A tale of broken love to Kubuntu 11.10

[arochester]

Thus, Kubuntu 11.10 became unusable. At least for me. At least now.
It still remains in my heart as (almost) first love... But it won't remain on my hard disk.
The love is broken...A tale of broken love to Kubuntu 11.10 - http://linuxblog.darkduck.com/2011/10/tale-of-broken-love-to-kubuntu-1110.html

[darkduck]

Thanks for publishing the link here. :)

[dibl]

Well, it's too bad, but it's not an entirely objective critique, either.

- Grub as shipped with Kubuntu 11.10 works as advertised -- he can't blame Kubuntu for his little multi-boot fiasco

- the world is not full of Linux distributions that can set up wireless networking while installing with no internet connection

- what's wrong with gftp -- I've never seen it fail?

- chrome/chromium is irrelevant to anything about Kubuntu

[darkduck]

"He" is me. It's my post in my blog.
Let me answer point-by-point.


Well, it's too bad, but it's not an entirely objective critique, either.

- Grub as shipped with Kubuntu 11.10 works as advertised -- he can't blame Kubuntu for his little multi-boot fiasco

The fiasco was nothing to do with multiboot. It was about Kubuntu itself. It just stopped booting. Full stop.
GRUB's issue in Kubuntu is that it is installed without asking me if I want it or not. Same as in Ubuntu 11.10. This is not correct policy.


- the world is not full of Linux distributions that can set up wireless networking while installing with no internet connection

Did I write that there was no Internet connection during installation? No. I booted into Live session, then connected to network with Internet and only after that I installed the system. So, installer had enough details to configure connection for future runs. It did not.
Similar situation with Mageia - connection was configured. Nice bonus, isn't it? Especially if you don't remember the passcode for your router and need to search for it every time you need to configure the network.


- what's wrong with gftp -- I've never seen it fail?

If I knew... There were no messages in dmesg about it.
I am (and was) very positive about Kubuntu, and I was ready to solve the error. But it was not shown to me.


- chrome/chromium is irrelevant to anything about Kubuntu

Probably. But that's not a critical issue. Chromium is as good as Chrome for me now. I wrote about Chrome only because I faced this issue, and to let other people know they can have one. And how to solve (install Chromium).

[dibl]

Hi darkduck -- I forgot you were a member of this forum, too. :-[

I would assume, as in all prior releases where I have set it up in multi-boot fashion that if, during installation, you would install Grub to the root of the Kubuntu partition, and then in your "primary" OS run update-grub, that the primary grub configuration will find the Kubuntu grub installation and chainload it. It should not be necessary, and is not normally advisable, to edit the grub.cfg file to enable the primary grub to find the secondary OS. But I admit I have zero experience with Mageia so I don't know about its grub configuration, and I don't have time to run that experiment today.

I must also concede that the installer has never been Kubuntu's (or any *buntu's) strongest point. But by using the Alternate Install CD, I've always had better success. I can't say whether the Alternate installer will retain "knowledge" of a network connection made prior to starting installation -- I kind of doubt it. If Mageia's installer can do that, then that is indeed an exceptional feature, in my experience. I've always connected an ethernet cable, if possible, prior to installing -- a wireless drop-out during installation could be fatal, depending on what is going on when it drops.

gftp is an old gtk-based FTP client, so when you install it it does pull in some gtk packages. But has always been rock solid, and on the other hand, I've never heard any glowing reports about a KDE FTP client.

[woodsmoke]

Hi darkduck

I read your blog with interest, as I do just about all of your writings.

But, .... ;D

I just don't know.

Anybody that knows anything of my history is somewhat aware that I have always "just been a hardware kinda guy"...I don't know from 'nuttin about all this "Linuxy stuff"...

The point of the above is that I started out my Linux days installing on all of the "worst" hardware that I could find. We used to even have threads on "how low can you go" in terms of memory, hard drive size, you name it.

And, I have donated well into a hundred and fifty machines of questionable lineage because I assembled them from donated "junque" ;D .

But the point of this rather rambling note is that I just have not had a "problem" of ANY kind with just about any distro for the last few years...now there is always Arch or #! or DSL or something, but aside from the early versions of plasma desktop crashing, I just don't have a problem.

The wireless always works on first boot and is remembered. I've not had any distro fail to install in terms of "the steps of the installer" except for the one that is a stripped down thing that has nothing that is not free on it..don't remember the name.

I've installed multiple distros in GRUB alongside Vista professional and have dual booted so many times with XP that it got boring and now I just use seperate hard drives.

I've dual booted, single installed etc. on multiple versions of laptops and only remember a problem with Knoppix a few iterations ago.

Again, the wireless for many distros works right out of the box and is always remembered. Now, quite often there is a problem with signal strength of the hardware but I just can't remember a time in the last few years that wireless has given a problem with ANY distro , again, with the exception of the distros that specialize in shipping without any "non-free" stuff.

So.... again, I see your point in that you had all those problems but, it is also worthy of note the very FEW people who come to the forum to report a problem.

Just don't know....it is a puzzle.

woodsmoke

[darkduck]

Hi darkduck -- I forgot you were a member of this forum, too. :-[

I would assume, as in all prior releases where I have set it up in multi-boot fashion that if, during installation, you would install Grub to the root of the Kubuntu partition, and then in your "primary" OS run update-grub, that the primary grub configuration will find the Kubuntu grub installation and chainload it. It should not be necessary, and is not normally advisable, to edit the grub.cfg file to enable the primary grub to find the secondary OS. But I admit I have zero experience with Mageia so I don't know about its grub configuration, and I don't have time to run that experiment today.
The issue with Debian-sourced GRUB2 vs Mageia (Mandriva, PCLOS) is that update-grub puts incorrect partition notation in menu item configuration.
In one part it says (hd0,msdos6), in another (hd0,6) or something like this. Second notation is not recognised and it brings system to a kernel panic. That's why I edit my grub.cfg after each update-grub to bring things fixed.
There is another solution described here (http://almostconnecticut.net/linuxismylife/2011/07/mageia-the-return-of-the-girl-next-door/), but I prefer my route.

[Teunis]

A strange problem you had with grub2.
On this laptop I have Vista business and XPpro dual booting through BCD and this is automagically picked up by grub2 what was installed as part of the 2 versions of Kubuntu that are also installed.
So in all there are 4 OS'es booting without any issues or need for manual intervention.

[darkduck]

A strange problem you had with grub2.
On this laptop I have Vista business and XPpro dual booting through BCD and this is automagically picked up by grub2 what was installed as part of the 2 versions of Kubuntu that are also installed.
So in all there are 4 OS'es booting without any issues or need for manual intervention.

As I mentioned, the issue is with Mandriva and its forks (Mageia, PCLOS) which use GRUB, not GRUB2.
Same GRUB2 from Debian/(K)Ubuntu correctly picks(-ed) up XP, Mint XFCE, Salix XFCE.
But my favourite Mageia is pain in the 5th point.

[dibl]

I have had good luck with grub2 in making USB sticks, with ISO images, such as Parted Magic. I would advise setting up whatever the Debian or Debian derivative OS is, as the primary OS, and then installing Mageia and let Grub 2 find it and set it up in the boot menu.

[darkduck]

I have had good luck with grub2 in making USB sticks, with ISO images, such as Parted Magic. I would advise setting up whatever the Debian or Debian derivative OS is, as the primary OS, and then installing Mageia and let Grub 2 find it and set it up in the boot menu.


That's what I have done. Debian is my primary system to hold GRUB2.
And exactly because of that I was surprised when both Ubuntu and Kubuntu made their own decision about who wants to be millionaire hold the GRUB2.

I am now at my laptop (and in Mageia), and I can write exactly what Debian puts into grub.cfg:

set root='(hd0,msdos6)'
...
initrd (hd0,5)/boot/initrd.img

Do you see difference in partition notation?
I fix it to be like this:

set root='(hd0,msdos6)'
initrd (hd0,msdos6)/boot/initrd.img

[vinnywright]

I have had good luck with grub2 in making USB sticks, with ISO images, such as Parted Magic. I would advise setting up whatever the Debian or Debian derivative OS is, as the primary OS, and then installing Mageia and let Grub 2 find it and set it up in the boot menu.


That's what I have done. Debian is my primary system to hold GRUB2.
And exactly because of that I was surprised when both Ubuntu and Kubuntu made their own decision about who wants to be millionaire hold the GRUB2. are you referring
to the fact that the option to NOT install grub has been removed?
If so that made me mad as well;however, you can just install it to the install partition and leave whoever's boot loader in charge .



I am now at my laptop (and in Mageia), and I can write exactly what Debian puts into grub.cfg:

set root='(hd0,msdos6)'
...
initrd (hd0,5)/boot/initrd.img

Do you see difference in partition notation?
I fix it to be like this:

set root='(hd0,msdos6)'
initrd (hd0,msdos6)/boot/initrd.img


strange that looks way diferent from mine on Kubuntu11.10 ?
My "set root=" looks the same but a "initrd" line uses a UUID and the exact initrd name ....that "/boot/initrd.img" looks like the system link in / ?



I have had good luck with grub2 in making USB sticks, with ISO images, such as Parted Magic.
? you can make a USB stick with ISO images with Grub2?
VINNY

[bsniadajewski]

What does the GRUB in Mageia say? The GRUB2 usually picks up what is written in the other OSes bootlader (in this case Mageia's GRUB Legacy) and uses that for chainloading.

[darkduck]

I have had good luck with grub2 in making USB sticks, with ISO images, such as Parted Magic. I would advise setting up whatever the Debian or Debian derivative OS is, as the primary OS, and then installing Mageia and let Grub 2 find it and set it up in the boot menu.


That's what I have done. Debian is my primary system to hold GRUB2.
And exactly because of that I was surprised when both Ubuntu and Kubuntu made their own decision about who wants to be millionaire hold the GRUB2. are you referring
to the fact that the option to NOT install grub has been removed?
If so that made me mad as well;however, you can just install it to the install partition and leave whoever's boot loader in charge .

VINNY

Yes, option NOT to install GRUB is absent.
Chainloader is not the best option... it goes through several menus in this case.

[darkduck]

What does the GRUB in Mageia say? The GRUB2 usually picks up what is written in the other OSes bootlader (in this case Mageia's GRUB Legacy) and uses that for chainloading.


title Mageia (on /dev/sda6)
kernel (hd0,5)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=Mageia_(on_/dev/sda6) root=/dev/sda6 resume=UUID=0fbf2e2e-9ca4-4959-9396-d6c6e7b44495
initrd (hd0,5)/boot/initrd.img

[bsniadajewski]

I should admit that when I tried Mageia some time ago, Iran into the same problem concerning GRUB. I also installed Mageia's GRUB to its partition on another HDD, and used Kubuntu's GRUB for the chain-loading. I, obviously, had to change the grub.cfg to fix this little... mix-up. I'll tell ya, next time I try Mageia or PCLOS, I'll use /etc/grub.d/40_custom.

BTW, darkduck, did you try changing all the (hd0, 5)'s to (hd0, msdos6)'s and see if that did the trick?

[darkduck]

BTW, darkduck, did you try changing all the (hd0, 5)'s to (hd0, msdos6)'s and see if that did the trick?

That's what I regularly do in my Debian's grub.cfg file.

[bsniadajewski]

Why not in Mageia's grub.cfg equivalent ( Iforget what it was), and see if Debian's GRUB picks it up?

[darkduck]

Why not in Mageia's grub.cfg equivalent ( Iforget what it was), and see if Debian's GRUB picks it up?

I vaguely remember I tried it, but without much success.

[vinnywright]

update-grub will read from the grub.cfg or menu.lst of the OS it finds if avalable (one could maby rename the file to keep it from being read) or if Mageia will give you the option not to install grub then it wont be thare to read.

the problem is arising from the different HD/partition naming conventions betwen grub and grub2

grub will use (hd0,0) as first HD first partition wile grub2 will use (hd0,msdos1) and if reading the menu.lst of a grub install that lists in the way that Mageia's grub is listing will use the lines "linux & initrd " as riten in the menu.lst (witch will be incorect for grub2) wile using it's own "set root="

1 Q- IS the file in Mageia's /boot/initrd.img the real initrd.img or a system link to the real file?
not that it matters just curious :) ......buntus will put the system link in / but dont realey use it any more as grub2 will use the exact path !!

PS: one shouldent eddit the grub.cfg directly you can add the corect menu entry to /etc/grub.d/40_custom and run update-grub to get it sorted.

VINNY

[darkduck]

1 Q- IS the file in Mageia's /boot/initrd.img the real initrd.img or a system link to the real file?
not that it matters just curious :) ......buntus will put the system link in / but dont realey use it any more as grub2 will use the exact path !!
it's a link I think. It does not change during kernel update. I think Mageia simply updates the link, but GRUB uses same all the time.
I don't remember exactly, but looks like link to actual initrd is in menu.lst too, and it is fallback one for previous kernel version.


PS: one shouldent eddit the grub.cfg directly you can add the corect menu entry to /etc/grub.d/40_custom and run update-grub to get it sorted.

I know that's right solution, but I am too lazy for this. )))

[bsniadajewski]

1 Q- IS the file in Mageia's /boot/initrd.img the real initrd.img or a system link to the real file?
not that it matters just curious :) ......buntus will put the system link in / but dont realey use it any more as grub2 will use the exact path !!
it's a link I think. It does not change during kernel update. I think Mageia simply updates the link, but GRUB uses same all the time.
I don't remember exactly, but looks like link to actual initrd is in menu.lst too, and it is fallback one for previous kernel version.


PS: one shouldent eddit the grub.cfg directly you can add the corect menu entry to /etc/grub.d/40_custom and run update-grub to get it sorted.

I know that's right solution, but I am too lazy for this. )))


It would plenty easier then to just use /etc/grub.d/40_custom since Mageia simply has a link. THerefore you just set up the entry to point to the link and forget it, you should always be able to boot into Mageia in case of any kernel updates in Mageia or Debian (or Kubuntu if you want to try it again).