Another rant

[rec9140]

Re: Another rant

In a "directed" organization, whether corporate or nonprofit or whatever, it is possible (if not mandatory) to have a strategy. The senior

Linux has no such organization, and nothing that I would characterize as direction, therefore it is not possible to generate a strategy or a mission statement. It is developed by volunteers, and volunteers are, by definition, not directed by anyone else -- at least not with any enforcement. Some pieces of the community, such as Canonical or Debian, are more organized than others, but even so they are totally dependent on the larger volunteer base.

And is exactly what is one of its biggest weaknesses and strengths, but firmly in the weakness category and hurting adoption.

I finally figured out what nepomuk and strigi are for when I read a detailed instructional piece about them, by a guy who does Linux support all day every day. He has a zillion e-mail messages on his system full of technical issues and solutions, and he needs to search them multiple times per day. Hey -- wouldn't a grand semantic desktop search tool be cool? Enter nepomuk!

No! In a word. If its an option to add this cruft, fine, not the ram it down my throat option, screw up my email program, cause huge performance issues etc.. I have tons of emails too and search them just fine in KMail (not KMail2) with out any assistance from any thing else. One persons problem and solution is not a fit to a wider audience, except as an O P T I O N.

[rec9140]

Re: Another rant

If I've understood it correctly, X and all its protocols would still be able to run as one of Wayland's clients.

Don't need this extra layer.

In fact, the reason Wayland has been even considered as a replacement is the fact that it offers full compatibility (though full backwards compatibility is one of those myths like a stable API). The xorg devs have said that Wayland offers a chance to start anew and scrap a lot of the spaghetti code in X.

Rewrite and fix the problems, fine. Trash it and throw out things, ie features - > XDMCP simply because you don't use them, wrong.

The world operates and is operated by a lot of things that have been surpassed, but they are used because they are reliable. Check out the infrastructure of some of your more well established retail chains, your will find all kinds of stuff running on z/OS and TN3270 or TN5250 connections, and XDMCP. This last one is big in remote computing for some rather big hitters, like oh. Lockeed Martin. Waltz around major research facilities what you going to see? BSD, Solaris, and even some Linux, but X every where.

Such an approach has been pretty successful for G[censored] 3.

Really? ? ? I don't think so. Most revile it as the excrement it is, but I am a KDE only and uber alles person. The howls and growls for 2.x versions of distros is all to familar tome of KDE 4.x

But I wouldn't worry, I'm sure the major players in the field like Red Hat largely have the same interests as you when it comes to maintaining systems. If anyone pushes Wayland, it will be Canonical, which does promise a disaster, but a Debian install is pretty easy nowadays.

Which is a two fold problem.

RH and its sibilings CentOS etc. are well, politely, no thanks.

Canonicial and its deriviatives have improved a lot of things, done a lot of less than bright things, but its got Linux on desktops, laptops etc. in places it may not have been.... Debian is great, and I only consider Debian based distros for a lot of reasons, but theres reasons why I don't use pure Debian. The DFSG gets in the way of things and makes things like MP3 a huge headache, not to mention other things.

Canoncial and others have dramatically made things in Debian land much better than just pure Debian.

I've been through all these discussions in other fora, and I reject all of the "alleged" great improvements and holy grail of wayland. Its curing what does not need to be cured, and a cure worse than the disease. Lets fix X, and the code and its problems. Keeping all of X's features, and extend/add what is really needed. But throw it all out with the baby and the bath water, no thanks.

I will take X, thank you.

[Snowhog]

Re: Another rant

You can make this the default for apt by adding the following to /etc/apt.conf:

APT::Install-Recommends "false";

The semicolon on the end is required.

Personally, I prefer to use aliases instead.

[de_koraco]

Re: Another rant

I will take X, thank you.

I'm also rooting for X. I mean, I use an X window manager (not even written for Linux), start my session with xinit, use xset to handle the screen configuration and choose mouse theme (lol), xfontsel for choosing fonts, and so on. So my preference is exactly the same as yours, though for different reasons - I'm actually using X for the desktop, whereas you guys on Kwin have X as a hurdle to bypass most of the time.

It's just that I haven't seen any mention of Wayland bringing doom to the features of X, like network display. I may be wrong, though, but since X and Wayland are supposed to share the same infrastructure (drivers and so on), I'm not sure there's a move to kill off stuff. It's a wait and see thing though, if Wayland ever does come to the destkop, it's gonna be a horrible disaster for at least a year

[pwabrahams]

The positive view, which I don't share

There's another thread going (Topic 3118704.0 -- how do I provided a link to it?) on how great the Oneiric release is. I agree with the posters in this thread, but I won't duplicate my tale of woe here since it's already in that other thread. I'll just mention that the kmail transition seems to be a particularly nasty problem.

[bendy]

Re: Another rant

While I have my email working now, I still have 2 other annoying problems. One is that my main nvidia chipset/graphics desktop machine doesn't shut down cleanly using kde's shutdown dialog, and browsing some web sites in rekonq or konqueror somehow causes libreoffice to start.

I'm inclined to think that kubuntu 11.10 was released too early for the sake of matching ubuntu's release date. I also noticed that there were no rc releases of kubuntu this time round (I usually start playing with new kubuntu releaes when the first rc comes out).

I've read in other threads that some of the known kde problems are scheduled to be fixed in 4.7.3 which will be out in early november. Perhaps the kubuntu team should have waited a while, pushed out another beta with kde 4.7.3 in early november, with a view to a final release in mid-november.

Personally I would rather wait another month if I could avoid some of this release's problems.

Also, the kde 4.7 packages in natty-backports didn't include kmail2. Perhaps oneiric should have done the same and saved kmail2 for 12.04. There could have been a kmail2 ppa for masochists who want to play with it.

[Snowhog]

Re: Another rant

Also, the kde 4.7 packages in natty-backports didn't include kmail2. Perhaps oneiric should have done the same and saved kmail2 for 12.04. There could have been a kmail2 ppa for masochists who want to play with it.

I've been running Oneiric since the September 21, 2011 'daily build'. I am running KDE 4.7.2, and Kontact/Kmail are both version 4.7.2. Kmail2 comes in if one has, or activates, the Pre-released updates repository, which I do not have active. That said however, I agree, that a very DIRE warning should have been published about disabling this repository before upgrading to Oneiric. Ones email is probably the most important element of their OS, and the developers should have ensured that no harm to this was caused by any upgrade to Oneiric.

[rec9140]

Re: Another rant

It's just that I haven't seen any mention of Wayland bringing doom to the features of X, like network display. I may be wrong, though, but since X and Wayland are supposed to share the same infrastructure (drivers and so on), I'm not sure there's a move to kill off stuff. It's a wait and see thing though, if Wayland ever does come to the destkop, it's gonna be a horrible disaster for at least a year

waycruds LACK of "network transparency" thats dev speak for XDMCP, is one of the things to go. No it will be a disaster, PERIOD.

Also, the kde 4.7 packages in natty-backports didn't include kmail2. Perhaps oneiric should have done the same and saved kmail2 for 12.04. There could have been a kmail2 ppa for masochists who want to play with it.

Ahmen!