Windows 8 and TPM: a frustrating tale of astonishing stupidity

[SteveRiley]

Wrenches are for doing the laundry and house cleaning.

I think you have a spurious "r" in the first word.

[Snowhog]

Every edumacated person nos that u use a pile driver to put a skrew in. Wrenches are for doing the laundry and house cleaning.

[woodsmoke]

And now we see the results of what happens when you use a wrench to pound in a screw

Oh my golly louise.....how many times have I observed that since I started teaching at the college level!

woodsmoke

[MoonRise]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. All I can say is I finally got tired of reinstalling after trying to do what I see as simple things from a tech perspective. Hopefully for users who have to use it I hope the MS WGA (or what ever incarnation it is now) allows that. I don't need that kind of a headache.

[SteveRiley]

The original purpose of CBS was to maintain certain elements of managed code. The some <sarcasm>bright guy</sarcasm> thought it would be a GREAT! foundation for the update mechanism for the entire OS.

And now we see the results of what happens when you use a wrench to pound in a screw.

[GreyGeek]

Sounds like some bugs in component-based servicing. What a monster that thing's become.

The CBS architecture is far more robust and secure than the installers in previous operating systems.

That must be the BIG PRINT.

Moonrise is reading the small print.


Wow! I don't even run Windows and I am learning more about it than when I did run it at work!

[SteveRiley]

WIN8 thought something was broken and tried to repair but couldn't. Trying to find a sound configuration for VBOX and that guest goes very wrong as well. I'm going to chalk that up to it being a test and they have it "limited' somehow. Hope that isn't the new model where changing components causes mass havoc.

Sounds like some bugs in component-based servicing. What a monster that thing's become.

[dibl]

I've been playing with Win 8 on a VMware VM, and I'm with GG on the non-intuitiveness of Metro as a desktop GUI. It may be wonderful on a tablet or something with a touchscreen, but having to have VMware send it Ctrl-Alt-Del every time I want to log in, and double Ctrl-Alt-Del when I want to log out and shut down, is just annoying. "Tin cans tied to its tail" is my impression of that. While it was obvious why I needed to migrate my Windows setup from XP to Win 7 (skipping Vista), it is not at all obvious why I would even think of migrating it to Win 8, unless/until Win 7 reaches the end of all hope of sufficiency.

On the TPM / UEFI thing, being a DIY builder of my own computers, and a Newegg customer for 8 years now, it looks to me like the smart motherboard OEM is going to maintain a line of BIOS-compatible products, or at least products that allow the builder to defeat mandatory lock-in to a self-destructing OS. I'm a Linux user today due strictly to Microsoft's attempts to interfere with my prerogatives as the exclusive owner-operator of my hardware. I'm no more enamored of manipulative controls built into the hardware than I am of manipulative controls built into the OS.

[MoonRise]

Well; what I was able to test didn't seem to fit what I've read about usability on a Desktop. Once you get to the Desktop mode, which isn't that hard, everything was intuitive as one is used to with WIN7. I was able to navigate rather well and even found how to shut down rather quickly unlike one report I read. The start menu is really all that changed and I can actually see the logic in the approach they took to try and be All for everyone and everything. One side note with this test. It is very easy to break WIN8. With Guest Addition install forced me to reinstall several times testing that. WIN8 thought something was broken and tried to repair but couldn't. Trying to find a sound configuration for VBOX and that guest goes very wrong as well. I'm going to chalk that up to it being a test and they have it "limited' somehow. Hope that isn't the new model where changing components causes mass havoc.

[MoonRise]

Don't know about you all but I just had an issue trying to test WIN8 in a VBox VM. All of a sudden it complained that my system was not 64bit capable or VT capable and wouldn't even get to the install screen. Go back to my other 64 bit guest and they too started the same thing. Now, I know they worked before I started because I checked before starting WIN8. OK. What the H#$%! Took me a while after looking up information that led to nowhere but what I finally had to do was in BIOS turn off VT reboot completely into my system. Reboot and back in BIOS turn on VT. OK. I've never had that issue. Is it coincident that this just happen to occur while trying to test WIN8? I've grown cynical of M$ over the years and I can't help but think it truly had something to do with it. I've installed and used VMs for a long time on this machine and not once have I ever had to reset my BIOS. Hmmmmmm. Just don't know how to categorize this issue. Coincidence or not. Comments welcome to this issue as I truly want to test this so I have first hand information to comment either way and this issue actually has me already leaning to a negative opinion.



EDIT: Followed these instructions, no problems so far. http://www.addictivetips.com/windows...on-virtualbox/

[GreyGeek]

Good!

[SteveRiley]

Does this apply only to motherboards from pre-built manufactures? Will the MB's we buy from Newegg not have this?

I would imagine this problem affects only laptops/notebooks/netbooks. TPMs have little utility in desktop computers, although some desktop hardware aimed at the corporate market has included TPMs for a while. However, I just took a quick browse of some Asus motherboard specs and they lack TPMs, and I suspect it's because such manufacturers realize that TPMs are useless in the scenarios their products are used.

Steve, what do you think are the chances that Microsoft could send down and "update" that enables the TPM? (It sure would be a dirty way to force an upgrade to Win8)

That would be classified as a functionality change, which Microsoft hasn't done with service packs for some time now. I'd say it's unlikely that we'd see a mandatory Windows 7 download that would enforce the Windows 8 behavior with regards to the TPM.

[GreyGeek]

Windows 7 can enable the TPM, but you must explicitly do this either with a Control Panel applet or at the command line. The auto-enablement during install is a "feature" of Windows 8.

BTW, TPMs don't virtualize now, so you're still safe if you want to install Windows 8 in a VM. Matter of fact, I'm beginning to think that virtualization will become the primary method we have to stop software from taking complete ownership of the hardware...

Steve, what do you think are the chances that Microsoft could send down and "update" that enables the TPM? (It sure would be a dirty way to force an upgrade to Win8)

[MoonRise]

I have an immediate 'gut feeling' that this will become a class action law suit, and that it will go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court -- if manufactures don't take the measure to stop this practice.

If I buy a PC, isn't it wholly mine!? Used to be it was. With this 'security measure' built into MOBOs, I am now, in effect, just 'renting' the PC. Not cool, man. Not cool at all. :mad:

+1 on that! :mad:

[ScottyK]

Does this apply only to motherboards from pre-built manufactures? Will the MB's we buy from Newegg not have this?