Windows 8 inaccessible after installing Kubuntu 12.10

[SteveRiley]

longnosemonkey: My apologies for missing your thread until now. The last several days have been unusually busy for me, and my presence on KFN has been almost none. I'm easing back into my normal routine now.

First, please feel free to ignore whatever Toshiba tells you about Secure Boot. The Windows 8 certification requirements mandate that hardware OEMs provide a way to disable Secure Boot. Toshiba can claim they won't "support" you, but when's the last time you actually needed support from an OEM anyway? Windows will still boot fine, even the Windows that's installed by Toshiba at the factory. Disabling Secure Boot shouldn't stop the pre-installed Windows from running.

Second, I took a quick look at that bootinfoscript thing and I'm not sure I trust it. First, computers running UEFI typically don't have MBRs. In fact, Windows in UEFI mode won't work with MBR-style bootable disks at all. It requires GPT. So for the script to claim that a boot loader is installed in the MBR is suspicious. Furthermore, I just ran it on my machine. I'm running in UEFI mode, no Windows, GPT disk, and -- importantly -- no GRUB. I boot the kernel directly from UEFI. Here's what bootinfoscript says about my machine:

 => Grub2 (v1.99) is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks at sector 
    408190672 of the same hard drive for core.img, but core.img can not be 
    found at this location.

I can assure you that there is no MBR on my disk whatsoever! Furthermore, the indicated sector is not on a partition boundary but instead lies within my / partition. Therefore, I'm not sure how accurate your RESULTS1.txt really is.

I am considering a number of options for you, one of which includes getting restore discs, paving everything, starting clean with Secure Boot switched off, and doing things the "right" way. But first, a bit more, if you don't mind.

The reason you're seeing some boot loader choices is that your UEFI NVRAM boot variables are likely malformed at this point. I would like to have an accurate list of what your UEFI contains. Please boot into Kubuntu and run the following command:

sudo efibootmgr -v

Reply here with the output. Then we can continue.

[Frank616]

longnosemonkey:

But are there any technical problems with this idea? Is it just a minor annoyance only? Can I do that instead of doing one system/hard drive, one OS?

Sorry, I missed this part of your post the first time.

As to technical problems, I don't know. As I said, I'm no Linux guru. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on this. Remember that Win8 is relatively new to all of us, so learning to work with it is going to take some time. What I shared with you here is just my limited experience.

As to one drive / one OS, that is just my way of doing things. It has saved me a lot of grief, and I think it is of value. I have more machines lying around than I know what to do with, and I've learned how to keep them in sync with one another. For me this works well, and I don't dual boot. I just have a lot of machines.

And, as mentioned in my previous answer, you can always run Windows as a guest OS in a virtual machine hosted on Linux. I've done that in the past, and it works very well.

Frank.

[Frank616]

longnosemonkey:

I need Windows 8 for games and work. So I need to dual-boot.

Really?

Win7 is pretty recent. Do you really NEED Win8? Win7 can be run as a virtual machine on Linux, and if this is done on a multi-core machine with a fair bit of memory, Windows will run at near native speed (some even claim faster than native). WINE is another option if the Windows apps you need for work are supported by it.

As I suggested earlier, you can also just run Linux on another machine. Hardware is cheap these days, and even a used machine a couple of years old will give excellent performance. Files can be kept in sync between the two machines in the cloud, or over a LAN with xcopy or rsync (rsync is available for Windows too). I've been doing that for years, though my days of needing to maintain a Windows box are long gone.

Dual boot works on pre Win8 machines, but I find the annoyances beyond what I am willing to put up with.

Frank.

[Frank616]

Snowhog:

Blech. This is why, when I'm looking online for another PC, I exclude any PC with Windows 8.

I feel as you do. I haven't used Windows since Win98. Of the 7 machines that I own and maintain (home and work) I have one machine that is capable of dual boot with XP, but I've never used it.

However, just because a machine comes with WIn8 does not mean that it cannot be used as a 100% Linux machine. This Asus X202E netbook that I am using now to respond to this message came with Win8. That is how I learned that dual-booting on it is not a good idea. Like the poor fellow that we are helping here, I too bought it to TRY, and didn't want to lose the original OS in case it didn't work out, and I had to return it. However, Kubuntu 12.10 runs on it just fine (or at least as well as this rather unstable release runs on anything). I like the little machine, and I'm glad I bought it -- MS tax and all. However, I had to replace the drive to make it work well. The 245 GB Samsung SSD that I put in it really makes this little machine sing.

Frank.

[Snowhog]

That's why SO many see MS as evil. They want it their way - period. And the sad thing, so many, if not all, PC manufacturers go along with it.

[longnosemonkey]

I found an article on this:

Linux Foundation UEFI Secure Boot key for Windows 8 PCs delays explained

James Bottomley, Parallels' CTO of server virtualization, well-known Linux kernel maintainer, and the man behind the Linux Foundation's efforts to create an easy way to install and boot Linux on Windows 8 PCs with UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) Secure Boot enabled is sorry to report that "We’re still waiting for Microsoft to give the Linux Foundation a validly signed pre-bootloader."

Despite the best efforts of Fedora, openSUSE, Ubuntu, and the Linux Foundation, booting Linux on UEFI Secure Boot Windows 8 PCs continues to be a problem . The easiest way to avoid Windows 8 lock-in is to disable UEFI Secure Boot from your system before it starts to boot. However, this option may not be available on all motherboard; isn't available at all on Windows RT devices, such as the Surface; and is still troublesome even with Secure Boot disabled. So, it is that the struggle—and struggle it is—to create an easy to use, universal install and boot Secure Boot Linux installer continues on.

You don't have to take my word for it. Bottomley reports that, even after jumping through various legal hoops, you can't "just upload a UEFI binary and have it signed First of all you have to wrap the binary in a Microsoft Cabinet file. Fortunately, there is one open source project that can create cabinet files called lcab. Next you have to sign the cabinet file with your Verisign key. Again, there is one open source project that can do this: osslsigncode. For anyone else needing these tools, they’re now available in my openSUSE Build Service UEFI repository."

"The final problem is that the file upload requires silverlight. Unfortunately, moonlight [an open-source Silverlight implementation] doesn’t seem to cut it and even with the version 4 preview, the upload box shows up blank, so time to fire up windows 7 under kvm [Linux's built-in hypervisor]. When you get to this stage, you also have to certify that the binary “to be signed must not be licensed under GPLv3 or similar open source licenses” I assume the fear here is key disclosure but it’s not at all clear (or indeed what 'similar open source licences' actually are)."

Legally that's troublesome, but at least the technical problems seemed in hand. Alas, the trouble was only beginning.

First, creating the cabinet file failed. Eventually Bottomley generated a working UEFI Secure Boot Linux pre-loader but the signing process still indicated that there had been a failure. When he asked Microsoft what was going on, the company replied, "Don’t use that file that is incorrectly signed. I will get back to you." Bottomley speculates that the problem is that the working Secure Boot binary key "is signed with a generic Microsoft key instead of a specific (and revocable) key tied to the Linux Foundation."

So it is that the Linux Foundation is still waiting "for Microsoft to give the Linux Foundation a validly signed pre-bootloader." Until that happens, booting and installing Linux on Windows 8 PCs will remain an order of magnitude harder than it is on earlier model PCs.

But I don't understand this. Why isn't Stallman single-handedly trying to storm Redmond? Why are there no anti-trust lawsuits against Microsoft? They're trying to lock hardware into their OS!

I need Windows 8 for games and work. So I need to dual-boot. I don't mind switching Secure Boot On and Off to access either OS for now. But are there any technical problems with this idea? Is it just a minor annoyance only? Can I do that instead of doing one system/hard drive, one OS?

[Snowhog]

Blech. This is why, when I'm looking online for another PC, I exclude any PC with Windows 8. But, given that I won't use Windows anything -- it would get removed post-haste -- it isn't really an issue for me. I'll never be dual-booting Linux and Windows ever again.

[Frank616]

I tried re-enabling Secure Boot in BIOS and it worked! I booted straight into Windows 8!

I suspected as much.

I am developing a working theory on this Linux / Win8 thing. Win8 is a signed binary, so loads with secure boot, as it was designed to be. Linux loads with secure boot off, as the binary is unsigned. Therefore, we get legacy boot from UEFI. The twain do not meet. You currently get one, or the other.

Recommendation: Don't try to dual boot a Win8 machine. I suspect that it currently just can't be done.

It is interesting to note that all the successful installs of Linux on Win8 hardware that I came across on the 'net were all accomplished by replacing the hard drive. So we go back to my general rule:

One machine -- One OS.

Frank.

[longnosemonkey]

According to EasyBCD 2.2:

There are a total of 5 entries listed in the bootloader.

Default: Windows 8
Timeout: 10 seconds
EasyBCD Boot Device: C:\

Entry #1
Name: Ubuntu
BCD ID: {22666b16-4fa4-11e2-be7d-806e6f6e6963}
Device: \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Bootloader Path: \EFI\ubuntu\grubx64.efi

Entry #2
Name: EFI USB Device
BCD ID: {775059ab-499a-11e2-9ba5-dd08203f7f74}
Device: Unknown
Bootloader Path: 

Entry #3
Name: EFI Network
BCD ID: {775059ad-499a-11e2-9ba5-dd08203f7f74}
Device: Unknown
Bootloader Path: 

Entry #4
Name: EFI DVD/CDROM
BCD ID: {775059ac-499a-11e2-9ba5-dd08203f7f74}
Device: Unknown
Bootloader Path: 

Entry #5
Name: Windows 8
BCD ID: {current}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \windows\system32\winload.efi

Does that help?

[longnosemonkey]

NickStone: I've already done most of the things in your list. That's how I installed Kubuntu.

sealbhach: So if Secure Boot is the cause of my problems, what do I do? Will it be possible for GRUB to issue an update that will fix this or does SecureBoot make it impossible to fix this problem?

Aside from turning off SecureBoot every time I need to boot Kubuntu, is there anything else I can do now?

[sealbhach]

Okay, well this all confirms where we are at, Secure Boot is preventing Grub from creating a menu entry for Windows. Gotta love those artificial barriers...

.

[longnosemonkey]

I just used EasyBCD 2.2 inside Windows 8 to set the boot options and timer. Upon boot up, I now do have BIOS giving me a choice of booting up Windows 8 or "Ubuntu", but trying to choose "Ubuntu" gives me this message:

"Windows failed to start. A recent hardware or software change might be the cause. To fix the problem" and gives me repair options.


WTF? Perhaps EasyBCD sees Kubuntu as a Windows partition? Any help? Why can I boot only one OS at a time?


P.S. Nick Stone: Let me read that link.

have you tried to follow the instructions found in the following thread?
http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthr...FI-secure-boot

[longnosemonkey]

To sealbhack:

I followed the instructions you gave me and then re-booted but it went straight to the GRUB boot options screen with the same 3 options as before. Windows 8 was not one of them.

To Frank616:

Try enabling secure boot again in the UEFI setup utility, then try booting again. I'm thinking that Windows will probably show, and Kubuntu won't.

I tried re-enabling Secure Boot in BIOS and it worked! I booted straight into Windows 8!

I got back into Windows! Yay!

[longnosemonkey]

sudo mount /dev/sda7 /mnt

After I enter my password, the terminal automatically put in "sudo apt-get install gawk." I proceed on vein and the terminal says that gawk is already the newest version. No changes made.

sudo mount --bind /dev /mnt/dev
sudo mount --bind /dev/pts /mnt/dev/pts
sudo mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc
sudo mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys

sudo chroot /mnt

No response from the terminal.

grub-install /dev/sda

Installation finished. No error reported.

grub-install --recheck /dev/sda

Installation finished. No error reported.

update-grub

Generating grub.cfg
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.5.0-17-generic
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-17-generic
Adding boot menu entry for EFI firmware configuration
done

exit

exit

sudo umount /mnt/dev

umount: /mnt/dev: device is busy.

sudo umount /mnt/dev/pts
sudo umount /mnt/proc
sudo umount /mnt/sys
sudo umount /mnt

No response from konsole

I tried again to unmount /mnt/dev (whatever the heck that is) but got the same "device is busy message."

Now I'm rebooting.


Note: I just made a Ubuntu 12.10 Live USB and stuck it in the USB port of the laptop. I have no idea if any of what I did mounted this image and copied GRUB over from it or not. I can't parse these messages.