Experiences installing in a VM

[WWDERW]

I 'tried' Oracle VirtualBox 6.0 on my iMac (I run VB 5.2.x) and found it didn't work well at all (for me). Window sizing was totally SNAFU. VB 5.2.x works great, and it's the versioning I'm sticking with. IIRC, reading about version 6.0.x, it was written for use on a Windows Host?

Not surprising that it didn't work well. I believe Apple has deprecated OpenGL for their METAL API and it's still an old one at that if I recall correctly. I don't know if it has been removed from Catalina or not. I'm pretty 32bit has been removed from Catalina.

[Snowhog]

I 'tried' Oracle VirtualBox 6.0 on my iMac (I run VB 5.2.x) and found it didn't work well at all (for me). Window sizing was totally SNAFU. VB 5.2.x works great, and it's the versioning I'm sticking with. IIRC, reading about version 6.0.x, it was written for use on a Windows Host?

[acheron]

Virtualbox changed their emulated graphics adapter in version 6.x. The new default on Linux VMs does not always work well. It looks like they dropped the ball badly on testing their changes.

See various threads on: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewforum.php?f=3

Some people have had luck changing the new 'Graphics Controller' option in VM settings to an alternative.

Virtualbox 5.x works well here.

[Snowhog]

Also a couple devs hang around here so maybe they'll jump in and fix it!

I'll admit that that isn't likely, but maybe -- maybe -- those here will bring it to the attention of those who 'could' fix it.

[oshunluvr]

Known yes, but again not a waste of time. Documenting issue for the next noob is always a good thing. Also a couple devs hang around here so maybe they'll jump in and fix it!

[Snowhog]

Documenting ones experience of a 'problem' is never wasted. Getting it to the right people is the challenge (it seems). I refer you (again) to my comment in post #4.

[markfilipak]

So, the problem(s) I related in my first install is/are known and old. Oh, my. That's not a good sign. I guess I wasted my time documenting my experiences. That makes me a little bitter.

[oshunluvr]

Yeah I've seen the window thing but it's movable and goes full screen easily enough if you drag it to the top of the installer window.

That's not possible in a VBox VM until the Guest Additions are run in the Guest (which is not possible during the installation).

Well, it accepts the change to full screen which causes it to offset to the left instead of the right. Meaning the hidden part is the left half of the column of "Installation Steps" is hidden instead of the part you need to do the install. It's been that way for as long as I remember, several years I think. Hasn't stopped my from installing Kubuntu in a VM even once.

Prior to relocating window:


After:

[Don B. Cilly]

Have you tried the pre-installed images osboxes provide?

[WWDERW]

I'm a little confused. If you are trying to limit Windows access to the internet, wouldn't it be better to have it within a VM and Linux as the host? If I'm reading it correctly, it sounds the other way around. I was the same and not wanting to have Windows access to the internet and at the time had mission critical programs and it was easier to sandbox it as a guest VM then as a host. I also had a video editor that I need to use back then as well (Premier) and I was able to use it just fine in a VM, but that does depend on the specs of the computer as well.

I do run Neon as a VM as that's where I do a lot of my developer work (mainly as a hobby for in house solutions) and I haven't had the issue that you are describing, however, I will say that Kubuntu does have one quirk with Vbox when it's the host and using a multimonitor display (I run 3 monitors) that is directly related to display and going full screen (not maximized, but truly full screen).

You shouldn't actually need the Guest Extensions to go full screen and not deal with that default VM size in any modern Linux distro as a guest as I do believe the Linux kernel does incorporate those drivers within Linux itself. Or atleast a set of drivers that when it "knows" it's in a VM and recognizes that it has a protocol to use. Now I think that applies to say 18.04 and later, I don't think say Mint 18 (which is 16.04 based) would have that, but I could be wrong, I've actually only dealt with Mint 17 and Mint 19.2 in recent memory. I've never installed Guest Additions on any Linux VM in the last 2 yrs.

I must say, I do prefer in most instances Kubuntu over Neon as a host and VMing Windows, but both have their what I will call "finishing" quirks. They are rough around the edges with some visual aspects.

[markfilipak]

As to the Kubuntu installer presenting it's screen 'oversized' and not moveable (from within a VirtualBox session for installation),

Other way round. The installer is too small (not its fault, not VBox's fault) but what the problem is: Its the wrong aspect. It needs to be 4:3 (e.g., 640x480, 800x600, etc.) so it fits in VBox's initial Guest screen. After installing the GA, the Guest window can be resized and reproportioned, but not until after installation and 1st boot. Point is: Since it's the wrong aspect (too wide), the button that continues from install waypoint to waypoint is offscreen to the right and can't be clicked.

... Your post is lengthy and covered several topics so I glossed over a couple details I think.

I intended it as verbatum testimony, not a trouble report

However, I absolutely was not joking about windows being a poor choice for a mission critical host.

I have no choice.

If you host Windows as a client on a Linux VM you have the ability to backup and restore and snapshot Windows with ease.

I do incremental image backups of the Windows Host. The Linux Guests (I have several VHDs), I simply copy with the image backups. Windows has to be the Host because of my work.

Additionally, clients are easily transported from one system to another. Assuming you kept a proper backup of your Windows VM, your system could die in a fire but you could install Linux in 10 minutes on any system and import the Windows VM and be up and running in less than 20 minutes. No way is that possible the other way around.

Of course it is. We disagree.

Plus the added security of the Linux host would make daily life easier.

I don't allow Windows through the Windows Firewall.

As far as networking issues, until you install the Linux host (whatever you choose) on bare metal and do some actual trouble-shooting of a network issue it's impossible to knwo what the outcome would be. THat's wby I suggested looking at VBox experts for help since the network devices you're attempting to use are virtual.

I've posted to VBox. They can't help. I think the problem is the newer Linux kernels. I ran for years with no problems, boom-boom, love me long time. With the new kernel, problems. Newest Mint, newest Kubuntu, same thing, so it has to be the common factor: the kernel (or perhaps the Extensions or the kernel mods in Guest Additions, but my money is on the kernel, itself -- it seems to be doing something to my gateway router, to which its bridged, not NATed).

I state the above with some experience. I am responsible maintaining, upgrading, training users, and more for more than 90 systems operating nation wide comprised of over 600 PCs in network groups. The only time I have to use Windows as a host OS is when a piece of Windows software requires direct hardware access (almost always graphics card and little else). Unfortunately the ability to expose bare hardware to a VM client is difficult to configure and has spotty results regardless of how well configured so I'm stuck with that crappy OS way too often. Hopefully, not forever.

Win10 is a fine operating system. The GUI is much more complete, but we can disagree on that, no?

Now down to Kubuntu and your experience - there are many hundred users on here that will tell you Kubuntu is by far the best KDE/Plasma 5 distro there is.

Oh, dear. I was hoping that KDE would be more like WinXP.

... Most of your first post seemed like conclusions rather than asking for help ...

It was just testimony. I'm trying to be helpful.

... so it seems like you've already decided against Kubuntu ...

Not at all.

... you might find we have a large community of helpful and knowledgeable users ready to help if you ask.

That's good to know, it's critical.

I would suggest that you break your issues into separate related problems.

When it comes to problems, I'll do just that.

,,, You might try Manjaro KDE if you're looking to really change the playing field. Mint is 90%+ Kubuntu which might explain why the networking issues appeared in both. Manjsro seemed really polished last time I tried it. Totall different beast than the *buntu products so might work better for you. Good luck either way.

Well, now we're down to wants. What I want in an operating system is a simple, extensible menu that's not just a program laucher, but a real menu that can mix applications with documents and unlimited submenus that are all file-based much like WinXP. What I want is complete system dialogs that have all features enabled and on the face of the dialog so that they're quick to submit. The Linux Mint Cinnamon dialogs, for example, are awful and really slow down usage of the OS.

Yeah I've seen the window thing but it's movable and goes full screen easily enough if you drag it to the top of the installer window.

That's not possible in a VBox VM until the Guest Additions are run in the Guest (which is not possible during the installation).

It does start really small on a 4K screen but my monitor is large enough to see it just fine.

My gaming laptop is 4K with a 17 inch screen. The installer screens were way too small, but VBox can enlarge them -- I chose 200% -- so that's not really the issue. What is the issue was the installers aspect ratio being too wide.

I hope I've clarified my testimony. Thank you for your time and your kind attention.

[oshunluvr]

Yeah I've seen the window thing but it's movable and goes full screen easily enough if you drag it to the top of the installer window. It does start really small on a 4K screen but my monitor is large enough to see it just fine.

[oshunluvr]

Never a waste of time; debate and differences of option are what forums are all about. It's how we learn.

Your post is lengthy and covered several topics so I glossed over a couple details I think. However, I absolutely was not joking about windows being a poor choice for a mission critical host. If you host Windows as a client on a Linux VM you have the ability to backup and restore and snapshot Windows with ease. Additionally, clients are easily transported from one system to another. Assuming you kept a proper backup of your Windows VM, your system could die in a fire but you could install Linux in 10 minutes on any system and import the Windows VM and be up and running in less than 20 minutes. No way is that possible the other way around. Plus the added security of the Linux host would make daily life easier. As far as networking issues, until you install the Linux host (whatever you choose) on bare metal and do some actual trouble-shooting of a network issue it's impossible to knwo what the outcome would be. THat's wby I suggested looking at VBox experts for help since the network devices you're attempting to use are virtual.

I state the above with some experience. I am responsible maintaining, upgrading, training users, and more for more than 90 systems operating nation wide comprised of over 600 PCs in network groups. The only time I have to use Windows as a host OS is when a piece of Windows software requires direct hardware access (almost always graphics card and little else). Unfortunately the ability to expose bare hardware to a VM client is difficult to configure and has spotty results regardless of how well configured so I'm stuck with that crappy OS way too often. Hopefully, not forever.

Now down to Kubuntu and your experience - there are many hundred users on here that will tell you Kubuntu is by far the best KDE/Plasma 5 distro there is. Not many Mint users here but many that have converted from Mint. If you really want to try and use Kubuntu - either in a VM or natively - you're just going to have to roll up your sleeves and get to some real troubleshooting to figure out what you've missed or need to change. Most of your first post seemed like conclusions rather than asking for help so it seems like you've already decided against Kubuntu - which is fine of course. No one here will flame you for it (and I'll censor them if they do ) but you might find we have a large community of helpful and knowledgeable users ready to help if you ask.

I would suggest that you break your issues into separate related problems. I.e. networking and screen resolution are wildly different problems and need separate threads.

If you're just looking to vent, then consider yourself vented, LOL. You might try Manjaro KDE if you're looking to really change the playing field. Mint is 90%+ Kubuntu which might explain why the networking issues appeared in both. Manjsro seemed really polished last time I tried it. Totall different beast than the *buntu products so might work better for you. Good luck either way.

[Snowhog]

As to the Kubuntu installer presenting it's screen 'oversized' and not moveable (from within a VirtualBox session for installation), I can concur that that is the case; I've experienced this myself on my VirtualBox. It is 'odd' that Kubuntu (and yes, I agree that it is Kubuntu) does this, but I guess that's because there simply weren't enough/any testers trying out Kubuntu in VirtualBox. For a complete 'newb', this would be very disconcerting.

I guess that this issue could be described as a 'bug', albeit one that is obscure (due to insufficient testing in that environment). Documenting the problem and reporting it to the Kubuntu Developers might be the way to go. I'd likely start with https://kubuntu.org/the-kubuntu-team/

[markfilipak]

Thank you, oshunluvr. Hmm... "oshunluvr", eh? Is that Hungarian? How do you pronounce it?

... the primary difference between your failed attempt and my successes is that my host is Linux and yours is Windows maybe the problem lies with your host OS and you would be better served to look to a Windows forum for help.

You're making a joke, right?

Based on your description it seems you overscaled or enlarged the screen beyond usability or there was some disconnect between the host and client.

I'm sorry. I guess I didn't make it clear. VBox defaults to 800x600 and that 4:3 aspect ratio cannot be changed until the Guest Additions are installed. The Kubuntu installer defaults to a screen aspect wider than 4:3 so the right side is cut off (pretty significantly I'd say). I don't think that's VBox's fault and no way can I see that as a Windows problem. I did not enlarge the Kubuntu screen directly. I enlarged the VM window that VBox controls to 2x. That was successful, but the right side of the Kubuntu install was still cut off because VBox does not change the aspect ratio of the Guest. I hope that's clear now. You just need to change the installer's aspect ratio to 4:3 and all will be joy.

The disconnect between where Kubuntu showed the mouse to be and where the mouse actually was came later, after I installed the GA and after I changed the display properties in Kubuntu. VBox was not involved in any of that. After a Kubuntu reboot, most windows and the menu seemed to catch up with the change in screen size so that the mouse was where it appeared to be and all was normal, except when I tried to shutdown. In the shutdown dialog, the mouse was not where it appeared to be and I had to use other methods to shut down.

As far as the failed attempt to use the Extensions install script, I've never had any trouble with that either. If you execute the correct script using sudo ...

Yes, yes, of course. [...I know that you mean Additions, not Extensions ...they are two different things...] My point is that Mint handles that elegently. When I double-click on the GA, Mint asks if I want to install it. Then it prompts for password like any admin app would and runs the script and installs the GA. I don't have to open Konsole at all.

When you add-in your networking issues to all it seems you need a wholly different solution. Personally, it seems counter intuitive to use Windows as your host OS ...

Why do you say that? I have mission critical programs that run solely in Windows. (...You must have missed that part.)

And the networking problems are new, and they're why I have to leave Mint.

My best suggestion is to find a VirtualBox forum or some experts to help you if you want to try to install Kubuntu again that way. It seems like most of your above problems are VBox related not Linux related.

VBox didn't malfunction. Why would I go to the VBox forum and tell them about my experiences installing Kubuntu?

I'm just trying to pass along my experiences. I'm just trying to be a good netcitizen and a good Kubuntun. The problems I had are not show stoppers and they are not to be 'solved' because I did install Kubuntu and therefore my experiences are in the past, probably never to be repeated by me.

The roughness of the install gives newbies a bad 1st impression of Kubuntu, that's all.

If you think this is all a waste of time, you're the admin... delete it.