What are the Implications of Kubuntu with Wayland and Ubuntu with Mir

[oshunluvr]

You're obviously annoyed but I think it's too early to jump ship just yet. We're over a year away from initial release and several more before X goes away. I think this is what Steve had in mind.

[rec9140]

Not in the least funny or humorous......

Chill...

That kind of response to my clients would not be, and is not funny. I've spent a lot A LOOOOOOOT of effort to dump crap OS's, and get them on Linux. Now after only a few years Linux wants to upset the cart and ditch it all!? ? ?

These desktops all 100% rely on XDMCP internally and externally. Again thats great that a certain faction of users/developers don't use it, fine, but there are those of us who do and it is a requirement. No I see no need to add another layer to get back what works today, with X.

We'll have robust X support at least until 14.04. No word yet whether Canonical will continue with the LTS enablement strategy to backport 14.10 improvements into 14.04. As for how Kubuntu evolves post 14.10, we can't predict this right now.

This is going to turn into the fiasco I expected when this whole wayland situation started.

Again... let me reiterate, wayland has been weighed and measured and found wanting for my use, and my clients... I and my clients need to know where were headed... and that looks like Linux will not be the future... after all the work to get them on Linux, ditch paying the ms tax for OS and productivity software... URRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH This really is a dumb move... again save your wayland is the saviour to the world, I am not interested.

This is just going to fragment things even more...

Distros using X and those not and DE supporting X and those not... this is NOT a good thing. And a redux of the whole KDE 3 to KDE4 transition... with those sticking to X left out in the cold and unable to use KDE...

This really is just annoying.

[SteveRiley]

It's a dumb move for anyone who isn't Canonical...and that includes the ubuntu community.

That is a more elegant and nuanced version of what I said. Thanks

[kubicle]

For a dumb move Canonical sure is putting a lot of resources into it. New hiring and all.
Whatever.

It's not necessarily a dumb move for Canonical. Canonical wants to make money on phones/tablets and they want a graphics stack that they have full control over...and one they can turn proprietary with a flick-of-a-switch.

It's a dumb move for anyone who isn't Canonical...and that includes the ubuntu community.

[lcorken]

Canonical has expressly said: "The purpose of Mir is to enable the development of the next generation Unity." See that? Unity only. The community is free to adapt it for other desktops; however, people doing so should expect two things:...

Well, that makes Mir useless to me then. I tried Unity and decided it's not for me. Unity and Gnome 3 are just too weird for me. KDE, LXDE, XFCE, E17 are all at least usable.

I have an Android Galaxy S2 that I mostly just use as a phone. A friend came to visit recently. She had what I thought was a net book but turned out to be an I-Pad with a docked keyboard. It occurred to me that at our age (mid 60s) we may be seeing a generation gap relating to mental/physical/functionality changes in ways of thinking and doing stuff.

No real reason to. It's a dumb move.

For a dumb move Canonical sure is putting a lot of resources into it. New hiring and all.
Whatever.

Ken.

[SteveRiley]

It will be interesting to see if Mir will work on or even improve some of the lighter DEs like LXDE, XFCE or even Razor or Enlightenment

Canonical has expressly said: "The purpose of Mir is to enable the development of the next generation Unity." See that? Unity only. The community is free to adapt it for other desktops; however, people doing so should expect two things:

1. They must sign and agree to be bound by Canonical's Contributor License Agreement (and Matthew Garrett has some opinions about that).

2. The underlying Mir API and ABI can change at any time, without regard to backwards compatibility. Today, your DE works; tomorrow, it breaks. This is the primary reason so many other DE maintainers wish to avoid Mir.

Trying to keep an open mind here.

No real reason to. It's a dumb move.

[lcorken]

It will be interesting to see if Mir will work on or even improve some of the lighter DEs like LXDE, XFCE or even Razor or Enlightenment. May be good for the low-end or older hardware. Trying to keep an open mind here.

Ken.

[SteveRiley]

I am curious as to how much apt-get purge and apt-get install and other gyrations are going to be needed for those of us who want to use future versions of KDE and Kubuntu on X and X only...

So ... cut to the chase... are those of who want to use X borq'd out of future versions of KDE and/or Kubunutu?

As asked above... I can see huge amounts of grief and non fucntional systems and trying to purge wayland and get back to X etc... This potentially leaves me with upgrading to a 14.10 version for the long term support with its X based system

Chill...

We'll have robust X support at least until 14.04. No word yet whether Canonical will continue with the LTS enablement strategy to backport 14.10 improvements into 14.04. As for how Kubuntu evolves post 14.10, we can't predict this right now.

[rec9140]

And for those of NOT interested in wayland and additional layers?

As a LOOOOOOONNNNGGG time KDE user and user of KUbunutu variants ......with out KMint I would still be using inferior OS's...but.......

I am curious as to how much apt-get purge and apt-get install and other gyrations are going to be needed for those of us who want to use future versions of KDE and Kubuntu on X and X only.

I am not interested in getting into a debate on they merits or demerits of wayland v. x. I am firmly in the NO THANKS to wayland camp. For a lot of reasons, one I use XDMCP etc.. I am not interested in adding more layers to get X to work... Enjoy your new fangled toy... let those of use who wish to stick with the tried and true, X do so.

So ... cut to the chase... are those of who want to use X borq'd out of future versions of KDE and/or Kubunutu?

As asked above... I can see huge amounts of grief and non fucntional systems and trying to purge wayland and get back to X etc... This potentially leaves me with upgrading to a 14.10 version for the long term support with its X based system, and then being stuck there, or going back to inferior OS's... using non *buntu deriviatievs ie: Debian are issues due to several factors, mainly software packages, ease of installation of same etc..

Again... I will reitereate, this is not a x v. wayland debate topic... enjoy... I am not interested... I am severely concerned about my systems, the systems I install for clients and the future of KDE and Kubuntu.

[sithlord48]

no susprise here why whould we use Mir anyway? kubuntu is a kde upstream distro we try not to heavly patch the packages. the situation will make it very fun people who are installing ubuntu then trying to put kde on top of it or any other non unity DE for that matter.i wonder if all the flavors will take the same route.

[kubicle]

http://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/26/kubu...ng-mir-or-xmir

[MoonRise]

This is depressing. I dont want to find a new OS:cry:

Same here!

A not unreasonable approach would be for Blue Systems to take a larger leadership role. Begin by consolidating the effort: why maintain both Netrunner and Kubuntu? Blue should evaluate the gains that consolidation might bring. Next, Blue should spend some money: bring an accomplished X/Wayland developer on staff. From here, it might be possible to rebase onto Debian, and create a solid, first-class KDE with all the freshness of current packages. Divorcing Kubuntu from Canonical would bring a welcome degree of stability. SA(B)DFL's whims are beginning to tire me.

Reasonable path to me but that of course is Blue's decision.



sigh.......

[NoWorries]

Canonical's Mir move doesn't sit well with some Linux developers

Looks like the word is getting out about SA(B)DFL's decision to develop Mir. Networkworld has an article dealing with this issue. I am patiently waiting for a revolt against Mir by the open source community.

[dibl]

As a preview, wayland packages are now flowing into Debian Sid:

root@imerabox:/# apt-cache policy wayland*
libwayland-client0-dbg:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2
  Version table:
     1.1.0-2 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
libwayland-server0-dbg:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2
  Version table:
     1.1.0-2 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
libwayland0:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
     0.85.0-2+b1 0
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libwayland-dev:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2
  Version table:
     1.1.0-2 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
libwayland-server0:
  Installed: 1.1.0-2
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2
  Version table:
 *** 1.1.0-2 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
libwayland-cursor0:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2
  Version table:                                                                                                                 
     1.1.0-2 0                                                                                                                   
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages                                                        
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages                                                          
libwayland-cursor0-dbg:                                                                                                          
  Installed: (none)                                                                                                              
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2                                                                                                             
  Version table:                                                                                                                 
     1.1.0-2 0                                                                                                                   
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages                                                        
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages                                                          
libwayland-client0:                                                                                                              
  Installed: 1.1.0-2                                                                                                             
  Candidate: 1.1.0-2                                                                                                             
  Version table:                                                                                                                 
 *** 1.1.0-2 0                                                                                                                   
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages                                                        
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
root@imerabox:/#

[Rog131]

Timetable - sort of

http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/18...el.html#t11:15

Riddell mgraesslin: so my current thinking is we expect kubuntu 14.04LTS to have KWin on X and for 14.10 we can see if switching to wayland is ready using packages synced from debian 11:15

mgraesslin yes

http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/19...el.html#t05:45

tvoss mgraesslin, hmm, that would be great as we have a working qpa implementation for Mir. Do you have some ballpark estimate for the qt5 switch? 05:45

mgraesslin when master opens up again - in a few weeks 05:46
mgraesslin we plan to have a development preview release this year 05:46
mgraesslin for Kubuntu the earliest release on Qt 5 can be 14.10, maybe 15.04 05:47
mgraesslin 14.04 will come 4.11 just like 13.10 05:47