and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

[Guest]

as per usual, my dist-upgrade failed.

to start at the beginning: i kicked off the upgrade process (system settings->software..) and left my computer to do its job. upon returning to my computer, the kde notification panel told me that i had to restart to make the changes happen. i did so, upon which the system rebooted with only half the packages installed (probably even less). three hours and a manual upgrade attempt later the whole distribution seems weird and suboptimal, probably because some things are still missing..

my best guess as to why it failed is that a package replacement had to be forced (krsys?), though i have no direct evidence of this having caused the gui crash as i havent seen an error message.

i'm sorry for not being able to provide more information, but to be plain: this is quite clearly the dist-upgrade-gui's fault. its a badly written gui that doesn't even do the bare essentials properly (error handling) and that has in the past caused me a lot of headacke (the same has happened in all of the last three dist-upgrades). and it seems as if it is continuing to do so.

solution: 1. don't use the gui-upgrade-tool, 2. know linux/gnu/debian inside-out, 3. get a computer science degree.. quite some questionable advice.. in fact, after 13 years of using and contributing to linux, i've decided to dump it. its a piece of user-unfriendly software that i'm sick of wasting my time on.

[ardvark71]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

solution: 1. don't use the gui-upgrade-tool, 2. know linux/gnu/debian inside-out, 3. get a computer science degree.. quite some questionable advice.. in fact, after 13 years of using and contributing to linux, i've decided to dump it. its a piece of user-unfriendly software that i'm sick of wasting my time on.

Hi....

I do understand how you feel. I've been testing and using various distributions of Linux since 2001 and I know well the frustrations of dealing with an OS that lacks (to an extent, not entirely) the ease of use and operability that Windows is well known for. My biggest challenge in using Linux was during few months between October 2006 to March, 2007 when I used Ubuntu 5.10 as my sole operating system and learned, from very little experience, how to go about fixing bugs and installing software of (and from) different package types and sources, including the 'ol "make and make install." And if the software didn't work or work correctly, how to go about researching the problem on the internet and getting help from the folks at Ubuntu's forum. It was a pretty intense five months beginning to learn some of this but learn I did.

However, after five months of this, I began to grow tired of having to deal with the seemingly unending supply of little problems and glitches that would crop up and the fact that I missed some of the software that only works or works correctly in Windows, I decided to go back to Windows XP.

However, after giving Kubuntu 10.04 a try, (dual-booting with Vista,) I have been impressed on how much Ubuntu/kubuntu, and perhaps Linux as a whole, has improved since that time. All of the hardware on my laptop that I have used or tested so far has worked out of the box. Operating the scanner is not as good as it is in Windows but it does work. Still, this is a far cry from the days when I had my own non-profit (2001-2004) when we were using Red Hat 7.2 as our "standard issue" for those who wanted it installed on the systems we were giving away and what a chore it was trying to find hardware that was compatible with Linux at that time.

So, things have improved quite a bit. A lot of the problem has been with either non-existant or sub standard drivers for many different hardware devices although there is also a problem with poorly written software, as you have mentioned.

If at all possible, don't give up on Linux entirely. Take a breather and come back at a point in time later to see what has changed and what improvements have been and what remains to be done. Your contributions are important and they do make a difference.

Regards...

[The Liquidator]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Hmmmm.... your first post on this forum, after being a linux user for 13 years is to tell us what a load of crap our favourite operating system is

You appear to have left out no.4 - "ask for help"

I would say that attempting to upgrade a running system would inevitably be somewhat riskier than a clean install - you are after all attempting to upgrade a running system and I'm sure even windows wouldn't always get that right. That said, have you tried running

sudo dpkg --configure -a

which will usually reinstall improperly installed packages? That has been known to solve many problems such as this.

[chipbennett]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Hmmmm.... your first post on this forum, after being a linux user for 13 years is to tell us what a load of crap our favourite operating system is

You appear to have left out no.4 - "ask for help"

I would say that attempting to upgrade a running system would inevitably be somewhat riskier than a clean install - you are after all attempting to upgrade a running system and I'm sure even windows wouldn't always get that right. That said, have you tried running

sudo dpkg --configure -a

which will usually reinstall improperly installed packages? That has been known to solve many problems such as this.

(This is probably a dumb question)

Can I do this from a LiveCD session? I tried a dist-upgrade. The upgrader crashed during the last part of "clean up", and upon reboot this morning, I got some sort of recovery console (I can provide exact error message tonight, when I'm back at the laptop).

My hunch is that I need to re-install GRUB - which I know I can do from the LiveCD. But if it's some borked packages, can I fix that also, using sudo dpkg --configure a?

[The Liquidator]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Not a dumb question at all.

I wouldn't know how to go about fixing grub, sorry. But if by the console you mean you get <user name>@<computer name> then chances are grub is okay and you've got another problem, probably graphics.

First things first: Preferably connected to the net with a wired connection, Login at the prompt and type your password. Then type

sudo dpkg --configure-a

Password

You may then see activity whilst packages get sorted out.

Then for good measure

sudo apt-get update

to update the package list then

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Once everything has finished type

sudo reboot

To restart your machine.

With a bit of luck you might be up and running if not from the prompt type

startx

Let us know what error message you get

Edit: Also on the live cd point, do you have a separate home partition?

[chipbennett]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Not a dumb question at all.

I wouldn't know how to go about fixing grub, sorry.

I learned recently, when I migrated my install to a larger HDD.

But if by the console you mean you get <user name>@<computer name> then chances are grub is okay and you've got another problem, probably graphics.

If only. Unfortunately, I'm getting a prompt I've never seen before. It's either before, or part of, GRUB, as far as I can tell. (I only had a few seconds before leaving for work, so I wasn't able to diagnose fully - I just know that everything didn't go properly!)

First things first: Preferably connected to the net with a wired connection, Login at the prompt and type your password. Then type

sudo dpkg --configure-a

Password

You may then see activity whilst packages get sorted out.

Then for good measure

sudo apt-get update

to update the package list then

sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Once everything has finished type

sudo reboot

To restart your machine.

With a bit of luck you might be up and running if not from the prompt type

startx

Let us know what error message you get

Skipping this bit for the time being, as I'm definitely not getting into a Kubuntu login prompt.

Edit: Also on the live cd point, do you have a separate home partition?

Absolutely! I learned that one the hard way, a few years ago.

If all else fails, I'll re-install from the LiveCD. I'll just have to go in and copy various config files and third-party packages. I'd just like to avoid it; I'd rather spend tonight watching football.

[The Liquidator]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Actually over the weekend I upgrade the better half's aspire 1 to ubuntu 10.10. I used the live cd to do it as I find any software update to be incredibly slow with the SSD and expected a full upgrade to do this.

I got an error message straight after the BIOS post to the effect that grub could not be found. During the install I had accidentally put it an incorrect partition. The only thing that came to me was to reinstall. I'm sure there are other answers though.

If you can post the message you're getting maybe someone can help you.

[dibl]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

(This is probably a dumb question)

As was said long ago, "There are no dumb questions, only dumb situations resulting from the failure to ask a question."

Can I do this from a LiveCD session?

I believe the correct answer is "NO", however, as of the last version you could disconnect your computer from the Internet and use an Alternate CD, and do the upgrade, as said here (middle of the page).

[The Liquidator]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

The upgrade with the 10.10 rc alternate cd just didn't work for me this time around. Running the command produced no response at all. A disk check produced no errors and on boot the disk gave me the option to install. I decided to get the live cd instead, just in case there was another problem.

I hope they have now fixed it.

[toad]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Can I do this from a LiveCD session?

I believe the correct answer is "NO", however, as of the last version you could disconnect your computer from the Internet and use an Alternate CD, and do the upgrade, as said here (middle of the page).

I would have thought that it is quite possible. Stick in the live CD, chroot into the current, non-functioning /, mount proc and sysfs to get a complete environment and then reinstall grub and do your dpkg commands. Is there anything which should prevent this from working?

@ chipbennett - I have also had mixed fortunes with dist-upgrades over the years. So much so in fact that I switched to a rolling release distro. There is a number of them out there (aptosid, mint debian and archlinux come to mind). Just a thought...

[Guest]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Hmmmm.... your first post on this forum, after being a linux user for 13 years is to tell us what a load of crap our favourite operating system is

You appear to have left out no.4 - "ask for help"

i don't need to ask for help. i know linux inside out. heck, i've even worked on the linux kernel code. this is more of a descriptive post that may (though highly unlikely) reach one of the kubuntu developers and highlight the unreliable upgrading process of kubuntu.. something that even microsoft can do without causing a headache. and i don't think kubuntu is crap, its simply failing even on basics (dist-upgrade, dual monitor, sound, just to mention a few..).

as for the grub problem: you can simply "reinstall it" into the mbr, even from the livecd, though it may be a tad complicated. it'll be a lot easier if you can boot into one of the installed kubuntu installs..

see the following link for a detailed description on how you reinstall/set grub up:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

[chipbennett]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Can I do this from a LiveCD session?

I believe the correct answer is "NO", however, as of the last version you could disconnect your computer from the Internet and use an Alternate CD, and do the upgrade, as said here (middle of the page).

I would have thought that it is quite possible. Stick in the live CD, chroot into the current, non-functioning /, mount proc and sysfs to get a complete environment and then reinstall grub and do your dpkg commands. Is there anything which should prevent this from working?

Can you write this out in a way that someone who's not used half of those commands can understand and follow? I'd be happy to try, and then report back...

@ chipbennett - I have also had mixed fortunes with dist-upgrades over the years. So much so in fact that I switched to a rolling release distro. There is a number of them out there (aptosid, mint debian and archlinux come to mind). Just a thought...

Strangely, going from Hardy to Lucid proved to be no problem whatsoever. I normally wait a few weeks for dist-upgrade, just to make sure all the kinks are worked out. Didn't this time, because I didn't see too much that might potentially cause the upgrade to get borked. Oh well...

As for rolling-release distros: I like Kubuntu, and intend to stick with it, for better or for worse!

[chipbennett]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

If all else fails, I'll re-install from the LiveCD. I'll just have to go in and copy various config files and third-party packages. I'd just like to avoid it; I'd rather spend tonight watching football.

p.s. if I end up going this route, is there any benefit to moving to EXT4? Or should I just keep my data partition as EXT3?

[toad]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Stick in your live CD, mount your borked Kubuntu install partition and then do:

sudo chroot /path/to_mounted_kubuntu_install
sudo mount -t proc none /proc
sudo mount -t sysfs none /sys

And take it from there

[chipbennett]

Re: and again: the gui upgrade crashed..

Stick in your live CD, mount your borked Kubuntu install partition and then do:

sudo chroot /path/to_mounted_kubuntu_install
sudo mount -t proc none /proc
sudo mount -t sysfs none /sys

And take it from there

Oh, that's easy!

And then I just do the sudo dpkg --configure a?

I'll give it a go this evening. Fingers crossed!