Who is controlling power in Kubuntu?

[kostiagol]

Hello! Long time ago, when linux was easilly controlled thru scripts in /etc/init.d and Kpowersave did the job, I was (allmost) happy.
Now, I completely lost, Who is controlling the powerstates in Kubuntu now?
By default there's only Upower and pm-utils installed and upstart controlls services start, no laptop-mode tools. Here's a list of my power related questions:
1) PowerDevil (wich represents Kpowersave now) does not controll anything except LCD brightness. When I start my laptop, when KDE session starts - it makes screen 100% bright, OK, at least something is working But no matter what settings I set in PowerDevil, after some time screen turns off (on any laptop, with any graphics driver), and not only internal LCD, but even plugged via HDMI. Who is controlling my screen settings?
2) I have USB soundcard, and use jackd and so on, Because of power rules (which I don't know where to find), sometimes it goes to sleep. Maybe it is not sleeping, but stops making sounds, I must restart jack, to make it work again. I don't know how to do it with default tools? Only howto I've found is about laptop-mode-tools (you need to blacklist USB device ID) but laptop-mode-tools not installed by default, maybe pm-tools can do it? Who controlls USB power in Kubuntu now?
3) Without laptop-mode-tools frequency scalling on my laptop with AMD processor is not working. Is this a bug? Why laptop-mode-tools not included?
Where I can find info about power control in Kubuntu? I mean frequency scalling, screen brightness, wireless network, bluetooth, USB devices. Who is controlling it now?
Why I'm asking it here, and not ubuntu forums? because Kubuntu uses PowerDevil and KDE, maybe there is a difference.

[SteveRiley]

For #1, search the forum for threads concerning screens shutting off. There's a display management power setting that you can change.

For #2, I don't have a suggestion, as I've never used jackd.

For #3, the answer is more general. The kernel and most drivers have made numerous improvements over the years. Some of the legacy thinking about how to manage power no longer applies; the kernel and the hardware manage power on their own. The kernel itself now defaults to the ondemand governor. HAL was deprecated a long time ago in favor of other tools from the Free Desktop project, including UPower. Fewer knobs and dials and switches are exposed in userspace, so PowerDevil had to adapt to these changes. laptop-mode-tools hasn't been maintained for some time, and Ubuntu (plus the flavors) dropped it a while ago.

[kostiagol]

Thank you for the answer, but this means, that in modern linux distribution like Ubuntu/Kubuntu, there is no way to configure it? Only dirty hacks like this: http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthr...ement-features ? Which spread over the forums like magic potion, nobody knows how it works and is it working at all, but people use it and then starts problems (like in comments for this "tutorial"
I can't understand how to controll Upower? Here is official manual: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...upowerd.8.html and this http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/.../upower.1.html And it is modern operating sistem? It is voodoo magic! that's what it is!

About screen brightness: I have seen many times, people writing scripts, adding xset -dpms to ~/.profile ... why?
Am I only man having such problem? No.
My laptops are different? No.
My Kubuntu DVD is different?
Kubuntu and KDE/Powerdevil developers didn't know about this problem? They all know about it.
Then tell me why, so many years developers can't add this string (xset) to default settings in powerdevil switching or do it right way? Is it so hard? Every user must digg internet for a dirty hack, and half of this hacks are outdated, or written by some moron and can even break their computer!

About USB devices: jackd looses syncronisation, because Upower (or kernel) tells to device to switch to standby mode (or something like this). But I had same problem with USB harddrive, when copying files, left computer, come back in 20 minutes - Dolphin shows error, can't finish job, because this **** upower told harddrive to go to sleep....
I am from the moon? my karma is bad? my hands are wrong? It is default Kubuntu, I didn't change anything.
There must be the way to control powersaving features in linux? Powersaving is good, but sometimes it goes to much.
I don't know what to do, because I killed upowerd, but something still is standing on my way, something switches my devices.
Not only I have this problem, my friends say same, different computers, different devices, different distributions, oh... all with KDE I think I must talk to upower developers.

About Powerdevil and other KDE features: I think KDE project is dying, because things getting worse and worse. Developers can't maintain this huge monster. Look what happening with the dolphin, it lost half of cool features since last release... They promissed that KDE 4 will be a fullfeatured desktop environment, and what I see...

[james147]

About Powerdevil and other KDE features: I think KDE project is dying, because things getting worse and worse. Developers can't maintain this huge monster. Look what happening with the dolphin, it lost half of cool features since last release... They promissed that KDE 4 will be a fullfeatured desktop environment, and what I see...

I do not agree with this... I have not encountered any of the problems you have so it is clearly not broken for everyone... KDE development has also improved allot over the last few years and from what I can tell is continuing to pick up steam, yes we have lost a few things as newer technologies have emerged and there have been allot of new technologies in the past few years, but what we have lost are mostly being added back as the technologies mature or left out as they are no longer relevant.

What is happening to dolphin? What major features have we 'lost'? I can barely name any let along 1/2 of the features dolphin has... Some thing have changed, but from what it use to be it has only really gained functionality.

I can only suggest that you file a bug report for any feature you think where unduly removed as that is the only real way to get it added back.

[SteveRiley]

Only dirty hacks... Which spread over the forums like magic potion, nobody knows how it works and is it working at all, but people use it and then starts problems (like in comments for this "tutorial"

Well, in a later post in that thread, I document what each of the settings does, so I'm not sure how you can substantiate your claim that "nobody knows." Furthermore, it's rather curious that you perceive the comments there to be indicative of "problems." Yes, changing the RC power settings for Intel graphics can affect performance, but this should come as no surprise.

I can't understand how to controll Upower? ... And it is modern operating sistem? It is voodoo magic!

You're looking in the wrong place. UPower is documented at FreeDesktop.org. One of the goals of UPower is precisely to avoid voodoo-like work, and instead incorporate intelligent abstraction layers that allow modern kernels and device drivers to take advantage of the automatic power management features included in newer hardware. Two years ago, an "ugly hack" script for power management had to be much longer and far more brittle than the short one I wrote up above. In fact, that "ugly hack" was popularly known as laptop-mode-tools.

About USB devices: jackd looses syncronisation, because Upower (or kernel) tells to device to switch to standby mode (or something like this). But I had same problem with USB harddrive, when copying files, left computer, come back in 20 minutes - Dolphin shows error, can't finish job, because this upower told harddrive to go to sleep

I find it somewhat difficult to believe that UPower would instruct a hard drive to spin down while it's active. Typically, spin-down is controlled by the drive's firmware, and spin-down occurs only after a period of inactivity. Nevertheless, if you think UPower is the culprit, file a bug.

[NoWorries]

I hope that I am not oversimplifying your problem, but I would suggest that you go to System Settings > Power Management and there you can set numerous options such as Display Brightness, Screen Energy Saving and so on.

[dmeyer]

I hope that I am not oversimplifying your problem, but I would suggest that you go to System Settings > Power Management and there you can set numerous options such as Display Brightness, Screen Energy Saving and so on.

I think what he is more concerned with is things like: changing the cpu scheduler, hard drive spindle speeds etc. There really is no good way to do it anymore except maybe using the run script function under power management. The problem is that there isn't a unified, simple interface to work with. As an upside though, you can tweak a ton of cpu settings with the cpu control plasmoid but that is a manual input.

[james147]

I think what he is more concerned with is things like: changing the cpu scheduler, hard drive spindle speeds etc. There really is no good way to do it anymore except maybe using the run script function under power management. The problem is that there isn't a unified, simple interface to work with. As an upside though, you can tweak a ton of cpu settings with the cpu control plasmoid but that is a manual input.

As much as I hate gnome dumbing down the interface, I would equally hate kde making the interface stupidly complex by adding in every single thing you could tweak when 99% of the time the kernel knows the best option (even when you think your smarter).

These days there is little need to tweak the low level setting like the cpu governor, the default "on-demand" is best for every situation except maby an over heating laptop... and the same goes for most of the other settings. The reason it use to be easier to change is that the kernel wasn't as good as it is now a days at managing it all.

[luckyone]

I tend to agree. I've never needed that kind of control. However the problem with sound stopping working is a pretty big problem. At least a big irritant.
I'd think first of another program interfering with the USB sound system.
Second I'd check the BIOS to make sure nothing was set that might interfere with it.

[james147]

I tend to agree. I've never needed that kind of control. However the problem with sound stopping working is a pretty big problem. At least a big irritant.
I'd think first of another program interfering with the USB sound system.
Second I'd check the BIOS to make sure nothing was set that might interfere with it.

I agree, but it is a bug that needs to be fixed/work around not an excuse for more easy to access options. My guess would be the usb port being auto suspended when it shouldn't be. This might be of interest.

[SteveRiley]

These days there is little need to tweak the low level setting like the cpu governor, the default "on-demand" is best for every situation except maby an over heating laptop... and the same goes for most of the other settings. The reason it use to be easier to change is that the kernel wasn't as good as it is now a days at managing it all.

Precisely.

[james147]

O and the reason we have "lost" these programs that let you managed these settings you really shouldn't be touching unless you know dam well what your doing and so have probably read all the man pages and documentation any way so know how to configure the stuff you want to configure with out a gui... * takes a breath *... is because the way in which these technologies work has changed up to the point where the old programs just don't work any more. The maintainers probably see them as a waste of their time as you just don't need them any more so they have not bothered to update them for the way things now work.

If they do not work the way that you think they should you have found a bug and should report it to the maintainers so it can be fixed and possibly find a way to work around the problem in the meantime.