[Post-Install] If Wayland is such a disaster, why is it being forced on us to such an extent?

[Don B. Cilly]

OK, please forgive the controversial title, but I am more than usually pissed off.
I finally managed to set up a Kubuntu 26.04 machine, which I so far resisted to do because I had so many applications that depended on Python2, and... well.
The fact is, I was still using 20.04 in 2026, which was getting way too ridiculous.
Now, I was able to upgrade (actually I set up a new PC, I still have the 20.04 one and use it for some things) satisfactorily because I have a very knowledgeable personal assistant (ChatGPT :·) and it actually rewrote some apps to make them work on 26.04.
Some others it patched.

So far, so good.
Except.. I get all sorts of annoying glitches, like docks disappearing, widgets losing pieces, applications needing restart to work again, and so on.
ChatGPT blames Wayland... and I'm inclined to think it's right.
So I tried logging on with X11 - after installing it - and, well, it's just not usable.

Therefore my title: if Wayland causes so many problems, why can't we have the option to have a funcional X11 display?

[claydoh]

Howdy stranger! Long time!

Basically Wayland doesn't cause "so many problems" for the vast majority of people, and x11 is still a viable and working session option, at least in Plasma LTS for a number of years still.

The thing is, I'm thinking that your experience here is completely unrelated to Wayland or xorg, considering that you are having a bad time with that, too.

[Don B. Cilly]

I log in with X11, the external monitor shows an empty session with the default wallpaper and nothing else except two icons that do nothing when clicked.
I tried a few times. Sometimes the mouse doesn't work, sometimes the keyboard.
Mostly they both work on the laptop.
I tried restarting (twice in case I did it from the wrong session), it always goes back to Wayland.
Now, personally I don't want to work without an external monitor or with barely working mouse and keyboard, so I'm stuck with Wayland, especially considering it always boots into that no matter what my last session was.
The Wayland behaviour... they're mainly minor annoyances, but there are quite a few of them. Considering this is a two-weeks-old clean installation, I find it surprising, but then, if no one else is reporting them... I don't know, maybe it's the Mediterranean weather

Still, out of curiosity, if you log in with X11, does everything work normally?

[claydoh]

I log in with X11, the external monitor shows an empty session with the default wallpaper and nothing else except two icons that do nothing when clicked.
I tried a few times. Sometimes the mouse doesn't work, sometimes the keyboard.

I think that when switching between the two, it is like having separate monitor settings between them, at least in some cases. It has been in my experience.

Things simply not working like this are NOT from Wayland or X11.

I tried restarting (twice in case I did it from the wrong session), it always goes back to Wayland.

It should log in to the last session you picked, wayland or X11, or another desktop environment, same as it ever has done in the past.

You might try an autologion to a specific session to see if that works. Again, this sort of thing is unrelated to Wayland or X11.

The Wayland behaviour... they're mainly minor annoyances, but there are quite a few of them. Considering this is a two-weeks-old clean installation, I find it surprising, but then, if no one else is reporting them.

Even more reason why I think something is borked here. I have no idea what, though.

[Don B. Cilly]

Well, X11 is unusable here anyway.

Still, out of curiosity, if you log in with X11, does everything work normally?

Have you tried?

BTW, another small annoyance was that applications always started minimised, which I didn't like, and I had to make a special window rule to fix that.

[claydoh]

Have you tried?

Yes. No problems other than my monitor settings changing (not my desktop setup), as I mentioned. And only in multi-monitor setups, though my current Kubuntu is single screen/ I have had zero issues using X11 at all, though I only ever use to see if there is a reproducible thing to check for, like now. Having issues using X11 is unusual.

BTW, another small annoyance was that applications always started minimised, which I didn't like, and I had to make a special window rule to fix that.

I definitely do not have that problem. Session restore *is* one of those things that doesn't work great in Wayland yet, and is much much better in Plasma 6.7 but still needs some work.. Having all windows minimized is not something I have ever seen myself. They all open in the middle of the screen in 6.6.

[jrwatts]

Now, I was able to upgrade (actually I set up a new PC, I still have the 20.04 one and use it for some things) satisfactorily because I have a very knowledgeable personal assistant (ChatGPT :·) and it actually rewrote some apps to make them work on 26.04.
Some others it patched.

I'm very suspicious about your use of ChatGPT here...LLMs can be great when they give accurate results, but there's also a very good chance they give totally out-of-date (or even completely wrong!) results, too, and if you aren't knowledgeable enough yourself to identify when you get bad results, you can really munge things up. The bit about "it actually rewrote some apps" particularly makes me wonder....

(As a concrete example, I recently tried to look up a how to change a setting for Okular; the "AI summary" instructions told me to go to a menu option that doesn't exist, at least not in the current version of Okular. If anyone actually knows how to configure Okular to cut the beginning of tab titles instead of the end when you have too many tabs, please share! )

[Don B. Cilly]

Yes. No problems other than my monitor settings changing (not my desktop setup), as I mentioned.

Well, I'll go with the Mediterranean weather hypothesis then
I quite like the weather here, so I'll take the glitches.

if you aren't knowledgeable enough yourself to identify when you get bad results, you can really munge things up. The bit about "it actually rewrote some apps" particularly makes me wonder....

Maybe I'm not... even though I like to think I can recognise bad results :·)

The two actual apps it rewrote were XplanetFX (a wallpaper generator that shows the earth with near-real-time clouds, and used Python2) and Victron Connect (a battery shunt monitor which I really like).
Also Latte-dock, which now works on Plasma 6.... even though that still doesn't work too well, so I use Cairo-dock - which it patched.
Then it fixed my super-conky (which I really like) - and it works perfectly, and rewrote a lot of service menus which weren't working properly - and now do.
I don't think it ever touched Wayland itself.

[RobertLM78]

The thing is, I'm thinking that your experience here is completely unrelated to Wayland or xorg, considering that you are having a bad time with that, too.

I'm inclined to agree. And for all that can be said about Wayland, at least it's an attempt to replace a system that was never even built for the sort of machines we run today.

I'm very suspicious about your use of ChatGPT here...LLMs can be great when they give accurate results, but there's also a very good chance they give totally out-of-date (or even completely wrong!) results, too, and if you aren't knowledgeable enough yourself to identify when you get bad results,

Exactly...!!



and P.S. .. what's up with this forum software? I go to quote someone and it quotes another post further up the list; i try copying some text and i get the damn formatting too... seriously obnoxious... :-/