GreyGeek, I was hearing about the VLF/ULF submarine comms when I taught physics in the '90's. But it is still electromagnetic, which gives the PTB an interest...
I do like the IR lasers though, low power, available now and relatively easy to modulate. Combine this with the proven technology of local internet configurations and it becomes a viable alternative to the ICANN/IAEA system.
Of course it more than likely that an attempt will be made to legislate this into control, but I'm not sure the manpower is available to monitor L-O-S laser links. For that matter, it may already be in use in some places...
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Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View PostGreyGeek, intriguing idea, the "earth conductor" was sending audio frequency signals.
I wonder how well that would work at somewhat higher frequency, say in the 50-100KHz range?
Above audio frequency and somewhat faster data transmission.
I know VLF radio can be received via a grounded feed line, not sure if it runs into any legal restrictions...
About 5 miles northwest of Silver Creek, NE, is where an old submarine radio transmitter was located. It transmitted in the 120Khz frequency at 110 KW, IIRC. The antenna was 1,200 ft tall but part of it was in the ground. I lived about 15 miles away from it for about 10 years. When I drove down Hwy 30, about 5 miles directly south of it, for a couple miles, I could turn on my radio and move the dial below 550KHz and pick up a heterodyne of the signal. It was a buzzing sound. I read somewhere that they were sending a form of Morse code, compressed into repeating 5X5 blocks of equal length data, i.e., encrypted. They gave tours of the facility when it was in operation and discussed the transmission of radio signals through air and the earth, although many people don't believe the earth can pass radio signals, since it is often used as a "ground" for electronic devices. Radio waves in the extremely low frequency (ELF) band of 30 to 300 Hz can penetrate to a depth of hundreds of meters, allowing them to communicate with submarines at their normal operating depth, but require considerably more power than AM or higher transmitters. To block a radio signal an object has to be about 10X larger than the signal's wavelength. The ELF wavelength is between 10Km and 100 KM. Because of that ELF waves can also penetrate significant distances into earth or rock, and "through-the-earth" underground mine communication systems use frequencies of 300 to 3000 Hz. The frequency of alternating current flowing in electric power grids, 50 or 60 Hz, also falls within the ELF band, making power grids an unintentional source of ELF radiation.
Project Sanguine used a ground dipole effect:
A ground dipole consists of two ground electrodes buried in the earth, separated by tens to hundreds of kilometers, linked by overhead transmission lines to a power plant transmitter located between them. Alternating current electricity flows in a giant loop between the electrodes through the ground, radiating ELF waves, so the ground is part of the antenna.
As far as an uncensored Internet was concerned, line of sight CO2 laser modems in bridge mode connecting house to house, building to building, mountain top to mountain top, with several (many, all?) having multiple transceivers connecting to several other multi-transceivers, creating the classic DARPA network. One watt should be powerful enough to go 10 miles with little attenuation. (I'm looking at a Class 3B, 5 mW green laser that can easily been seen from that distance!) CO2 lasers shoot infrared beams through just about any kind of weather or atmospheric pollution. Maybe even a meager 100 mW would be enough. It's not visible to the naked eye, and a man-in-the-middle would have to be precisely that, exactly in between a transmitter and a receiver, which wouldn't be hard to do, but a time-of-flight reound-trip check would reveal the additional path length to either end of the node, alerting operators to the presence of an intruder.
The beam could even be bounced off of front surfaced mirrors and reflected to even greater distances, limited only by the sensitivity of the receiving portion of the transceiver, so mountain top reflectors would need power, just occasional cleaning, if that.Last edited by GreyGeek; Oct 04, 2016, 06:29 AM.
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I am again reminded of the "boiling frog" scenario...
Slowly, Slowly the heat is rising...
Look it up if you don't understand this.
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GreyGeek, intriguing idea, the "earth conductor" was sending audio frequency signals.
I wonder how well that would work at somewhat higher frequency, say in the 50-100KHz range?
Above audio frequency and somewhat faster data transmission.
I know VLF radio can be received via a grounded feed line, not sure if it runs into any legal restrictions...
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I mentioned before that the main problem with bypassing censorship on the Internet with Tor, or Blockstack or ZeroNet, supposedly P2P networks, is that they need to existing Internet infrastructure. When we can bypass the cell tower and ISPs hardware and connect with each other the way the Internet was initially intended to be (hundreds of independent ISPs) or an entirely new way, like using radio waves, etc., then we can bypass the Internet.
I wrote the above because an old memory came to me. While I was in college in the 1960s the Marxists at Berkeley were engaging in their "free speech" protests, which eventually led to the take over the campuses which, since then, has spread to most of the big universities in America. The Marxists were using lower power but unregistered transistorized FM transmitters but they needed some way to recipients to respond back to messages. Radio is one way communication. And, FCC tracking vans were able to quickly home in on transmitters and shut them down.
Then, suddenly, the Marxists went quiet. Police no longer heard their FM transmissions but the protests continued to be "spontaneous", well organized and effective. They literally went "underground". They hooked the output of audio amplifiers in the 200 watt range, which normally are attached to speakers, to rods in the earth! At other locations up to five miles away those wanting to hear the transmission merely attached leads from a similar set of ground rods to the input of audio amplifiers. Truly an underground radio. Freedom of speech needs something like that, whether it is related to computers or not.Last edited by GreyGeek; Aug 26, 2017, 11:45 AM.
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http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angel...ant-posts.html
"
German Chancellor Angela Merkel was overheard confronting Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg over incendiary posts on the social network, Bloomberg reported on Sunday, amid complaints from her government about anti-immigrant posts in the midst of Europe's refugee crisis.
On the sidelines of a United Nations luncheon on Saturday, Merkel was caught on a hot mic pressing Zuckerberg about social media posts about the wave of Syrian refugees entering Germany, the publication reported.
The Facebook CEO was overheard responding that "we need to do some work" on curtailing anti-immigrant posts about the refugee crisis. "Are you working on this?" Merkel asked in English, to which Zuckerberg replied in the affirmative before the transmission was disrupted. "Last edited by GreyGeek; Oct 03, 2016, 06:11 PM.
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Originally posted by wizard10000 View PostNo, but I'm still open to learning of a reasonably plausible scenario where that happens.
I'm afraid that it will spread.
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Snowhog pointed out what makes this forum so unique when compared to many others on the web, which are rapidly reduced to insults and vituperations that remove everyone's ability to have honest and frank discussions. That said, the main topic of this thread was about the future of the Internet, and I'm afraid I took the conversation too far off topic.At least I'm done contributing my thoughts on the future of the Internet. I will be reading others thoughts that topic, however.
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Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View Post...Do we want to someday wake up and find that our business(es) or our religion(s) have been blackballed and can no longer access the 'net?
Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View PostTO ALL: Please accept my thanks for making this thread worth reading. We may agree to disagree, but we still have the ability to DO SO PUBLICLY... for now...
Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View Post
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Originally posted by Snowhog View Post...
This thread is an example of the almost unheard of openess that we permit, but not so in nearly all other Linux Support Forums on the 'Net. It is what makes KFN unique and valuable to our members.
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Originally posted by Snowhog View PostI applaud those who are participating in this conversation. The topic (and those tangent to it) can/is one that can be(come) highly charged with emotion, but civility has prevailed. Good job.
This thread is an example of the almost unheard of openness that we permit, but not so in nearly all other Linux Support Forums on the 'Net. It is what makes KFN unique and valuable to our members.
+1
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I applaud those who are participating in this conversation. The topic (and those tangent to it) can/is one that can be(come) highly charged with emotion, but civility has prevailed. Good job.
This thread is an example of the almost unheard of openess that we permit, but not so in nearly all other Linux Support Forums on the 'Net. It is what makes KFN unique and valuable to our members.
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Originally posted by whatthefunk View PostOr maybe they did it to actually avoid UN control of the internet?
Originally posted by wizard10000;... Do we really think nobody can run teh intrawebz but us?
Technical competence is not in question here, even the "bad guys" can do that.
Do we want to someday wake up and find that our business(es) or our religion(s) have been blackballed and can no longer access the 'net?
TO ALL: Please accept my thanks for making this thread worth reading. We may agree to disagree, but we still have the ability to DO SO PUBLICLY... for now...
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There were several bakeries in the area which would have gladly taken their business, and they knew it. The baker was targeted because he was a Christian. The rest of your comparisons are apples vs oranges because only religious faithhashad a Constitutional protection.
Remember when the big argument over the separation of Church and State took place? There was never a question, or even a possibility, that Congress would or could pass a law creating a "state religion". The claim was that a school board, by allowing Christian students to read their Bibles on school property (including school buses), or having after school use of the classrooms for Christian groups (as is allowed for Muslims, Wiccans, Jews and other tribal religions) John Q Public would "confuse" the school board with Congress, and since Congress can't make laws respecting religion, school boards should not allow Christians to use school property. But, it seems, these prohibitions are only for Christians: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2583118.html, especially if they have "good grades". Well, that makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?
However, it is going beyond public schools now. Home bible studies are being banned in some cities using "zoning violations" as the excuse. Christians are being targeted and suppressed all across American public life. Their big crime? Opposing the murder of 40 million pre-born Americans on the alter of convenience.
We get what we ask for and man, are we asking for it.
Time will tell.
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Originally posted by vinnywright View PostI still want my rite to have my guns however.
OT, but my personal solution to gun control would be to arm everyone :P
Mine is liable to be the unpopular opinion but I've seen zero evidence that moving IANA to international control is going to have an adverse effect at all. IANA's parent organization (ICANN) has been under private-sector control for seven years and big business hasn't tried to regulate the internet
Do we really think nobody can run teh intrawebz but us?
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