EFI and Linux: the future is here, and it's awful.

[GreyGeek]

Have you looked into Viber or Skype voice on your phones? Or ... slightly smarter phones than you have?

Yes, but to use them would require that I activate the "Media Center", which automatically subscribes me to a data plan, which I refuse to do.

I have Ekiga, Skype and Blink set up with paid subscriptions to SIP on my laptops, so in addition to calling anyone else via VOIP for free, I can call land lines anwhere in the US and most 1st world countries for 2 cents a minute.

Yesterday I signed up with Google for their SIP, so with my Acer, my Sony or my wife's Acer One, or my iPod Touch 4 via wifi, I can talk via landline to anyone in the US for free, and most places Skype charges 2 cents for Google charges 1 cent. AND, Google's Hangout now has trial test of Screen Sharing, which only Skype has been offering.

With free landline calls to anyone in the US, 1 cent/min to land lines in the US and most First World countries, free VOIP to any other Internet user anywhere and, if I understood their marketing correctly, Google mobile apps which allow video teleconferencing via Google Video & Talk on smartphones, Google pretty much has won me over.

Only the Brosix app offers something that Google doesn't: the ability to not only screen share from either end, but the ability to take remote control of a computer from either end of a Brosix connection using you FirFox web browser, IF both computers are using Intel video chips.

[SecretCode]

I don't use 3G because 99.99% of all my calls are to or from my wife. She uses about 1600 to 1800 minutes a month. I might use 120 minutes on a busy month.

Have you looked into Viber or Skype voice on your phones? Or ... slightly smarter phones than you have?

[GreyGeek]

I have 16, 18, and 20 year olds. They all walk around with phones in their hands or sit around with their phone or a laptop. We had to set rules at work concerning cells and thei ussage, because the younger guys were sitting in the trucks texting. Don't know alot of younger people that would be happy without a internet and text capable cell and a decent computer system. If it wasn't that big a deal facebook wouldn't have 800,000,000 million members, not to mention twitter, tumblr, google+. I am not youngish, but I use mobility devices on a daily basis at work. While mobility is the last thing you need a compter for.....that makes you an exception these days. If you have an IPod and an open wifi connection, you have internet access and the ability to make web based calls and text.

At 70 I am more inquisitive than I ever was, it just takes longer to figure out which math model to apply to a problem, or to work the model. I make adjustments. IOW, I've learned to work "smarter", not harder, out of necessity. And, there are some things I don't try any more .... jogging 5 miles, weight lifting, staying up all night, playing chess against my older grandson, ...

I occasionally explain to people half my age or less how to use a feature of their iPhone or Android. It amazes me how so many young people only know how to text and call with their 3G phones. I have yet to meet one who has used FaceToFace, or installed Skype on a mobile device and used it to see who they are talking to. Most simply want 2 us txtng 2 msg ther vbf, and in the process destroy their linguistic skills.

I don't use 3G because 99.99% of all my calls are to or from my wife. She uses about 1600 to 1800 minutes a month. I might use 120 minutes on a busy month. I've used as little as 20. I don't need to see her when I talk because I know what she looks like and I'll see her in an hour or two at the most anyway. My wife and I dropped our land lines about five years ago. We consider her cellphone number as "home", because where ever she is at is home. Our cell phones keep us in constant contact when we aren't at the house.

Another reason why I don't use smartphones is because they cost too much. We pay Verizon $76 for two cell phones, and we've don't have a contract. We were grandfathered in at our current rate when Alltel was bought out by Verizon. Our present cost level is not available to new subscribers. To get two cellphones with 2000 minutes each would now cost over $100 here, probably over $150 when all the charges are added in. Even if I were to get two free smartphones with a new 2 year contract for a 2000 min/mon two phone plan it would cost us $100/mo plus 35cents/min overchargers. If I were to get two smartphones and "pay as you go" it would cost us $2/Mb (not Gb!!). Or, I could add 10Gb/mo for $80, with an addtitional $10/Gb overage, to those two smartphones and the total would be about $180/mo PLUS charges. That could be welll on the way to $250/month. That's outrageous, and an example of what a collusional monopoly does to competition. In France, for example, $30/mo will get you a cell phone with unlimited calls anywhere in France at any time, 40Mb/sec Internet connection, and 200 channels of TV. Our phone monopolies sell ads promoting the viewing of movies and streaming content on smartphones and tablets. It would take only three regular length HD movies to blow through the 10Gb/mo limit. That fourth movie would cost you $30 to watch. Telcos promote "unlimited" data plans to attract 2 year contracts with extortionary cancellation fees and then later label those who would take advantage of the unlimited feature their contract legally allows them to do, "bandwidth hogs", as a justification for throttleing their bandwidth. The data is still "unlimited". They can download what ever amount of data they want to use, but what they could download in 1 hour before would now take 5 or 10 hours, and thus stripping the consumer of their contractual rights with a technicality, the telcos are free to over subscribe their bandwidth to maixmize their profits. At the throottled bandwidth there is only so much data you can download in a month.

[cavedweller]

@cavedweller-- I'm 22, and don't like the idea of this happeming

Think I have to agree with GG. I'll trade you a few years.lol

There are alot of things I don't like happening. I've learned though that I am rarely consulted when they are planned. I just deal with alot of it and remember when having a bicycle was considered having good way to do stuff. I do know that having a Harley is a good way to do stuff. I remember when gas was less than $1.00 a gallon, and you could buy a hamburger at the golden arches for 50 cents. Some days I would like to be younger. Other days I am fine with the age I am.

[cavedweller]

I think this is very untrue. Im youngish and have no smartphone, no tablet, and a 10 year old laptop that has no battery. For a lot of people, like myself, mobility is not an issue. I have zero desire to take my computer anywhere with me and no need to do so. A desktop is cheaper, better in most ways ways, and easier for Linux. Mobility is the absolute last thing I need from a computer.

I have 16, 18, and 20 year olds. They all walk around with phones in their hands or sit around with their phone or a laptop. We had to set rules at work concerning cells and thei ussage, because the younger guys were sitting in the trucks texting. Don't know alot of younger people that would be happy without a internet and text capable cell and a decent computer system. If it wasn't that big a deal facebook wouldn't have 800,000,000 million members, not to mention twitter, tumblr, google+. I am not youngish, but I use mobility devices on a daily basis at work. While mobility is the last thing you need a compter for.....that makes you an exception these days. If you have an IPod and an open wifi connection, you have internet access and the ability to make web based calls and text.

[whatthefunk]

I believe the resistence in change would come from the older generations. The younger generation is all about the latest gadget and it's true functionality. Well I think I will get around, bet one of my bikes out and go for a ride.

I think this is very untrue. Im youngish and have no smartphone, no tablet, and a 10 year old laptop that has no battery. For a lot of people, like myself, mobility is not an issue. I have zero desire to take my computer anywhere with me and no need to do so. A desktop is cheaper, better in most ways ways, and easier for Linux. Mobility is the absolute last thing I need from a computer.

[GreyGeek]

Since AMD supports CoreBoot & Intel doesn't; how will this effect AMD64. CMIIW, bit don't intel & AMD share patents for x86_64, could M$ put enough pressure on Intel to make them take away AMD's ability to produce AMD64. This would also prevent Intel from producing a x86_64 chip (Itanium would be fine). Could linux have to move to SPARC64 (or PPC64) as it's primary processor?

Intel's biggest problem isn't Microsoft, which is becoming increasingly irrelevant, it is mobile devices.
And, Linux runs on more platforms than any other OS. Enterprise demands will keep workstation PCs in production for a long time. Those workstations began switching to laptops in the mid 2000's, so there will be enough laptops to go around for the next 5 to 10 years, IMO.

@cavedweller-- I'm 22, and don't like the idea of this happeming

I'm 70 .... I'll trade ya if I can keep what I know now! Or even split it with you 50-50!

[jpenguin]

Since AMD supports CoreBoot & Intel doesn't; how will this effect AMD64. CMIIW, bit don't intel & AMD share patents for x86_64, could M$ put enough pressure on Intel to make them take away AMD's ability to produce AMD64. This would also prevent Intel from producing a x86_64 chip (Itanium would be fine). Could linux have to move to SPARC64 (or PPC64) as it's primary processor?

@cavedweller-- I'm 22, and don't like the idea of this happeming

[cavedweller]

Consumers may shift to smartphones, and a few to tablets, but the majority of enterprise businesses will remain with the laptop and desktop, and so will the servers. So, PC use may decline, but there were always be a market. A LOT of the smartphone market are people who never bought computers. The big loser may be Microsoft, which is not doing will in the smartphone space, regardless of what they have tried to do. Canonical has a chance in the smartphone & tablet market... it's only chance at turning a profit.

I will agree with you on the enterprise side of things. I know I have a Jotto desk and laptop in my work truck, along with my company iphone 4s. We have all our local lans and wans tied into our servers in TX. I know that isn't going away. While I am not the bigest fan of Unity, I can see where it might come in handy on a smartphone, tablet, or netbook. Seeing that Google is starting to develope a share of web based apps and pretty Ubuntu friendly, and seeing that Ubuntu has a pretty good mix of apps in their software manager including some web based, it looks like a good direction to go. You have an OS that will function accross multiple hardware platforms and web base a host of popular as well as utilitarian apps and you should have a winning combination. I was reading where LibreOffice is planning on releasing a web based version of their office suite in late 2012 to early 2013. If they can do that and manage to keep up with the MS constant changing of their office file format, I think the playing field starts leveling.

Cononical working with Google could start degrading some of MS's demand leverage of everyone to do things their way. You would have multi platform interopribility, which is basically already there. It just needs some polishing and a little more ease of use added it to it. I think with some effort the end result would be something the public would like. A system they can interact and work with from cell phone to desktop that is basically the same. The consumer pays for the initial device and service fees, and after that it would comedown to web based or resident apps, free open source vs non free apps.

I believe the resistence in change would come from the older generations. The younger generation is all about the latest gadget and it's true functionality. Well I think I will get around, bet one of my bikes out and go for a ride.

[GreyGeek]

Consumers may shift to smartphones, and a few to tablets, but the majority of enterprise businesses will remain with the laptop and desktop, and so will the servers. So, PC use may decline, but there were always be a market. A LOT of the smartphone market are people who never bought computers. The big loser may be Microsoft, which is not doing will in the smartphone space, regardless of what they have tried to do. Canonical has a chance in the smartphone & tablet market... it's only chance at turning a profit.

[cavedweller]

It is time to stop pissing around with fluff and foster a hardware friendly environment. end rant.

I am beginning to look at it like this...... The tablet with a touch screen is going to more than likely be the wave of the future. I think that other than for gaming purposes or bragging rights the desktop will fade away. The power system in the house will be a laptop, and the portability of the netbook, tablet, and smartphone will become the standard. As this transition happens I expect we will see a usable web based version of LibreOffice or something similar on the scene. Optimized for speed and ease of use. I think this is the area where open source will finally start to shine. As web base takes over, what a person will need at that point is the ability to connect to and interact with the web based applications and content. This will effectively eliminate Microsoft's hold on the market, and I think they know that. Hence the push to lock themselves in as the only viable method of operation.

I think the focus right now needs to be on the portable platform and the development of the web based application base and it;s ease of use. The faster it develops into an easy to use viable option, the quicker Microsoft looses it's ability to bully.

As far as hardware and driver compatibility that is pretty much controlled by the hardware manufacturer and their willingness to release the source code for development by the open source community. I believe we would see that process become a little more GPL friendly if we saw the push to the web based environment focused on. At that point the playing field will be leveled I believe. Hardware manufactures will be graded on the quality of the actual product they manufacture. The software driving the hardware as well as the ease of use of the system to the end user will be up to the distro developer and those that support and use the hardware and distro.

At this point in the ball game I believe that Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical are sitting in the best position with the right mindset to take advantage of this scenario, but we will see.

[ardvark71]

This is my point. I purchased a netbook from system76 a year ago for my mom. I did this because I wanted the smoothest linux experience possible for her. Unfortunately, power management had a bug and was a major pain. Of course, I let system76 know in their sub-forum on the ubuntu forum. I was thinking "this is why I bought it from a vendor". They will look into it and have a fix in the repo in a timely manner. They didn't. Of course I can come up with a work around, but my mom can't. I don't mean to rant...I just think it is stupid to have all these developer resources working on GUI fluff, meanwhile I don't have the full capability of my hardware. It doesn't matter how pretty anything is, if my wireless network, my power management, graphics driver or "whatever" doesn't work. It is time to stop pissing around with fluff and foster a hardware friendly environment. end rant.

Hi all...

I think the fluff has it's place but I would agree that more efforts toward hardware compatibility and functionality are badly needed. An example that comes to mind is when I installed Ubuntu 10.04 from a flash drive on a client's netbook. The install went smoothly but when I rebooted, the system hung directly after the BIOS screen. Fortunately, I had read at some point previous that there were conflicts with Linux and the P2P (or something like that) setting enabled in the BIOS. Disabling that allowed the install to work beautifully. :-)

I doubt my customer would known how to diagnose this himself had he been the one to install Ubuntu. He would simply would have been without an OS to run on his computer as a Windows reinstall was out of the question.

Regards...

[blobfish]

More than likely it will be a 3rd tier vendor like System76.

This is my point. I purchased a netbook from system76 a year ago for my mom. I did this because I wanted the smoothest linux experience possible for her. Unfortunately, power management had a bug and was a major pain. Of course, I let system76 know in their sub-forum on the ubuntu forum. I was thinking "this is why I bought it from a vendor". They will look into it and have a fix in the repo in a timely manner. They didn't. Of course I can come up with a work around, but my mom can't. I don't mean to rant...I just think it is stupid to have all these developer resources working on GUI fluff, meanwhile I don't have the full capability of my hardware. It doesn't matter how pretty anything is, if my wireless network, my power management, graphics driver or "whatever" doesn't work. It is time to stop pissing around with fluff and foster a hardware friendly environment. end rant.

[GreyGeek]

....There are some big players interested in linux IBM, Google, Redhat etc.. you would think that there would be some influence to support linux.

There is support by those big players... but at the same time each is striving for a market advantage that they can use to lock in customers, or lock out other competitors.

Apple, for example, exploited OpenSource to bring OS X to market faster, but didn't return anything of value to the community because the modified source specifically called binary drivers which were not available to Linux users. Hence, Safari is Konqueror refashioned for the Mac OS X, but a Linux box can run Safari. Similar tricks are being tried with PostgreSQL, Java, and many other FOSS.

EUFI is Microsoft's attempt to lock Linux out of the PC market. It is using its legal and financial clout to force/intimidate other corporations, mainly the PC and peripheral OEMs, to comply with its Win8 "certification". IF they don't comply then the price of Win8 to them becomes significantly greater than that paid by the other OEMs who do knuckle under. In addition, PC OEM profit margins are so RAZOR thin that often the proift isn't in the sale of the hardware but in avoiding spending money on advertizing. In a Quid Quo Pro for "certifying" their hardware to Win8, Microsoft will pay for ads featuring Win8 on their hardware, as they've done for previous versions. Hence you see Win7 ads (and soon Win8 ) showing Windows AND some specific vendors hardware, which is prominently displayed running Windows. This is sneakier than how it was before the DOJ trial the late 1990s. Before they were enjoined not to do so as a result of the trial, Microsoft forced OEMs to sign agreements (under an NDA --- sound familiar? smartphone makers running Android?) that prohibited the OEMs from offering any other OS pre-installed on their desktops, without Microsoft's approval. Then as now, those that didn't comply didn't get "favored OEM" status and found themselves uncompetitive. Their "oxygen supply was cut off". Thus, DELL made a big show about offering SUSE, then RH, then Ubuntu on "selected" hardware, but it was hardware that didn't have many options or peripherals available, at a price that didn't reflect the savings not having to pay for an OS license would provide. By my own count, the maximum number of machines on which Linux was offered was 6 out of 42, but those six were machines with limited capabilities and available options or peripherals. At NO TIME did DELL put links on their HOME page pointing to their Linux offerings. Doing a search for Linux boxes on their site resulted in a scattered offerings of distribution offerings, but rarely hardware. You had to be clever to find the Linux pages, and surrounding each link leading into that rabbit hole, and even on the pages showing Linux offereings, were banners and buttons proclaiming that "DELL Recommonds Windows". IF they wanted to kill any potential sales of machines running Linux they couldn't have done a better job.

IMO, the whole fiasco was a CON JOB designed to give the illusion that the PC desktop market was a level playing field and the only reason why Linux wasn't doing better is because consumers "prefered" Windows, which is an obvious lie. Obvious because the only way a majority of Linux users can run Linux is to:
1) download an iso from a distro's website
2) burn the iso and check it to validate the burn
3) set their BIOS to boot from the CDROM first, then boot the LiveCD.
4) install the distro, doing the necessary partitioning if the entire HD wasn't given to Linux.

In spite of those steps, Linux use grew through the last decade. It was 3% in 2003 according to IDC, who predicted 6% in 2006. That must have been accurate because Ballmer himself reported that the Linux desktop market share was around 12% in 2009, at the height of the VISTA fiasco. Now, governments, military and businesses are moving to Linux en masse', and yet FEW of the PC OEMS are, as of yet, offering Linux preinstalled. Only HP is offering a single model as an enterprise workstation, not a consumer desktop. ALL of these movents to Linux are because folks are using the four steps mentioned above. THAT, alone, shows the demand for Linux is real and palpable. Linux does not have an "Accounts Receivable" from which it can draw ad money to promote Linux. So, websites, magazines and news media are careful not to offend Microsoft with many pro Linux stories for fear of having their "air supply", and hence payroll, cut off. But, despite the roadblocks of the past Linux moved around them and continued to grow. The EUFI is nothing less than an attempt to use a "shotgun", pellets hitting multiple targets at a time, to stop Linux. The EUFI attempts to block Linux at the hardware and software level across the market.

As the PC market share declines OEMs who haven't begun making smartphones, which is most of them, will be hard-pressed to sustain a profit in the declining market. They'll want to maximize the monetary benefits they can get from kneeling to Microsoft's demands. Microsoft will want the EUFI to be as locked down as possible, and Microsoft will punish those OEMs who do give PK certificates to Linux distro makers and make Linux drivers for their peripherals. That is why the FIRST OEM who breaks their chains and escapes from the Microsoft plantation by offering a PC which offers either CoreBook or is sold naked will reap rewards. Exactly when and with what vendor this will occur depends on the duration of their legal agreements with Microsoft. It will be tough move. More than likely it will be a 3rd tier vendor like System76.

[blobfish]

Why does this hardware manipulation continue to happen? (I know why). We saw this with usb, graphic card drivers, wireless network, power management and now with the bios change. There are some big players interested in linux IBM, Google, Redhat etc.. you would think that there would be some influence to support linux.