What is KDE Neon?

[oshunluvr]

Here's an example:
Executable file stored as ~/.local/scripts/setmon :

#!/bin/bash
xrandr --output DisplayPort-3 --primary --pos 0x0
xrandr --output HDMI-A-0 --rotate right --right-of DisplayPort-3 --pos 3840x0

Then using System Settings, add the script to run at login. This creates a Desktop file stored at ~/.config/autostart/setmon.desktop :

[Desktop Entry]
Exec=/home/stuart/.local/scripts/setmon
Icon=dialog-scripts
Name=setmon
Path=
Type=Application
X-KDE-AutostartScript=true

Basically, you just have to know what xrandr commands are needed to configure it the way you want. For my laptop, I wrote a more a complicated version that detects a a specific external monitor and sets it up properly.

[oshunluvr]

My solution ended up being to disable kcreen2 and write a custom monitor config file and run it at boot time. The issue I had was kscreen would default to a refresh rate that my monitor didn't support.

[ShadYoung]

You kind of need to go outside of the distro-specific places for ideas, I think, especially for triple-monitor configuration.

Yes, well, in between the conversations here, I have been doing exactly that, and I have, over a 4 day period identified the culprits causing the issues, tracked them down one by one, and have killed them all. And now, except for the stupid launcher decision by Kubuntu that is not an issue in Neon, I have a perfect multi-monitor setup with stable widgets on a rotated wing. I now know how to add the final forth rotated wing monitor, however, I may need a new primary video card as this one is reaching its resolution limits with three.

I also solved the odd scaling, weird aspect ratio login problems others are having (detailed fix to be posted soon).

I also solved the "video wont resume from sleep" problem (I think, overnight testing required).

And I also think I solved the weird wallpaper always resetting itself on the secondary monitor problem many people have complained of. We shall have to see about that one as its a bit random.

So... yeah.. I think I am doing the work, I think I am looking outside the box. I look everywhere, including here.

And the fix is re-configuring SDDM. As I suspected. But it took a while to learn.

[claydoh]

The "Kubuntu way" wont let me. Everything is dynamically configured,

That is not "Kubuntu-specific" in any way. Most all distros are doing this at the kernel levels, or at some lower levels like udev, systemd etc. Plasma distros are using Kscreen, but one can disable or uninstall this and set things up manually (probably not graphically tho)
Multiple monitors support is a known sore point on Plasma across all distros. I have no idea how well things work in other desktop environments.


The 'work' IS in part going outside the very tiny corner of the Linux universe that is the completely independent Kubuntuforums community, and tapping into the broader knowledge base of the general Ubuntu, KDE, and Linux community.
I think we tend to forget to point this out more often. As well as the fact that Kubuntu=Ubuntu in most areas.

You get crickets here because the couple dozen active folks simply don't have the same collective experience or interests that other larger groups might have, unfortunately.

Performance tuning has zero to do with any desktop environment, and involves moving targets that often are actual hindrances to such things. it seems to me that progress on this type of GUI tool is only recently been usable in general, though it might be that I stopped paying as much attention to it perhaps.
The corectrl application is only a few years old iirc.
I am hoping that the potential influx of new performance-oriented Linux users from the Steam Deck might also bring in some developers or development ideas and interest on the desktop side. Assuming desktops are still a thing anymore
(I do suspect most coders are using laptops, which are more common today)

Nvidia closed source drivers for example have been a LONG and painful inconsistent pita that have great feature sets, but can't have things fixed unless nvidia do it themselves. if they bother to. So 80% of the gpu users have potentially Sh***y support but still have tons of tweakable options if one wants to dive in to custom xorg,conf files and the like.



You kind of need to go outside of the distro-specific places for ideas, I think, especially for triple-monitor configuration.

if you visit reddit, /r/linuxquestions is a good general knowledge sub to ask questions. Searching the site also can bring up useful info, as the Linux parts are less annoying than the more general subs. otherwise, Reddit can be a cesspool.
askubuntu and various stackexchanges can be hit or miss, leaning toward the miss side, just from the sheer number of similar questions and topics and potential staleness.

[ShadYoung]

Why do you need fan control / memory control / voltage control on the KDE desktop? Why not let the computer BIOS deal with this automatically? There is lots to be said for keeping things "simple", and let the computer bios automatically adjust the fan speeds as temperatures rise, rather than use additional applications.

When used in a capital oriented capacity, a workstation's performance is a time related cost consideration. This machine is very often working at 100% on all processors (CPU and GPUs simultaneously). When rendering a 3D animation or an effects heavy video, time is money. Pushing a machine to the edge of stability can result in upwards of 15% reduced time to render, with the reduced render time being more valuable than the operating cost increase (work per cycle per kwh). But leaving it in a "to the limits state" increases power usage and heat, which are unnecessary added costs under normal usage conditions. It also shortens parts lifespan.

So being able to quickly switch back and forth between profiles is useful in balancing performance with cost and durability.

it is also much faster to test tuning on the desktop in real time than to have to go back and forth, and back and forth, and back and forth, to the bois. This too has to be calculate into your cost analysis. Time is money. This isn't a toy. Its a tool.

[claydoh]

Its like the dev team never tested it beyond a single display, and obviously never rotated a display or this bizarre behavior would have been fixed long ago, as it would drive them as crazy as it driving me. Neon fixes half of it, at least.

Haha, distro testing? In all actuality, Kubuntu has far more testing than neon, though very few users ever take part. Most is basic installation and core usage. Most of the testing is done on the KDE side. neon and Kubuntu basically just package and ship the software. I think you are sort of thinking the open source model of development follows the commercial software development , testing , and release process.

it is much more likely that the devs don't have all the different hardware combos possible, and in their own testing on their own hardware setups, rotation works as expected. There is a heavy reliance on user bug reporting (not via forum post or reddit griping) which unfortunately is not an easy thing for most people to do, even for simple basic things

So we end back to where we started, sometimes:
neon will have a newer kscreen or whatever part is helping you, but in a few months, they will change your application launcher


I imagine for this sort of screen issue you might need to ditch kscreen altogether and go 'old school' with a custom xorg.conf file or xrandr scripting, which would iirc set all the resolutions and orientations before login. I think oshunluvr has experience with this and multi-multi-monitor setups.

[ShadYoung]

Shad wants to be able to do the things, but without the 'extra work' so to speak.
Not at all unreasonable. Learning new things is not always ideal or desired.

Not at all true. I prefer to do the extra work. The problem is I can't. The "Kubuntu way" wont let me. Everything is dynamically configured, and its doing it wrong, and there is little I can do about it. I also do not like doing extra work when the extra work is unnecessary or arbitrary, as in the decision not to understand that 80% of the GPUs in use are Nvidia..

I have been asking for months about tools for performance tuning in Linux. Crickets is the usual response. So its a tad disingenuous to make it sound like I am looking for easy solutions. No I do not redit, but I am thinking I should, as there seems to be more up-to-date solutions there than anywhere else.

[ShadYoung]

The main difference is neon having a more up to date Plasma and Qt libraries, the underlying Ubuntu OS is 100 % identical to Kubuntu. The newer Kscreen is probably helping you here. Kubuntu isn't changing anything, really.

You sold me. As it stands, whatever the underlying difference is, Kubuntu is useless for my needs. Its like the dev team never tested it beyond a single display, and obviously never rotated a display or this bizarre behavior would have been fixed long ago, as it would drive them as crazy as it driving me. Neon fixes half of it, at least.

I am going to dig more into KDisplay/SDDM. It seems to me the problems I am having with Kpanels and widgets could be solved if the display was rotated before it gets to the logon screen. It should not be rotating the screen after login (as it stands, I have to tilt my head sideways to type my password, as SDDM's focus is on the wrong, non-primary, rotated but not rotated monitor). Meanwhile, the monitor on the right side of primary does not even turn on until after login (kinda like "why is my wifi not on until after I log in?").

If I had any ability as a programmer I would be diving into this, it is that important. Sadly I do not. I am a multimedia artist/technician (ptgr/grip/RE).

[claydoh]

Why do you need fan control / memory control / voltage control on the KDE desktop? Why not let the computer BIOS deal with this automatically? There is lots to be said for keeping things "simple", and let the computer bios automatically adjust the fan speeds as temperatures rise, rather than use additional applications.

You don't game, I take it
or just like to tweak and overclock things like you can on Windows, using the GPU utils that come with the drivers, from the GPU manufacturer, or similar utils from the motherboard maker.
yes, most of the CPU and RAM control can be done from the BIOS, but not so much on-the-fly fan control ootb.


I have corectrl for gpu tweaking if I want it, though it has far fewer dials to twirl on my new rx6600 than it did on my ancient rx480 (exactly like the screenshot in the link)


Shad wants to be able to do the things, but without the 'extra work' so to speak.
Not at all unreasonable. Learning new things is not always ideal or desired.

The problem with Linux is that some things will *always* require some extra work, as it will always be at least somewhat DIY by nature.
There are few GUI utilities for hardware control partly because of the changing and closed natures of the hardware itself, as well as the overall lack of interest from hobbyist-parttime-volunteer programmers to actually develop such things for Linux.

[brianinnes]

Using it daily for what? OCL or cuda intensive apps using multiple GPUs? Low latency audio applications via external interfaces? Camera tethering or wifi remote control?

Maybe you do use your actual computer as a computer, and not simply as a toy, but the vast, and I mean vast majority (ok, many ) of Linux users in general do not appear to be using their computers very hard at all. It seems to me that a lot of people spend their time distro hopping and checking out the latest and greatest (cuz linux makes em look cool). I just need it to work. Properly. Reliably. Every day.

KDE's direction in general seems a bit odd. I want better configuration tools, not a different Kmenu. I need fan control. I need memory control, I need voltage control. I need access to the hardware from my desktop in a far more robust fashion. After 20+ years we still do not have those basic tools. We have nice eye candy though.

Why do you need fan control / memory control / voltage control on the KDE desktop? Why not let the computer BIOS deal with this automatically? There is lots to be said for keeping things "simple", and let the computer bios automatically adjust the fan speeds as temperatures rise, rather than use additional applications.

[claydoh]

t seems Kubuntu has made changes to KDE i

The main difference is neon having a more up to date Plasma and Qt libraries, the underlying Ubuntu OS is 100 % identical to Kubuntu. The newer Kscreen is probably helping you here. Kubuntu isn't changing anything, really.

However it is also not as complete a system as Kubuntu, with key packages like the driver manager missing from the repositories

yes, neon is not 'complete' as you might define it. However, Lubuntu/Kubuntu's driver manager/software sources tool IS available to be installed from the standard ubuntu repos in neon. software-properties-qt. This software is NOT KDE or Plasma software, but is Ubuntu's. neon does not include it.
Nvidia drivers do not require extra sources at all. Some manual-ish work, perhaps, but not tons. ubuntu-drivers install I think is about it.
Enabling 32-bit support for Steam.

rapid updates tend to break things regularly, and I need my machine to be not broken, I am hesitant to give up Kubuntu

"Rapid" may be a bit strong, neon gets the official Plasma et al as they are released. The staggered release of the different components does entail a regular flow. This of course is by design, and may not suit everyone. But 'tending break things regularly' might be an overstatement. You must be hanging out on Reddit a lot A lot of knee-jerk reaction/hate as well as fanboi-ism as well. Gotta love it.

The main differences between Kubuntu and neon really are the updates/upgrade pacing

Kubuntu (non-LTS) requires updating the entire OS every 6 months vs Neon updating Plasma few weeks or so (which are mostly the bugfix "point" releases as well as regular Frameworks and Gear updates) without needing to upgrade the whole OS until the next LTS . "Major" Plasma upgrade occur every 4-6 months approx. So either way, big changes happen in both systems, it is just a matter of when.

Kubuntu offers the LTS option to keep both the OS and Plasma version (with minor point releases) the same for two years..

[ShadYoung]

Did you run the CD as a LiveCD or did you install it and then run it?

I gave it another run through and it worked this time. Using it has revealed some key difference that make Neon both compelling and worrisome at the same time. It seems Kubuntu has made changes to KDE in a way that severely limits its usefulness in a multi-monitor environment. Neon does not suffer the same problems. However it is also not as complete a system as Kubuntu, with key packages like the driver manager missing from the repositories, forcing a manual install and 3rd party repository for my display driver. It is going to be a lot more work to get a fully function media creation workstation set up, and given that the most common complaint I hear about Neon is the rapid updates tend to break things regularly, and I need my machine to be not broken, I am hesitant to give up Kubuntu.

I am a bit shocked on multiple levels that this many problems still exist in a multi-monitor environment in KDE. It is neither new, nor uncommon. But is seems things like a simple rotation confuses everything.

[Snowhog]

I am a lighthearted person and I tend to tease.

That's good to know, and thank you for telling us.

I try not to take life too seriously. Its way too short, and this stuff too unimportant.

A good outlook on Life. I'm reminded of the book: "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and It's All Small Stuff"

[ShadYoung]

Oh, you booted a CD. Did it calculate a checksum at the beginning of the boot up? The problems you mention are indicative of a bad CD burn or a bad ISO. Did you run the CD as a LiveCD or did you install it and then run it?

Can you download the ISO, check it, and burn it to a CD or USB stick yourself?

It is likely hardware related. I have a non-standard config going (three monitors - one in portrait - and 2 dedicated NV GPUs). My machine is in a difficult state for Linux at the moment, and I had no expectation Neon would work in this configuration. There is nothing wrong with the ISO. I am not using a CD/DVD. Neon did not give me an option to install, I had to run the live version first.

Anyway, you guys are taking this far more seriously than I intended. I am a lighthearted person and I tend to tease. I try not to take life too seriously. Its way too short, and this stuff too unimportant.

[blue_bullet]

I believe you. However, when I tried the shiny new Neon yesterday, it booted with zero art - no icons, no dressing,... just text on an empty desktop background. It seems the vaunted new plasma 26 is a tad borked. I booted up the live version of 22.04... its fine. Booted up the windows install... its fine... seems to me the tool did indeed arrive broken in the box. Probably thanks to UPS not being gentle during shipping.

Per Claydoh:

Usually.
Being the internet, even explaining things means little, sometimes.
Or often.

Some people like to squeal.
I wear earplugs.

My updates on 4 machines went smoothly. Kudos to the devs.