Going back to KDE 3

[pwabrahams]

As someone pointed out, KDE4 is not yet feature-complete. Because of my frustrations with it, I'd like to revert to KDE3. Is there an easy way to do that? Even better, can I run them both by selecting one or the other on login?

I'll probably try KDE4 again in a few months.

[Troberg]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

I agree, KDE4 is not ready for general use yet, it lacks too many features and it is not stable enough yet. I'm sure I'll use it eventually, but not at the moment, and I advice new users to stay away from Intrepid because of it. Basically, by making Intrepid KDE4 only, they made it impossible to use in a production environment. KDE4 is simply not ready yet, it's beta level software.

Have a look in this thread: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3096011.0

In that thread, there's all you need to run KDE3 in Intrepid. I've not tried it myself yet (which I'm a bit ashamed of, as I said I would, but I've had a private situation which has required my attention), but so far, the verdicts are good.

[claydoh]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

And go here to see why it has been temporarily shut down.

please read The Kubuntu release announcement for some info before installing/upgrading, or at least run the livecd beforehand.

[Bongo5HH]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Obligatory statement... sorry.

HUH?

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I'm totally confused by people who say KDE4 is not ready for use. I'm a near complete linux idiot and it's been my daily driver for ages now. I've been using it on three computers, one desktop and two laptops for all kinds of different things in different environments.

Each of us uses our computers our own way - joy of linux - but more and more I'm getting confused by these sorts of posts.

Kev

[claydoh]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Actually, it is relatively easy to understand. It all stems around change. You, Bongo5HH, as a self-described 'linux idiot' imply that , as a 'newbie' you are used to the learning and change. I think a lot of this backlash are from somewhat-recent KDE users, and I would guess those who have basically mainly used KDE3.5.x as it is about 3 years old now (KDE3.x itself is nearly 7 years old now, and KDE4's life began nearly 2 years ago). These users haven't seen the changes and features KDE have created and added to their DE to get from 3.0x to the DE they have today in 3.5! I don't see the negative sentiments as much from those of us who have been using it before then(1.4x for me), or from newer linux users in my travels about the 'net. New users may not like KDE4, find it different or whatever, but don't rant and rave about how bad it supposedly is because you can't configure your taskbar in 7 different ways (yet ) or that Konqueror is (supposedly) broken as a file manager when it isn't.

[Snowhog]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Agreed. There are two types of OS users - Dynamic: Those who are fluid, adaptable, flexible in their thinking and approach to the OS and the evolution it goes through, and - Static: concrete, unwilling, inflexible in there world view of an OS, believing (insisting) that it remain "as it was" without any evolution. I won't be the one to say that the latter is an incorrect view; to each his own - Linux is, as we know, all about freedom of choice.

I've been using KDE 4.x.x (now at 4.1.3) since it first came on the scene as remix. I've seen it evolve and improve. Is it perfect? No. Will it (ever) be perfect? In a truly honest reply: No. Why? Because perfection will always remain a subjective observation, subject to the interpretation of the observer.

[Bongo5HH]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Interesting points claydoh.

I only ever used KDE3 for a year and a half. Most of that time was learning what it was like to have options instead of doing things the way the OS demanded - as per all my previous experience with computers.

So I guess my flexibility has been determined by my linux experience.

Interesting.

Kev

[Pajoe]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

pwabrahams,

I understand your frustration, I have been using linux exclusively since Suse 5.3 ('98?) and there are many times over the years it has become extremely frustrating. More than once I have had issues after upgrading, such as a scsi scanner or printer etc. that worked perfectly suddenly becomes unusable because the changes in the kernel; most times if you can just wait it out the fix will come. I hated KDE4 at first, mainly because it was so sluggish on my system, but know that it will get better. Recently I deleted the "desktop folder" on the desktop and just placed icons much in the way I did KDE3 and much of the desktop speed has returned. I am not a linux guru, actually forgot what little I learned over the years but as long as there are forums where you can copy the commands and paste them in the terminal to execute the fixes, I can get by.


Oh , I love the new weather forecast plasmoid:

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show...?content=92149

[Troberg]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Snowhog and claydoh: Sorry, but that's bollocks, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I like the new thinking in KDE4, it has great potential. However, KDE4 is nowhere near as stable as KDE3, and not stable enough for a production environment. If you don't mind an occasional day of downtime, great, try it out, but if that downtime will cost a lot of money, don't. Also, it lacks many, many features which KDE3 has. If you need one of those, stick with KDE3.

For me, lack of stability and lack of features are showstoppers. I'm sure someone will pop up and say that it runs nicely on their machine and has everything they need, and that's great for them, but it is not stable enough for my requirements and it does lack some features I need. That's why I wait. I wait eagerly, because I really, really like KDE4, but it has to be ready first. At the moment, it's too big a gamble for a serious application, but I'm sure that in a year or so, it will be ready.

[claydoh]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

There are two types of OS users - Dynamic: Those who are fluid, adaptable, flexible in their thinking and approach to the OS and the evolution it goes through, and - Static: concrete, unwilling, inflexible in there world view of an OS, believing (insisting) that it remain "as it was" without any evolution. I won't be the one to say that the latter is an incorrect view; to each his own - Linux is, as we know, all about freedom of choice.

I have to agree with snowhog. Linux, as a community-oriented, open source group of projects, needs both kinds of users. The code has to be used by some in order to at least find out what needs to be fixed or worked on so that those who need and crave stability can have that at some point while still providing the ubiquitous KDE configurability.

case in point: KDE2 to KDE3 migration. There were fewer KDE users back then, and fewer venues for venting in general, but the uproar was pretty vocal. KDE3 was too much like WinXp, wasn't stable enough, there was too much a focus on eye candy. Even talk about a fork. Sounds kinda familiar, eh? But KDE kept adding features and UI tweakabilities, and fixing things, pleasing both the stability lovers and the bleeding edge lovers both quite admirably all at the same time (else we wouldn't be discussing these things today )

What really is bugging me most the fact that many feel there is some sort of negative thing about staying with Hardy for a while. Those waiting for KDE4.2 will be more than pleasantly surprised from what I have seen in kde-nightly. And 4.2 will arrive much sooner than KDE3.2 did to boot.

[caryb]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

Perhaps this might help those who cant handle change

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese

Cary

[Troberg]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

What really is bugging me most the fact that many feel there is some sort of negative thing about staying with Hardy for a while.

Well, there is a risk that I might miss out on some non-KDE-related updates, new kernels, new hardware support and so on. I want to move forward, but not so fast that balance is lost.

Still, my recommendation when I help people get started with Linux is to go with Hardy. It is more stable, has more features and is more newbie friendly. I'm sorry, but for me, Intrepid is the Windows ME of Kubuntu. A temporary setback, but the next version still has potential.

[pwabrahams]

Re: Going back to KDE 3

There are two types of OS users - Dynamic: Those who are fluid, adaptable, flexible in their thinking and approach to the OS and the evolution it goes through, and - Static: concrete, unwilling, inflexible in there world view of an OS, believing (insisting) that it remain "as it was" without any evolution. I won't be the one to say that the latter is an incorrect view; to each his own - Linux is, as we know, all about freedom of choice.

The issue for me isn't new paradigms versus old -- it's KDE3 features that have obvious counterparts in KDE4 that are simply missing. Some examples:

1. The ability to create desktop backgrounds that shade from one color to another, which I use a lot. Sure, it's possible to create them in a graphics program, but that's a much more awkward and inflexible way of doing it. For instance, in KDE3 you can easily change the colors of a shaded desktop. Doing that using a graphics program involves quite a few extra steps.

2. Having items in a category on the kickoff menu fly out when you pass over the category, thus enabling you to scan for a particular item quickly. Without the flyout you have to click on the item and then click again on the back button. For looking at six categories, that gets tedious pretty quickly.

3. Having an operation to align the items on the desktop.

As far as I can tell, none of these (and there are more) are in any way inconsistent with the spirit of KDE4.

And instability can hardly be considered part of the KDE4 paradigm either. At least I hope not.