don't look like nvidia ones, rather X related.

It's a dual-boot (Win7 + Kubuntu 14.04) desktop with nvidia 660ti graphics. Water cooled CPU with lots of fans, so I know it's not a heat problem. Also, it mostly seems to warm-boot OK and the problem seems to crop up when cold-booting. So normally I'd be thinking PSU, except that's pretty new and well up to the job in hand. Could be something loose inside, but then I'd expect that to manifest itself more if you know what I mean.

I'll try the `apt-get install --reinstall kubuntu-desktop` thing and see how that goes.

The whole thing may remove itself when 14.10 replaces 14.04 anyway. Heck, I might even fresh install that rather than upgrade to it. Although tbh I live in fear of fresh installs ...

[Spadge]

I've used kubuntu for years and never had a problem with dist-upgrade. It sounds like the update didn't complete correctly.

Under normal circumstances I'd try to nail down the individual issues but it sounds like you have many. In which case here is what I would do.

1. apt-get update
2. apt-get upgrade
3. apt-get install --reinstall kubuntu-desktop

After which you should be much happier.

I've had to do this before after nuking some files with a rogue script I was writing.

Well that's interesting. That's put lightdm back on and I had to startx after logging in on the CLI.

[Spadge]

Let's see how this goes, shall we?

I just took the PC apart and gave it all a good clean up.

Last few lines of dmesg:

[    6.690060] init: plymouth-upstart-bridge main process ended, respawning
[    6.692858] init: plymouth-upstart-bridge main process (1371) terminated with status 1
[    6.692865] init: plymouth-upstart-bridge main process ended, respawning
[    7.154480] r8169 0000:04:00.0 eth0: link up
[    7.154487] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): eth0: link becomes ready
[   15.004526] EXT4-fs (sdc2): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)

So that looks pretty quick to me.

I will keep monitoring and see if I get the startup problem recur.

[SteveRiley]

to be honest i didnt know there is a difference!

Also note that apt-get dist-upgrade (Debian and derivates) and zypper dist-upgrade (SUSE and its variants) are very different from one another.

[Spadge]

BusID          "PCI:1:0:0"

in the Device stanza of xorg.conf might have fixed it.

I will keep watching it, but it's not failed since I put it in yet.

[claydoh]

IIRC, Muon uses apt upgrade, not apt dist-upgrade.

Just to clarify, Muon does run dist-upgrade. In ubuntu, I don't think you'd ever get a new kernel without dist-upgrade, or new dependencies when installing a new KDE release. These all get installed (after a prompt) using the update manager or Muon

[Spadge]

BusID          "PCI:1:0:0"

in the Device stanza of xorg.conf might have fixed it.

I will keep watching it, but it's not failed since I put it in yet.

I spoke too soon. It failed at startup again today.

I'll upgrade to Unicorn this weekend anyway, so it might be moot.

[Spadge]

I upgraded to Unicorn and have not seen the problem since.

"Thank you" to everyone who contributed their thoughts and ideas to this thread.

[millusions]

An achilles heel, dist-upgrade is not; for Kubuntu or other. One just needs to understand the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade.

       upgrade
           upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in /etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently
           installed with new versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed
           retrieved and installed. New versions of currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without changing the install status of another package will be left at their
           current version. An update must be performed first so that apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available.

       dist-upgrade
           dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart"
           conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade command may
           therefore remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a
           mechanism for overriding the general settings for individual packages.

dist-upgrade is the only thing I use, and my system is, has been, and will remain, rock solid stable.

ok Snow, you're the expert, im going to take the plunge and run this on my server, it claims to have 70 updates everytime i ssh to it...
if you're around, could u tell me what settings should i have for updates?

this is my current setting:



i wont lie, im a little nervous because everything is configured rather nicely at the moment

[Snowhog]

...could u tell me what settings should i have for updates?

this is my current setting:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5489[/ATTACH]

i wont lie, im a little nervous because everything is configured rather nicely at the moment

"Should have" is subjective, and, I don't have a server; I have to laptops. But on both, these are my settings:


You and you alone have to decide if you want to change your settings and use dist-upgrade instead of upgrade. As I said, it is important that one understand the difference.

[claydoh]

ok Snow, you're the expert, im going to take the plunge and run this on my server, it claims to have 70 updates everytime i ssh to it...
if you're around, could u tell me what settings should i have for updates?

this is my current setting:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5489[/ATTACH]

i wont lie, im a little nervous because everything is configured rather nicely at the moment

From the above screenshot, you have it set to not get any updates at all that are not purely security-related patches. I would recommend leaving the stock settings for this so you do get the proper updates. However, there is no harm in using the settings you have if this fits your use case.

So, here is what each update section means:

• Important security updates - this one is self-explanatory, and should be enabled
• Recommended updates - these are regular, non-security updates - this should also be left enabled
• Pre-release updates - these are where Recommended Updates go for testing before being officially released - most people will leave this disabled
• Unsupported updates - the so-called Ubuntu Backports - though this is enabled by default, it isn't actually in use unless one specifically picks to install an updated package from it, so really it doesn't matter if this one is disabled. This askubuntu topic might help with the decision on this.

Basically, Ubuntu have a fairly sane set of default system defaults, which are quite useful for most everyone, but we still can edit many things to fit what we want or need

[SteveRiley]

i wont lie, im a little nervous because everything is configured rather nicely at the moment

Open a console window and run:

apt-get -s dist-upgrade

This is a simulation run. It will display the entire output as if the command were to actually perform work -- but actually does no work. Then you can evaluate the output and determine exactly what will happen when you run it for real, using:

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Note that you don't need to specify sudo when performing a simulation run.

[millusions]

thanks guys!

i did the -s run, big list of things.
im so not sure about this to be honest, why do i need a new kernel?

summary: 121 to upgrade, 4 to newly install, 0 to remove and 0 not to upgrade.

with my update settings. having only 'install important security updates' checked why does it need to install all this stuff?

for example:
ksysguardd [4:4.11.8-0ubuntu6] (4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64])
wget [1.15-1ubuntu1] (1.15-1ubuntu1.14.04.1 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64])
kinfocenter [4:4.11.8-0ubuntu6] (4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64]) [plasma-widgets-workspace:amd64 ]

how much of a security risk can kinfocenter be? or wget? there are some there that look usefull like cups and apt updates

i'll hit the wiki and not rush things. i just dont see those as important security updates so i will research my settings a little more..
at least i know now not to run upgrade

it's only a computer running Kubuntu 14.4 that's our 'server' nothing special about it

[claydoh]

wget has a cve http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2393-1/

as for kinfocenter and ksysguardd, they are part of an overall set called kde-workspace. There is an advisory for this as well https://www.kde.org/info/security/ad...20141106-1.txt,

Sometimes the patch for for the offending part involves rebuilding all the individual parts that come out of this base. This probably explains part of the 121 packages needing to be upgraded

Kernels, well those it is the same thing. A vulnerability is found and patched, even if small, fairly quickly for the most part.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/ is a good resource for individual packages, (that are not in a ppa) where you can see changelogs and other info
http://www.ubuntu.com/usn is for security related things

You can view changelogs for individual packages via a package manager, but sometimes I find that they don't always display, so them above urls are handy

[SteveRiley]

i did the -s run, big list of things.
summary: 121 to upgrade, 4 to newly install, 0 to remove and 0 not to upgrade.

with my update settings. having only 'install important security updates' checked why does it need to install all this stuff?

The command-line tools pay no attention to the settings in Muon or Synaptic. And in all respects, the command line tools -- once you invest the time to learn them -- are much superior to graphical programs for package management.

for example:
ksysguardd [4:4.11.8-0ubuntu6] (4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64])
wget [1.15-1ubuntu1] (1.15-1ubuntu1.14.04.1 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64])
kinfocenter [4:4.11.8-0ubuntu6] (4:4.11.11-0ubuntu0.2 Ubuntu:14.04/trusty-security [amd64]) [plasma-widgets-workspace:amd64 ]

KDE has a roughly monthly cadence of releasing updates to their software. Typically you'll want to accept these, as they involve many bug fixes and occasional new functionality.

im so not sure about this to be honest, why do i need a new kernel?
how much of a security risk can kinfocenter be? or wget? there are some there that look usefull like cups and apt updates

Claydoh already mentioned why a new kernel is always a good thing to accept.

i'll hit the wiki and not rush things. i just dont see those as important security updates so i will research my settings a little more..

You won't find much there, unfortunately. And unless you have specific reasons to, it's best not to override a package maintainer's decision as to whether an update is security-related. A lot of research goes into what is a security bug and what its particular level of criticality might be.