Internet Control

[TWPonKubuntu]

I have a suspicion that Gates will offer some kind of upgrade discount because Windows cannot afford to have Linux replace the current Windows boxes in public areas. I truly hope the bean counters in the city look at the real cost of continuing to offer Windows.

Our library system already has a full time IT staff who are Linux savvy and the other library staff are trained to at least answer questions about usage under Windows... Not so much under Linux, but at least they offer the linux boxes.

[GreyGeek]

... I think the local public library also used Gate's grants to set up their original computers, but the cost for upgrades bit them in the rear. So they are moving to Linux boxes, if somewhat slower then I'd like. They might be waiting for the Windows boxes to die a natural death before replacement...

Good point. I forgot to mention the upgrade costs. One thing that is preventing them from moving to Win7 is that release is no longer supported. Win8.1 support ends 2018 and SP support ends 2023. Support for Win10 ends Oct 13, 2020 and extended support ends 10/14/2025. There is a constant push to upgrade to Win10. That would eventually cost the libraries much more money.

[TWPonKubuntu]

Re library linux boxes, they all use a guest account, non-root access. I've not looked closely at their configuration, since I use my own laptop/wifi when I am there. Might be a custom config on GRUB too. Firefox is default browser on Linux too.

I think the local public library also used Gate's grants to set up their original computers, but the cost for upgrades bit them in the rear. So they are moving to Linux boxes, if somewhat slower then I'd like. They might be waiting for the Windows boxes to die a natural death before replacement...

[GreyGeek]

Interesting! There is some hope on the horizon for Lincoln. A new ISP, Allo, has promised that ALL Lincoln public schools, Libraries, higher ed facilities, and state facilities (like the State Office Bld where I retired from), will get FREE 1GB fiber optic Internet connections. We have free wifi access at our libraries, too, but it is slow. And, NO Linux computers. They came from a time when the Bill Gates Foundation offered "grants" to public libraries with the proviso that funds for hardware had to be spent on computers that ran Windows. I don't see any hardware upgrades coming along any time soon. Also, the library software they are running is Windows centric and they are locked into it. Moving to a Linux system and software would require a massive transfer and transformation of data.

Are your libraries running Linux boxes as root?

[TWPonKubuntu]

GreyGeek; our local public library system is a mixed set of Windows computers, mostly XP and a few Win. 7-8 (access time is limited on all Windows machines) and Linux machines (don't know which distro, maybe Lubuntu) and the Linux machines are NOT time limited and NOT password protected. Somebody in the lib. system does understand economics...

All branches offer WiFi access, without passwords, so it is open to anyone to bring their own laptop, I've even hauled my desktop in, on occasion, when I needed to do a big upgrade. I can get eight hours of Wifi access whenever the branch is open.

They do have a central server in each branch, which I can see as the seed site for a local information repository, serving only the branch computers (assuming the 'net has "failed" or been shut down). The infrastructure is already in place...

We are also a University town, where the public can login to a small number of terminals for limited times (usually 1 hour), BUT access to Univ. WiFi networks is only by pay or registering for a class. Again, the hardware is there, if somewhat limited in public access. All are Windows machines, last time I checked which was several years ago.

With this hardware infrastructure already in place, it makes sense to use "sneaker net" to keep the local repositories up to date.

Just a daydream at this point, but I see the possibility. If "public services" access is denied (the PTB being who and what they are), then local private servers could be used.

[GreyGeek]

Ahh my old friend,
you would be drummed out of the place according to the latest rules by Obama to screw the community colleges and force students to the four year colleges and force perfectly qualified teachers to SPEND MORE THAN THEY WILL MAKE to take............."make work classes on Saturday mornings". at ......the University!

And also to force people who have taught for decades to go back to take a couple of thousand dollars of UNION supplied classes to be "qualified" to teach.

The latest tank of crappola to slide down on us at the beginning of the semester is that one can have a Master's Degree in ANYTHING... literally ANYTHING....basket weaving or fly fishing but has to have a certain minimum numbver of hours IN THE PARTICULAR CLASS that one is teaching to be deemed by the Federal Bureaucracy as worthy.

So... you might have 20 hours in physics but if not 20 hours in electronics then you....are just stoopid...

I have a question to ask.....

Would not one think.....that a PhD that is the head of "division" let us say, physical sciences, would have the KNOWLEDGE and COMMON SENSE to be able to "make a decision" that if a person has taught a subject for twenty years and is cross certified in two subjects that are related INTIMATELY that possibly that person could teach a class? and if the person screws the pooch then the person is dumped or moved into a silo..

but no...........it is all about the unions making money, the MS granting universities making money...

and the STUDENT spending MORE MONEY.............of course, THAT is a political talking head selling point .....for ANOTHER ELECTION in four years...

what a boatload!

woodaaarrrggghhhsmoke

Been there, done that. Even with myundergrad degree, BS Ed., and my grad degrees in Chem, Physics, Math and Bio, to "qualify" for five certifications on my NE teaching certificate the state required that I take the Princeton Exams in those fields. I did. They were supposed to last three hours. I was finished in 30 minutes and my scores were 95% and above. The proctor sat in front of me the whole time watching, so they couldn't claim cheating. Like I've said before, I did have a photographic memory back then. My graduate GPA of 3.57 was because I was working full time supporting my family while I was in grad school. I sure miss that memory.

Even back in the 70' & 80's PC nonsense was beginning to run amok. Teachers in NE had to take "Continuing Education" hours, 15 every three years. So, it was half of the summer vacation at your own expense every year, or the entire summer once every three years. My last CE class was taught by a humanities teacher from Scottsbluff JC, an individual who never grew up and out of the hippy generation. long, stringy, greasy pony tail, Birkenstock sandals, tie dyed shirts, knee length cargo pants, a latte in hand, and a promise to everyone on the first day of class that they would get an A. What followed next was six weeks of Marxist propaganda about our DWEM (Founding Fathers), and all the other talking points of the old CPA and the current Democrat Party. PC was just starting up. What surprised me most was how most teachers just wanted to get their "A" with no fuss and set there like sheep, regurgitating his info on reports and assignments. Perfect sheeple. I argued with him in class, citing references that contradicted his narrative and his rebuttals, from sources more recognized than his "James Baldwin" types. He began ignoring me in class and I began ignoring him as well. All that was required was attendance. The sheeple would always say how much they agreed with me, OUTSIDE of class, but never in class. My last conversation with him was to discuss briefly a paperback from the ACLU called "The Rights of Teachers" and the court appearance he would have to make to justify not giving me the "A" he promised to a roomful of witnesses after I sued him and the UNL.

For nine of the ten years of the 70's I taught sciences in a public high school I was the school education association's negotiating representative. I fought for the jobs of a lot of excellent teachers and, on one occasion, even my own. The big tipping point came when I was fighting for the job of the art teacher. It was his first year. He was a fantastic teacher and connected well with the students. Their reason for not renewing his contract? Shoulder length hair. :facepalm: Negotiations were at an impasse. I recommended a negotiator from the Nebraska Education Association, the parent body of our local association. The NEA rep came and immediately called for a closed session with the board. When he came out he announced that John has lost his job BUT that the board agreed to replace their social studies textbooks with the "Education 2000" series. The NEA tossed John under the bus for the E2000 series, which was, in NE, the beginning of the PC evil Whiteman civics and social studies curriculum. Having been blind sided by my own organization, I researched the E2000 and that's how I was prepared for that Berkeley wannabe teacher at the UNL. The last negotiation with the board that year, over contracts and pay scales for the next year, ended when the board announced that teachers could have money for supplies or for a pay raise, but not both. Instead, I tendered my resignation. The board aside, that was ten years of teaching that I really enjoyed. It was a rural school, we lived five miles out in the country, a half a mile from the South Platte river, and my kids had the pleasure (they didn't see it as such at the time, but later recognized it for the valued education it gave them) of attending a country school, which was essentially a home-schooled environment with K-8 all meeting in the same room. The older kids helped teach the younger and they benefited greatly from that experience. My son tested at the freshman college level going into the 9th grade, and my daughter did as well. They are both college grads earning more than their dad did at the same age in their lives.

Two points:

It's a dark picture.

Sneaker net is not a high data rate system, not even very secure if you implement the encryption schemes you discuss.

[EDIIT] I don't think of "sneaker net" as being something which need encryption, but rather a means of keeping isolated servers updated with roughly matching data. Something like a village server with a few hardwired terminals to serve the community. Our public libraries are similar to this in concept although they are hopelessly embedded in the WWW. If the net went down, then those servers could still have a few terabytes (exabytes or even more?) to serve as the town repository.

RE getting a computer which is not compromised by design would mean making them yourself (Like the Arduino and Raspberry Pi systems). Not yet something which can be made in the home, but 3D printers are becoming more capable...

If the 'net does become too controlled (if it isn't already), then society will have been changed to the point that our (private) businesses will probably be unworkable. Time to find another skill set? I'm a decent gardener and I can repair bicycles...

Have we taken this thread to something like an end? I'd like to have some optimism left...

Good points!

However, the public libraries here in Lincoln have a problem. Most of them are populated with old DESKTOPS and MINI's running Windows XP and IE. The HD's in them are 1GB. The newest library, about a mile from here, doesn't have a single laptop for the staff or the visitors, unless they bring their own from home. Most of the technical offerings are so old they are of historical interest only. I carry more power in the 32GB Kubuntu 16.04 LiveUSB I carry in my watch pocket than they have on their desktops. Indeed, my iPhone6 blows their desktops away. I suspect that other libraries around the country have the same problem. That's why the Internet is so important. It IS the repository for the most up to date information. Lose it and we lose the last 20 years of our culture and will become disconnected as we were before the Internet became so pervasive. The only ones using the Internet will be the PTB, and their "elite" sycophants and suck-ups.

But, to tell the truth, I am not worried. I read the Book. The man on the white horse wins!

[woodsmoke]

thanks for the thoughts kind sir!

I'm ok financially, but we literally had two highly qualified physics instructors one with a PhD in Chem and the other with an MS who are just teaching "terminal" classes to non-science majors that ... a few minutes into the discussion after the announcement, got up and one said....literally, "We're going to go get a couple of glasses of Chateau Fleet Street, ( these really are very intelligent and educated people) because it would cost us more than we make to continue here." ....and they left.

The college will keep me on for biology or environmental science since my preponderance of graduate hours are in biology. But, I'll be driving to another campus because we presently have enough biology people for this campus.

I actually have more total hours in physics than almost all of the other instructors, but, I was going for a PhD and when I didn't need the degree because of "eighty and out' a some of them that I had been taking that were "undergrad" but going to be counted in grad were dropped back...

The thing that is really killing the "part time" high school people and a majority of the instructors at community colleges ( who are MOSTLY retired secondary teachers) is the Obamacare rule that changed "full time" to thirty hours and part time to two sections as opposed to the fifty year unwritten rule of three sections. Part timers have quit and gone to..........where the "uber liberals" detest, the box stores...

they did not need insurance to begin with having their own or a spouses....

So, I'm ok financially after paying off some credit cards that I had used during my volunteer dives with disabled people.

So, I'm down to one dive a year and that in the contiguous U.S. instead of the EXOTIC places!!

In many, many ways i live a blessed life, just not so blessed for disabled people.

hey, again, thank you.

woodgratefulsmoke

[TWPonKubuntu]

Woodsmoke, and that is why I jumped ship and went private... And that was 20 years ago.

I don't envy your position. I hope you can manage to keep on...........................

[TWPonKubuntu]

Two points:

It's a dark picture.

Sneaker net is not a high data rate system, not even very secure if you implement the encryption schemes you discuss.

[EDIIT] I don't think of "sneaker net" as being something which need encryption, but rather a means of keeping isolated servers updated with roughly matching data. Something like a village server with a few hardwired terminals to serve the community. Our public libraries are similar to this in concept although they are hopelessly embedded in the WWW. If the net went down, then those servers could still have a few terabytes (exabytes or even more?) to serve as the town repository.

RE getting a computer which is not compromised by design would mean making them yourself (Like the Arduino and Raspberry Pi systems). Not yet something which can be made in the home, but 3D printers are becoming more capable...

If the 'net does become too controlled (if it isn't already), then society will have been changed to the point that our (private) businesses will probably be unworkable. Time to find another skill set? I'm a decent gardener and I can repair bicycles...

Have we taken this thread to something like an end? I'd like to have some optimism left...

[woodsmoke]

Ahh my old friend,

I taught Physics, Electronics, Calculus, DiffEq, Inorganic Chem, Organic Chem, Analytical Chem, Microbiology, Anatomy&Physiology and Computer Science at a small midwest private college

you would be drummed out of the place according to the latest rules by Obama to screw the community colleges and force students to the four year colleges and force perfectly qualified teachers to SPEND MORE THAN THEY WILL MAKE to take............."make work classes on Saturday mornings". at ......the University!

And also to force people who have taught for decades to go back to take a couple of thousand dollars of UNION supplied classes to be "qualified" to teach.

The latest tank of crappola to slide down on us at the beginning of the semester is that one can have a Master's Degree in ANYTHING... literally ANYTHING....basket weaving or fly fishing but has to have a certain minimum numbver of hours IN THE PARTICULAR CLASS that one is teaching to be deemed by the Federal Bureaucracy as worthy.

So... you might have 20 hours in physics but if not 20 hours in electronics then you....are just stoopid...

I have a question to ask.....

Would not one think.....that a PhD that is the head of "division" let us say, physical sciences, would have the KNOWLEDGE and COMMON SENSE to be able to "make a decision" that if a person has taught a subject for twenty years and is cross certified in two subjects that are related INTIMATELY that possibly that person could teach a class? and if the person screws the pooch then the person is dumped or moved into a silo..

but no...........it is all about the unions making money, the MS granting universities making money...

and the STUDENT spending MORE MONEY.............of course, THAT is a political talking head selling point .....for ANOTHER ELECTION in four years...

what a boatload!

woodaaarrrggghhhsmoke

[GreyGeek]

.... Sneaker net is looking more and more attractive, given the low cost of USB sticks. and even SSD harddrives with USB ports.

What would be needed is an application that formats the USB and then copies the encrypted data to it, and then encrypts the USB stick, all with an RSA 4096 key. A problem that would arise is that if everyone uses their own key to encrypt their data and stick, getting their public key to everyone without the bad guyes getting a copy would be a serious handicap. This "sneaker net" wouldn't be a real network. And, to get info out to a sizable number of people quickly would require an exponential copying of sticks. Person A would make 10 copies and give them to 10 people, along with his public key. They would EACH create 10 copies with their own key and EACH would pass a copy to 10 people. That's 110 people besides A. Each of those ten would ....
From a reception point of view, if I was part of a network of say just 10,000 people I would be spending 24/7/365 just plugging in USB sticks, decrypting them and reading the contents, when I wasn't passing along new content. With a radio I could contact all 10,000 at once and send then an encrypted copy of some content. (The public key being sent manually and surreptitiously at a prior date). With a CO2 modem transceiver the IPv6 packet could be used, with packets looking for a specific hardware address or IPv6 address, without the need for a DNS. We're not talking commercial stuff here so domain names would not be necessary for them. And, most people frequent only a handful of sites, probably not exceeding a couple hundred. The HWadrr or the IPv6 addr for them could be kept in a local database on each user's computer. When word of keyboard (or mouth) gets around about a new addition to the network, or a new computer is added to the network, or a new one that replaces an old one, the addresses could be sent out to all to update the local db that are in the network. What would not be in a local db would be the names or physical addresses of anyone on the network.

Just day dreaming here. I doubt anything such thing like this would ever be built, assuming that people are allowed to own computers in the future that are not made by the State with branding specific to you. If not, then why own one? When the State can do what it wants when ever it wants without recourse what difference does it make if it tells you and I or not? Just like Big Brother, that's what public address systems will be for.

[TWPonKubuntu]

VLF will certainly work for data exchange, if somewhat slower than our current UHF wifi (we have been spoiled...).

Voice and/or Morse is certainly an option and we have a very good repeater setup here, maintained by some of the local HAM's.

Nobody locally is trying data transmission (that I am aware of), I do hear enough legitimate data transmissions that I suspect the equipment is already in the area and if the need arose, the technical expertise is available.

Sneaker net is looking more and more attractive, given the low cost of USB sticks. and even SSD harddrives with USB ports.

[GreyGeek]

GreyGeek, I taught Physics and Chemistry at a Community College. I burned out on the public education system and went freelance doing some electronic and medical hardware design, moving into strictly software in the 90's.

Re an alternate "internet" structure, If you maintain your own 'net, either via hardwire or wireless, it can still be compromised, but not (yet) legislated out of existence. The final alternative is "sneaker net", with runners to transfer data via portable storage devices like USB or SSD. I can see this last option being useful if the current "Internet" (ICANN/IENEA) goes down.

We're not so close to a shutdown of the WWW, but since it is designed to allow such shutdown, it makes sense to plan for alternatives...

Using a lot of 1 GB USB sticks at about $2,30 each, one can pass along a lot of sticks with encrypted info. The public key having been sent by other methods.

That gets me back to the most economical and prolific way of spreading information that has ever been developed. Radio.
http://www.al7fs.us/AL7FS3.html

[TWPonKubuntu]

GreyGeek, I taught Physics and Chemistry at a Community College. I burned out on the public education system and went freelance doing some electronic and medical hardware design, moving into strictly software in the 90's.

Re an alternate "internet" structure, If you maintain your own 'net, either via hardwire or wireless, it can still be compromised, but not (yet) legislated out of existence. The final alternative is "sneaker net", with runners to transfer data via portable storage devices like USB or SSD. I can see this last option being useful if the current "Internet" (ICANN/IENEA) goes down.

We're not so close to a shutdown of the WWW, but since it is designed to allow such shutdown, it makes sense to plan for alternatives...

[GreyGeek]

GreyGeek, I was hearing about the VLF/ULF submarine comms when I taught physics in the '90's. But it is still electromagnetic, which gives the PTB an interest...

I do like the IR lasers though, low power, available now and relatively easy to modulate. Combine this with the proven technology of local internet configurations and it becomes a viable alternative to the ICANN/IAEA system.

Of course it more than likely that an attempt will be made to legislate this into control, but I'm not sure the manpower is available to monitor L-O-S laser links. For that matter, it may already be in use in some places...

Ah, another physics teacher! I taught Physics, Electronics, Calculus, DiffEq, Inorganic Chem, Organic Chem, Analytical Chem, Microbiology, Anatomy&Physiology and Computer Science at a small midwest private college until I quit to form my own computer and criminal forensics consulting business, which I ran for about 15 years before my last client offered me a job my wife wouldn't let me refuse.

Yes, ULF/ELF is still EMR, which is totally controlled from 0Hz to Infinity by the FCC. I have little doubt that an oppressive government would outlaw CO2 lasers as well. I have an 8mm Sony hand camera that has a "Night" mode. A CO2 lamp in front, beneath the lens is turned on and illuminates the region out to about 75-100 meters. In total darkness the reflected CO2 light allows one to make out faces of people at that range and identify them. You can also easily identify animals and foliage. The more heat an object puts out the easier it is to spot and identify it. I could use that camera to see infrared light scattering off of particles impinged by the CO2 beam, thus "seeing" the beam. Thus, the PTB could easily see CO2 modem transceivers as well with their starlight devices. Even from orbit. However, it would be easier than burying our own optical cable.

Embedding encrypted data in IP packets would soon be detected and deleted. And, I suspect, it won't be long before the IP packet definition will be required to include self-identifying information, encrypted by the state, much like Microsoft's GUID, making any modification or embedment of secret data impossible. That would also disallow IPv8 or IPv9, which wouldn't be allowed. That's why I say that IPv6 was made for Big Brother, even though those who created it had no intention of supporting totalitarianism.
That's why using the existing network infrastructure won't work.