Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

    Recently I had a system crash, possibly hardware-related, that destroyed my installation of Intrepid Ibex, so I had to reinstall it. That meant that I had no useful customizations -- I was starting all over (although I had preserved /home). And the more I worked with KDE 4.1, the more frustrated I got with all the missing features from KDE 3. So since I had no big investment in customization, I've wiped II and loaded Hardy Heron.

    I find the plasmoid stuff mysterious, but that's my own fault since I haven't yet taken the time to really learn about it. Were that the only problem with KDE 4.1, I'd live with it and figure that after a while I'd put in the necessary effort. But the missing or degraded features are another story, and from what I read on the Net, some of these problems are unlikely to be fixed for a long time, if ever.

    Let's start with the K menu, since that's the starting point anyway. The KDE3 K menu lets you choose a category, and when you mouse over it, the items in that category fly out. Not so with the KDE 4 K menu. You have to click on a category to see what's in it, and click again to get out of it if it's the wrong one. So scanning categories to look for something is quite a chore. The new K menu is a little prettier, but that hardly compensates for the loss of function. And when I posted a "bug" (request for flyouts), I got the answer that nothing was going to change -- the authors like it just the way it is. I cannot understand why the new version is considered an improvement -- though fortunately it's possible to go back to the KDE3 version, at least for now.

    Then there's the Disks and Filesystems section of the System Settings. It simply went away in the Hardy -> Intrepid transition, with no indication that it ever will come back or even have a functional replacement. Sure, you can do those things by manually formatting partitions and editing /etc/fstab, but why should it be necessary when Kubuntu already included the facility in Hardy. I tried using the KDE3 installation for Intrepid but it didn't bring back Disks and Filesystems.

    Annoyances continue, and I almost certainly haven't uncovered the last of them. Under KDE3 I was able to have a desktop background that faded from one color to another. Not in KDE4 -- and I shouldn't have to resort to GIMP to get that. Under KDE3 I could get the icons on my desktop aligned and sorted by name. Not in KDE4.

    I guess that as new versions come out I'll try them to see if things have improved, but I won't repeat my mistake of actually installing them until I see that the annoyances are fixed.

    #2
    Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

    My problems are not with KDE, since I don't use it. But what's got me keeping 8.04 is I really like Kompozer and Gwenview. Neither of which work in II or JJ.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

      You keep mentioning KDE 4.1, but Jaunty is up to 4.2.1 and running very well on my laptop. Can you dist-upgrade?
      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

        Originally posted by GreyGeek
        You keep mentioning KDE 4.1, but Jaunty is up to 4.2.1 and running very well on my laptop. Can you dist-upgrade?
        I suppose I could, but I'd first want to know if it solves the problems I've enumerated above.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

          It certainly solved your network problem.

          Only you can solve the plasmoids being a mystery.

          Right click the K and select "switch to classic menu style".

          sudo aptitude install kinfocenter or partitionmanager or qtparted


          Comment


            #6
            Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

            Originally posted by pwabrahams
            ...
            And the more I worked with KDE 4.1, the more frustrated I got with all the missing features from KDE 3. ...
            Features aren't "missinng", they are just implemented in different ways.

            I find the plasmoid stuff mysterious, but that's my own fault since I haven't yet taken the time to really learn about it. Were that the only problem with KDE 4.1, I'd live with it and figure that after a while I'd put in the necessary effort. But the missing or degraded features are another story, and from what I read on the Net, some of these problems are unlikely to be fixed for a long time, if ever.
            Plasmoids are small, dedicated applications (applets) which leave icons on either the desktop or the panel, depending on how YOU install them. Right mouse on the desktop and chose "Add Widgets" and they will appear on the desktop, unless they were specificallyd designed to go on the panel or in the system tray. Right click on the panel and chose "Add Widgets" and their icon will appear on the panel, unless they were designed to go on the desktop. After installation hoover the mouse over an icon, or click it, depending, to cause the appropriate action.

            Let's start with the K menu, since that's the starting point anyway. The KDE3 K menu lets you choose a category, and when you mouse over it, the items in that category fly out. Not so with the KDE 4 K menu. ....
            So! Right click on the K-Gear menu icon and chose the "Classic menu". While the dialog is up notice that the menu editor is accessible from that dialog.

            Then there's the Disks and Filesystems section of the System Settings. It simply went away in the Hardy -> Intrepid transition, with no indication that it ever will come back or even have a functional replacement. Sure, you can do those things by manually formatting partitions and editing /etc/fstab, but why should it be necessary when Kubuntu already included the facility in Hardy. I tried using the KDE3 installation for Intrepid but it didn't bring back Disks and Filesystems.

            Annoyances continue, and I almost certainly haven't uncovered the last of them. Under KDE3 I was able to have a desktop background that faded from one color to another. Not in KDE4 -- and I shouldn't have to resort to GIMP to get that.
            wmmount, automount?

            Under KDE3 I could get the icons on my desktop aligned and sorted by name. Not in KDE4.
            Yes, you can! Right click on the desktop and and the "Folder View" plasmoid to the desktop. After it is added it will automatically display the folders in your home account. If you right click on the wrench icon you can select the "Desktop Folder" view instead of having all the folders in your home account listed. Then, you can drag an icon from a menu or sub menu onto the desktop folder and chose "Link Here". Or, you can right click in an empty are of the Desktop folder and chose from the classic desktop options that KDE3 gave you.

            I guess that as new versions come out I'll try them to see if things have improved, but I won't repeat my mistake of actually installing them until I see that the annoyances are fixed.
            You DID notice that Kubuntu 9.05 Jaunty Jakalope is in the ALPHA stage of development, didn't you? That means it is not even BETA yet. For being an ALPHA release Jaunty is in excellent shape IF you kept up with the dist-upgrades and updates. I have given my entire HD to Jaunty and KDE4.2.1 and it has not disappointed me.

            By the way, if you want to put application icons on the panel the way to do that is to right mouse on it and click "Add Widgets". From the Widget double click the "Quick Launcher", which automatically installs it on the panel, preloaded with Kopete, Konqueoro, and a third one, the name of which I've fogotten. If you right mouse on the Quick Launcher you can add additional applications to it, or remove one you don't want. It's intuitive.

            "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
            – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

              And since JJ is still in alpha, the fact that it has any features at all are irrelevant, until Final. Well, maybe that's a bit cruel, a good solid Beta might be O.K.

              I'm with the OP on having doubts about KDE 4. The only times I've tried it have been via LiveCDs from II and JJ -- neither of which worked on my laptop -- and the one time (since getting another hard drive) that I took the leap of faith in installed JJ Alpha 5. Followed immediately by removal. From what I have seen, KDE must be very special, and very big. It boots slowly and is entirely uninspiring once there sitting on my desktop looking all mysterious and new. I'm sure there are really wonderful technological reasons for adopting KDE 4, I just can't find any functional reasons for doing so. A desktop exists to launch and maintain one or more graphical-based programs -- for my use -- and provide a means to communicate with and among them. From what I've seen, KDE 4 does not enhance that functionality and in some respects seems to make things more difficult (i.e., sudo dpkg -i some-package-or-other, to get some previously useful function back in). I like Kubuntu, and so once again, when JJ is final I'll fire up my extra drive and install it to see what it is like.

              I had no joy with II, and so there was no question about staying with HH. I know the answer -- and yes, if I don't like it I have the choice to move on to something else. Parting will be tough. But I just have two things to remember: 1) Kubuntu 8.04 was the last *buntu to willingly run on my laptop, and 2) yes there are other ways to run in the Linux world in which I choose to run.
              The next brick house on the left
              Intel i7 11th Gen | 16GB | 1TB | KDE Plasma 5.27.11​| Kubuntu 24.04 | 6.8.0-31-generic



              Comment


                #8
                Re: Why I'm reverting to Hardy Heron

                Originally posted by jglen490
                And since JJ is still in alpha, the fact that it has any features at all are irrelevant, until Final. Well, maybe that's a bit cruel, a good solid Beta might be O.K.
                While it is true that ALPHA's undergo a lot more changes and experimentation than the BETA's, developing a desktop is LABOR INTENSIVE and isn't taken lightly by developers. I doubt the KDE/JJ dev and support people would add or remove features willy-nilly, or on a whim. Certainly, on JJ, I have NOT noticed any wild or even obvious changes in features. Just a steady improvement in stability and usability.

                I'm with the OP on having doubts about KDE 4. The only times I've tried it have been via LiveCDs from II and JJ -- neither of which worked on my laptop -- and the one time (since getting another hard drive) that I took the leap of faith in installed JJ Alpha 5. Followed immediately by removal.
                I, too, have experienced problems with LiveCD's on my laptops. Up until JJ NONE of the prior Canonical LiveCD releases of GNOME or KDE would run on this Sony VAIO because they couldn't configure the G45 video chip or the wireless chip. Even Mandriva would not drive the G45 chip and for 6 months I used VESA on Mandriva. BUT, those are EXCELLENT distros which gave/give EXCELLENT results for hundreds of thousands of users on a variety of laptops. That I and others had problems with GNOME or KDE before JJ doesn't mean that they are bad desktops. Even VISTA, which came preinstalled on this laptop, barfed a lung on the G45 chip a couple times, but it gave me no other problems, except for its lack of security and intrusive DRM. Imagine my surprise and joy when JJ saw AND properly configured my 1600X900 display and the wireless chip. It's nice to have 3D accelerated video back.

                From what I have seen, KDE must be very special, and very big. It boots slowly and is entirely uninspiring once there sitting on my desktop looking all mysterious and new.
                That is a hardware dependent statement. My laptop contains a Centrion2 (2.1GHz dual core) with 3GB of RAM and a 233 GB HD. From power on to a working KDE 4.2.1 desktop takes about 70-90 seconds. I wouldn't call that slow. VISTA on this laptop took 3-4 minutes to boot and sometimes longer to shut down if updates were installing. A friend of mine booted the JJ on his Compaq 64bit laptop and it booted to a working desktop, while running from the LiveCD, in about a minute too!

                KDE4 isn't "special" in the sense you seem to mean. KDE3 was developed and is being supported using the Qt3 widget set, which is destined to go away sooner or later. KDE4 development and support uses the Qt4 widget set, which is more powerful AND FASTER than the Qt3 widget set. Both were made using C++. There were a LOT of features which would have been MORE difficult to develop using Qt3, or not possible at all without tacking a lot of code onto Qt3, in shanty town style. Doing that and still maintaining backward compatibility would have made Qt4 bloated, buggy and slow, which it is not.

                I'm sure there are really wonderful technological reasons for adopting KDE 4, I just can't find any functional reasons for doing so. A desktop exists to launch and maintain one or more graphical-based programs -- for my use -- and provide a means to communicate with and among them. From what I've seen, KDE 4 does not enhance that functionality and in some respects seems to make things more difficult (i.e., sudo dpkg -i some-package-or-other, to get some previously useful function back in). I like Kubuntu, and so once again, when JJ is final I'll fire up my extra drive and install it to see what it is like.
                I find the opposite to be true. For a short time I had to revert to KDE 3.5.10 on Mandriva, after using KDE 4.1.3 for several months, and felt like I had stepped back a generation in power and functionality. On KDE3 I used Konqueror for file management and browsing. After using Dolphin for a while I find switching back to Konq to be very limiting. Also, I didn't like the way KDE3 treated USB mounts. On KDE4 the USB and CD/DVD mounting and dismounting are essentially transparent. Kubuntu 9.04 is turning out to be the BEST distro/desktop I have ever run, and I've been running Linux since May of 1998.

                I had no joy with II, and so there was no question about staying with HH. I know the answer -- and yes, if I don't like it I have the choice to move on to something else. Parting will be tough. But I just have two things to remember: 1) Kubuntu 8.04 was the last *buntu to willingly run on my laptop, and 2) yes there are other ways to run in the Linux world in which I choose to run.
                Sorry to hear that, but don't forget, you were using an ALPHA desktop. Rather than complain and make spurious judgments about KDE4, why don't you switch from being part of the problem to being part of the solution? How? Continue to run KDE4 and, instead of posting complaints, report problems, but with specific data. After all, you WERE running an ALPHA to begin with, so it is not a matter of needing or requiring a stable, functional desktop or you wouldn't have installed an ALPHA desktop in the first place.
                "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                Comment

                Working...
                X