Friendly evaluate Kubuntu 25.10 Questing Quokka

[NoWorries]

It is now only 2 months before Kubuntu Questing Quokka 25.10 is released. During this time I have had many updates - none of which have broken my system. Kubuntu 25.10 will switch to Wayland as the default display server for new installations, mirroring a similar move by the main Ubuntu release. I have only been using the Wayland desktop for months now, and my problems with Kazam recording still has not been fixed on Wayland so I have to switch to X11 for Kazam video recording. So I synaphize with those who want to retain X11.

The progress up to this stage is shown by the System Information Centre version numbers below.

	4 Months Ago	2 Mnths To Go
KDE Plasma Version	6.3.5	6.3.5
KDE Frameworks Version	6.12	6.16.0
QT Version	6.8.3	6.8.3
Application Version	4:24.12.1	4:25.07
Kernel Version	6.14.0-10-generic	6.15.0-4-generic

I am very impressed with the progress so far and I just hope the developers can successfully remove the remaining X11 dependence by the release of Questing Quokka.

[jlittle]

...It is highly improbable that we can support the X11 session in 26.04 LTS,,,,

That's bad news.

I still use stuff daily that can be done with X11 that Wayland decided (as a design goal) I should not be able to do. One day plasma, or rather its compositor, will support these things (I hope) but it's taking a while.

On my 10 year old desktop Wayland has an alpha quality feel about it; graphical glitches and missing functionality.

[rec9140]

Um, bye felicia?

I am going to take the high road on this one...

Or is installing a single package all that hard?

NO.. that is not the issue... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHH!

We've been down this path before... Simple remove pulseturdio... ALSA takes back over.. See where that got me/us... Now we are stuck with it, and systemd.

This work around appears to be short life'd as per the statement direct from KDE developer.

Yeah I could/can add the X11 session back.. I still think this is wrong to remove it or not include it, even if you don't make it the default.. I can live with that. You made a wrong decision here, I can simply fix it by choice. I SHOULD HAVE THE CHOICE from the start to fix this.. Not have to CHOOSE TO FIX it first.

Wonder what happens when I go sudo apt-get remove kde-session-wayland I betcha 100000:1 it breaks the system! It will be interesting to see what happens in my test VM when I do this.. carnage all over the place... wayvirus has infected the system already just like systemd did.. (Don't give me any lecture about devuan.. that aint a viable option and you know it. )

These headlines are severe clickbait overreactions. x11 should still be in 26.04, at least right now, and I suspect it will be beyond that.
It just won't be installed by default \Excpet for those respins that may still need it (xfce, mate, and others)

NO, they are not "clickbait." You are dismissing legitimate users use case just like the developers of wayturkey did and are. Just cause you think the desktop should not be remote displayed, doesn't mean others don't need it and rely on it. I do, and I will not give up that use case. NO VNC, et al are NOT VIABLE use cases when Remote X11 is faster and can be secured via SSH tunnel. I am doing it right now.

Ummm I think you missed this... and the DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS your statement.

"Kubuntu’s Rik Mills further explains: “It is highly improbable that we can support the X11 session in 26.04 LTS, so Like Ubuntu desktop it is probably better to rip off this sticking plaster in 25.10 and concentrate on Wayland” (sic)."

Thats a stake right through the heart. And your statement. X11 is not going to be around in 26.04, nor will KDE support it. That statement comes direct from the horses mouth.

You have the choice. But you may have to do the work yourself (install a package), or build your own, or migrate to where other like-minded folks have gone?

NO. Why do I HAVE to do the WORK YET AGAIN! No! How about all you do the work for a change. You want to change 40 years worth of operation for new hotness.. then do so over there, out of my way, and LEAVE MY STUFF ALONE.

As long as Debian builds x11, it very likley will be found in Ubuntu. Even if at some point Ubuntu stop actually building it themselves, it will be in Universe, along with all the community-supported packages and ones imported from Debian directly.

I would not put much stock in that at all.


Your whole viewpoint meshes up well with the wayturkery developers and cheerleaders. "Don't like this. get lost!" Well No.. How about you all get lost and go play over there with your new hotness. And leave things over here alone.

I personally hope the X11 fork gains traction.. I am not interested in your dislike on the developer and their viewpoint. I don't share the viewpoints of most tech people on most of the current topics of the day... see the Power Management thread..
This guy is doing WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE FROM THE START. FIX X11 to X12.. Like the movie "Fix the problem." You don't kill the patient to cure the disease unless your Dr. Wayland.

We ain't going to agree on this one, or much of anything actually.

[tenplus1]

It's good that the X11 session is still available if needed though, and I can see wayland getting much more better that x11 wont be needed. I am however more eager for Plasma 6.4.1 to hit the 25.10 repos

[claydoh]

Um, bye felicia?
Or is installing a single package all that hard?
These headlines are severe clickbait overreactions. x11 should still be in 26.04, at least right now, and I suspect it will be beyond that.
It just won't be installed by default \Excpet for those respins that may still need it (xfce, mate, and others)

Wheres the choice here people?!

You have the choice. But you may have to do the work yourself (install a package), or build your own, or migrate to where other like-minded folks have gone?
As long as Debian builds x11, it very likley will be found in Ubuntu. Even if at some point Ubuntu stop actually building it themselves, it will be in Universe, along with all the community-supported packages and ones imported from Debian directly.


I suspect you will still be able to use x11 in a non-Gnome ubuntu for some time to come. (Plasma will support it until whenever Plasma 7 comes along)
After that , Arch ( via some crusty AUR mess down the road, I imagine) and Debian should fit the bill.

[tenplus1]

I'm starting to think that maybe the X11 session should be included or at least an option during install provided at least until the new LTS to give users some leeway until full wayland.

[rec9140]

FYI, the X11 plasma session is no longer installed by default in Questing 25.10. If you wish to have an X11 session available in SDDM then make sure the package plasma-session-x11 is installed.

Well looks like we've reached the fork in the road.. and the decision on which fork is being made for me...yet again, another major decision about my OS made for me... sighhhh.

Based on this:
"Kubuntu’s Rik Mills further explains: “It is highly improbable that we can support the X11 session in 26.04 LTS, so Like Ubuntu desktop it is probably better to rip off this sticking plaster in 25.10 and concentrate on Wayland” (sic)."

Looks like I will be forced to update to 25.10, a non ESR, and once again, fix stupidity that I should not have to fix.. see systemd, pulsed, snapd, sddm, etc.. and now x11. sighhhhhhhh. More crap shoved down my throat that I don't want. Wheres the choice here people?!?!?! Not seeing choice here! Yeah I am hot under the collar.

Another task added to MY LIST with out need or consent.

Well looks like 25.10 will be it for me! Thanks for all the fish!

PS: You can save yourself the time and aggravation on extolling the virtues of waycrap over X11, I ain't interested in the least. This is a hard red line for me. I am done.

I return you to regular programming now... bzttataahtha...~~~###NO CARRIER

[claydoh]

I just hope the solution to kazam recording on the wayland desktop is simple.

use x11 until the kazam supports wayland, which will need to happen at some point, but not in the current code, let alone the truly ancient release ubuntu pulls from Debian

https://github.com/henrywoo/kazam/issues/64
https://github.com/henrywoo/kazam/issues/51
https://github.com/henrywoo/kazam/issues/14 but this is almost a year old.

these smaller projects may take longer to catch up, plus Kazam, being a package found in the unsupported/community-supported Universe pocket of the Ubuntu archive, also means it is Debian-old, aka 1.4.5, which is from 2014

[NoWorries]

FYI, the X11 plasma session is no longer installed by default in Questing 25.10. If you wish to have an X11 session available in SDDM then make sure the package plasma-session-x11 is installed.

With plasma-session-x11 installed on wayland, kdenlive worked perfectly however kazam recording gave a black screen with sound. On my X11 desktop, kazam gave video and sound in the saved recording.

I just hope the solution to kazam recording on the wayland desktop is simple.

[claydoh]

I can't reproduce it, fusermount isn't running at login here.

On my main KDE neon system, it IS at login, and post-login, as I have one flatpak app (ktailctl) loading at login, and it is what provides the KDE file picker in Gnome/GTK apps (or vice-versa) , mostly in snap and flatpak apps, but also in 'normal' apps as well.


fwiw, the x11 is not removed when updating, only if you do cleanup via autoremove and allow it. Unless discover does this? (I don't think so -- I use it for regular updates daily) None of the small updates I saw today seem related to xdg or fuse, but the layers can go deep.

[claydoh]

Might be worth rolling back to a previous state (if possible) and see the full list of changes.

If you are not using any snaps (firefox, for example) then it probably isn't from that.

I am not seeing it here, but I haven't actually looked for it. And I have not updated that laptop since Friday or thereabouts anyway.

[tenplus1]

claydoh - The system update removed the x11 login session itself, and everything worked fine on wayland session beforehand, was just curious why fusermount3 decided to hog one of the cpu cores for some time after login. I will try disabling snap and flatpak to see if that makes a difference.

[claydoh]

Since removing x11 login session, on boot into desktop I've been getting 100% cpu usage from fusermount3 for 20-30 seconds then it stops. Any ideas what's changed ?

1. So you yourself removed the existing x11 login session? (its removal from the ISO as a defualt package should not affect current installs, nor remove the relevant package)
2. Does this happen when you switch back to an x11 session? It is not likley related to the display protocol, but you never know.
3. being fusermount, it may be related to things you have mounting or starting up at login (restoring something from the previous desktop session)? A Flatpak/snap, or some extra service (rclone or docker or something similar, perhaps. Rclone sparks a memory, but that would be quite a while ago.)
4. The usual pre-beta caveats and disclaimers

[tenplus1]

Since removing x11 login session, on boot into desktop I've been getting 100% cpu usage from fusermount3 for 20-30 seconds then it stops. Any ideas what's changed ?

[acheron]

FYI, the X11 plasma session is no longer installed by default in Questing 25.10. If you wish to have an X11 session available in SDDM then make sure the package plasma-session-x11 is installed.