Update problems

[BobI]

I have just trashed my perfectly working Kubuntu Hardy system on an HP TC1100 tablet PC by updating it. WiFi no longer works and cannont be brought back up. I cannot access files on other partitions or on my thumb drive. I cannot get on line. I cannot bring up Firefox, etc., etc., etc. Right now I am accessing this forum using Knoppix, as I cannot get on-line with my installed system. I do not understand how this could happen. I guess that my request is for a more thorough check-out of updates and the updating process so that this does not happen to other users. It could easily turn people back to Windows!!!

When I leave this forum, my plan is to use Knoppix to retreive my personal information to my thumb drive, then wipe out the trashed system and re-install. This is a major PITA, and should not be necessary.
Bob I

[GreyGeek]

Re: Update problems

I've got a fully updated KDE 4.2.1 desktop, and it is running very well.

The best way to mess that up is to inadvertently downgrade to KDE3. I ALWAYS check what is being added and removed on EVERY update. I learned this lesson a few years ago while playing with Knoppix 3.4, IIRC. I had recently upgrade from KDE 3.1 to KDE 3.2. I was busy adding other KDE3.3 apps when I let a KDE3.1 app slip into my selections. I watched in amazement as all of my KDE 3.2 apps and desktop were deleted and replaced with KDE 3.1, simply because a KDE 3.1 app was in my list of selections. So, I redid the upgrade to KDE 3.2 and after a while I had a working KDE 3.3 desktop again. I thought that was so neat, and reliable, that I got careless. The next time it happened it trashed KDE 3.1 and I couldn't reliably upgrade to KDE 3.3.

I've noticed the same potential trap on Jaunty, and it is probably on any deb or rpm repository. On a couple occasions while updating Jaunty, once when there were 94 apps being updated, another when 30 some apps were being updated, and once when I chose to add the VirtualBox guest tools, the "Files to Remove" listed my KDE4 desktop and all of its components, and in the "Files to add" were listed the KDE3.5.10 desktop and its components. Needless to say, I canceled the install.

Keep a watchful eye and don't assume. Synaptic, KPackageKit or apt-get will do EXACTLY what you tell them to do. IF you have them install a KDE3 app onto your system, and that app requires the KDE3 desktop and its components, they will do what you asked. After all, it is only a program. It would be nice that if your desktop was KDE4 and those tools noticed that installing an app would replace KDE4 with KDE3 it would require the user to acknowledge and approve of the change.

[BobI]

Re: Update problems

I upgraded to Intrepid and KDE 4 on another machine, and hated it. I detest what they did to Konqueror. Which is why when I got this little beauty, I installed Hardy and stayed with KDE 3. I don't know what went wrong with the update. Now I have hours of work to get the WiFi working, load my favorite apps., get the tablet features working, etc. Right now I'm using XP, until I can do all that work.
Bob I

[GreyGeek]

Re: Update problems

What they did to Konqueror?

What changes are you referring to?

The changes I've noticed in Konqueror were made when it was part of KDE 3.5. The version I just looked at on my KDE 4.2.1 desktop looks and runs like I remembered it to look and run before I switched to KDE4.

When this issue was brought up to Siego he said that Konqueror was not changed or dumbed down or crippled. Konqueror and Dolphin use the same engine underneath.

Maybe it's time to switch to Jaunty?

[BobI]

Re: Update problems

Well, here's what I found with the Konqueror and KDE 4 that came with my copy of Intrepid. It no longer worked satisfactorily as a file browser. I could not access other partitions on my HDD, I could not access my USB flash drive. I had great difficulty even accessing folders in the Linux partition. I tried it as a web browser, and it worked OK until I tried to load an encrypted web site (my bank) and it failed altogether, just giving some brief text message about not accessing the site. Maybe complaints like mine caused the people who maintain it to restore some of it's functionality. Of course, maybe I got a corrupted copy.
Bob I

[GreyGeek]

Re: Update problems

Well, here's what I found with the Konqueror and KDE 4 that came with my copy of Intrepid. It no longer worked satisfactorily as a file browser. I could not access other partitions on my HDD, I could not access my USB flash drive. I had great difficulty even accessing folders in the Linux partition.

I opened my Konq and it came up as a web browser. I loaded the "File Manager" profile and it worked very well in that capacity. You are right about not being able to access other partitions or the USB drive. You must mount them first, which is the way I remember Konq working in the past. Then you can access them BEFORE you unmount them you must be sure that Konq's focus is NOT on any drive or partion that you have mounted. Park it on the Home directory first. Otherwise, you will get a msg saying the drive or partition is "busy" if you try to unmount it. IF that happens you can open a root Konsole and issue umount -l /mnt/whatever.

I tried it as a web browser, and it worked OK until I tried to load an encrypted web site (my bank) and it failed altogether, just giving some brief text message about not accessing the site. Maybe complaints like mine caused the people who maintain it to restore some of it's functionality. Of course, maybe I got a corrupted copy.
Bob I

That's because you didn't make a mime link (file association) between the service/format/media you wanted to access and the application that treats it. I've noticed that in various distros and at various times some file associations are pre-set and some are not. There are only a few standards and sometimes they don't work.

[BobI]

Re: Update problems

GreyGeek,
Well, I'm 77, maybe just as "grey" as you are. But your response points to a criticism I have had with Linux for some time now, and that is that it often requires knowledge that ordinary users do not have. The same with many replies I have read and received. Why should I have to "load the fine manager profile" when in earlier versions I did not have to? Why should I have to "make a mime link (file association) between the service/format/media you wanted to access and the application that treats it" when I didn't have to in the earlier version? Why the inconsistency?
I really like Linux, especially Kubuntu, and use it for the vast majority of my work with this machine. I only keep XP on this HDD because I have a few programs that I use from time to time that have no real equivalents that I know of in Linux. I am a ham radio operator and have a logging program called "Win-eqf" that will not run on Wine. So I keep XP around.
I will continue to run Hardy as long as I can. I think that Canonical plans to keep supporting it for the foreseeable future. Hope so, anyway.
Bob I

[GreyGeek]

Re: Update problems

GreyGeek,
Well, I'm 77, maybe just as "grey" as you are.

Well, Bob, you've got me beat by almost 10 years. I am only 68. My hair is gray, what's left of it.

But your response points to a criticism I have had with Linux for some time now, and that is that it often requires knowledge that ordinary users do not have. The same with many replies I have read and received. Why should I have to "load the fine manager profile" when in earlier versions I did not have to? Why should I have to "make a mime link (file association) between the service/format/media you wanted to access and the application that treats it" when I didn't have to in the earlier version? Why the inconsistency?
......

Because developers are people too, and, realities change, medias change, formats change, laws change, and ideas change about how things should be run. One man's dream desktop is another's dungeon. I began my career in computers programming IBM 402 tabulators by jumping banana plugs between slot points and common ground in 1960. The field has been in constant change every since, and I don't expect it to be any different in the future. The only way to avoid change is to pick a desktop, install it, and stay with it as long as you can. The best OS to do that with is Linux. It is not uncommon to have Linux computers run 24/7 for as long as 3 or more years without a crash or reboot. Find a Linux distro you like, update it to the latest patches and then set on it for two or three years, or longer, and don't change a thing once you get it working the way you want.

[BobI]

Re: Update problems

GreyGeek
You give me good advice. I'm not a programmer, nor do I have any expertise with computers, other that that I have acquired over the years. I love to tinker. I used to build up my own ham rigs. I have built up most all the computers I have used over the years ( I think that I started with an 8080 machine in the late '70's.) I don't leave things alone for long, when I think that there is some new program to try or a better configuration for my machine, hence the problem I got into in the first place with this machine. Right now Hardy is working fine and I am no mood to fuss with it right now, except to maybe get the touch screen working in Kubuntu like it works in XP. I have no need for the eye-candy in KDE4.
Thanks for the help.
Bob I