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    [KDE] Neon vs. Kubuntu, two observations

    A few months ago I installed Neon as a second Linux, the other one I had for daily use was Kubuntu 17.10.
    Strange enough Grub did and doesn't recognise the 17.10 partition(s) and due to lack of time I just started using Neon and am quite happy with it.
    (Running a grub repair did not bring back the 17.10 boot option, the Win7 install is still a grub option)

    Now I ran into a Neon oddity, I needed to rip a CD and noticed Neon only offers to play it, Dolphin does not show the tracks as Kubuntu's Dolphin always does.
    Running a live Kubuntu USB gave a temporary solution to get the rip.

    This week I should have some time (since a year I'm a pensioner) and will try to install 19.04 on the 17.10 partitions and hope it will not disable access to Neon.

    Any insights?

    #2
    Neon, is a very barebones non-distro - Nothing But Stock Plasma, so it is lacking the extra encoding utilities etc that Kubuntu adds that are needed for this.

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      #3
      Also, go with 19.10, as 19.04 will be EOL in a matter of days now.

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        #4
        January 23, 2020. Or be a bit more patient and wait for 20.04!
        Kubuntu 20.04

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          #5
          Originally posted by claydoh View Post
          Also, go with 19.10, as 19.04 will be EOL in a matter of days now.
          Teunis, I too installed Neon, followed by Kubuntu 19.10 on another partition. I also have Windows 10 running on this machine and after enabling "Legacy Boot" in BIOS, everything went smoothly. The GRUB menu lists all three and editing was not required. (BTW, I'm also a pensioner and after 20 years on the bench, I love retirement. Hope you do too.)

          Mick

          P. S. Loose association and a random thought ... one of the reasons that I remained faithful to KDE for many years is because of K3b. Being old school, I still burn CD/DVDs while younger colleagues are using USB flash drives. K3b is the best burning software I've found and never have been able to give it up. Now that KDE is so good, I can't imagine going anywhere else.
          Last edited by mick.kde; Jan 14, 2020, 09:44 AM.
          "Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas."
          Hunter S. Thompson

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            #6
            My BIOS should be OK, I've used it for dual booting since I bought this Thinkpad nearly nine years ago but will have a look anyway.
            Good point, I should install 20.04, I don't mind a little breakage and tinkering

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              #7
              I have 20.04 on two machines, and it really looks rock-solid.

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                #8
                Originally posted by mick.kde View Post
                ..
                P. S... Loose association and a random thought ... one of the reasons that I remained faithful to KDE for many years is because of K3b. Being old school, I still burn CD/DVDs while younger colleagues are using USB flash drives. K3b is the best burning software I've found and never have been able to give it up. Now that KDE is so good, I can't imagine going anywhere else.
                I, too, loved K3b (KDE Burn Baby Burn). But the limitation of 4.7 GB moved me to USB sticks. In fact, I took out my CDROM drive and replaced it with a HD Caddy, which now holds my 2nd SSD. I bought a $15 USB CDROM drive from Amazon for those rare occasions in which my wife might want me to burn something for one of her relatives. Right now I am looking at a dozen or so R/W CDs and 120 or so CD-R CDs. The R/W's I've had for over 10 years. I used them for special recordings because they last MUCH longer than the CD-R's. In my garage is a cabinet containing over 200 CD's in crystal cases containing installation software and backups of all my stuff between the years 1998 and 2010. Around 2015 I hauled them up to my office and ran them through the CDROM to see which could still be read. All the R/W's were readable but only about 65% of the CD-R's were readable. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if only the R/W's are readable and less than 10% of the CD-R's.

                Now, one can get a 256GB SD chip for around $20 - $40, so even USB sticks are facing competition. The USB sticks, however, are getting exceptionally big for under $100. Think 1TB. Probably slow, but its not s device you'd run your system from.
                "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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                  #9
                  I am using KDE neon on a Mac mini (thus I also use an USB DVD drive) and have had no issues burning a CD/DVD. Like claydoh stated, you will need the proper packages installed to do so. I thought k3b used to state what packages were missing if you go into the configuration (or try to burn a CD).

                  My current use case is much like GreyGeek's (as in most everything I do now days is with USB sticks), but I do burn CDs for my aging stereo unit (with 25 CD changer) in the living room.
                  Nowadays I'm mostly Mac, but...
                  tron: KDE neon User | MacPro5,1 | 3.2GHz Xeon | 48GB RAM | 250GB, 1TB, & 500GB Samsung SSDs | Nvidia GTX 980 Ti

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
                    I, too, loved K3b (KDE Burn Baby Burn)... Right now I am looking at a dozen or so R/W CDs and 120 or so CD-R CDs. The R/W's I've had for over 10 years. I used them for special recordings because they last MUCH longer than the CD-R's. In my garage is a cabinet containing over 200 CD's in crystal cases containing installation software and backups of all my stuff between the years 1998 and 2010. Around 2015 I hauled them up to my office and ran them through the CDROM to see which could still be read. All the R/W's were readable but only about 65% of the CD-R's were readable. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if only the R/W's are readable and less than 10% of the CD-R's.
                    Back when I was still having to work for a living, I remember the head of our IT department telling management about the short shelf-life of CDs, which was something of a surprise. That was at least ten years ago and my agency was storing mission-critical information on CDs. A working group was formed to explore alternatives. Subsequently, I retired and to this day have no idea (nor do I care) what course of action was eventually adopted by the agency. (Administration changes will do that to you.) Personally, though, I have dozens of CD-Rs with music, photos and old software that I would like to preserve. I need to devise my own course of action.

                    Thank you for reminding me, GreyGeek.
                    "Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas."
                    Hunter S. Thompson

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mick.kde View Post
                      Back when I was still having to work for a living, I remember the head of our IT department telling management about the short shelf-life of CDs, which was something of a surprise. That was at least ten years ago and my agency was storing mission-critical information on CDs. A working group was formed to explore alternatives. Subsequently, I retired and to this day have no idea (nor do I care) what course of action was eventually adopted by the agency. (Administration changes will do that to you.) Personally, though, I have dozens of CD-Rs with music, photos and old software that I would like to preserve. I need to devise my own course of action. .
                      IMO there is somewhat of a difference here, mission-wise. Bit rot has less potential to damage an audio file or pic to the point of making them unusable vs. an important datafile. Also worth noting the longevity of the medium vs. the likelihood of any actual degradation when factored over the life-span of the individual wanting the data.

                      The key words in the above being "mission critical", to put it bluntly; an agency or business may have an interest in preserving records for many decades or even centuries while the photos of my wedding and the music I listen to will just become another item in the landfill when I die. Old software is of even less value in most cases as the systems capable of running it will disappear long before the CD fails. Just my opinion of course.

                      Please Read Me

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                        #12
                        Add this to my comments: https://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4/

                        Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that, under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25 years or more.
                        I doubt either of us will live another 100 years. At least I sure don't want too!

                        Please Read Me

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post

                          The key words in the above being "mission critical", to put it bluntly; an agency or business may have an interest in preserving records for many decades or even centuries while the photos of my wedding and the music I listen to will just become another item in the landfill when I die. Old software is of even less value in most cases as the systems capable of running it will disappear long before the CD fails. Just my opinion of course.
                          Oh the joys of VMing (or emulation if there isn't a VM alternative). Able to keep things going longer. Although sometimes it takes some creativity. I actually have to run a VM within a VM to get all of the features one expects even within a VM as that second OS isn't supported directly by VB.

                          As to optical media. I just use a disc authoring software and burn it as an ISO. Or make sure if you are using some type of archiving software that it is told not to truncate file names. Especially if it's software backup or anything that depends on full paths. Most OSs will mount those as virtual optical drives nowadays and they are far more portable then the original optical media.
                          Lenovo Thinkstation: Xeon E5 CPU 32GB ECC Ram KDE Neon

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by oshunluvr View Post
                            Add this to my comments: https://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4/



                            I doubt either of us will live another 100 years. At least I sure don't want too!
                            I think the longivity of a CD depends on the quality of disks that you buy. I always bought CD-R's that were sold in a tube of 100 disks for about $20, +- $5. Elsewhere in this forum I posted my experience in testing the readibility of the 200+ CDs I have stored in the garage. After 5 years about 1/3rd of them would not read. I could recover a few using toothpaste or bananas but most were gone. The expensive RW DVD's after 5 years were still perfect. After 10 years half of the CD's were bad, but all of the RW DVDs were still good. I purchased a $15 USB CDROM about 5 years ago and pulled the CDROM from my laptop and replaced it with an HDCaddy, which holds my 750GB WD spinner. In 5 years I may have burned no more than 6 CDs, so I still have about 125 +-10 in the cabinet above me. They'll probably degrade due to light exposure before I ever use them.

                            jlittle is right. For most CDs containing music and photos NO ONE will notice the bit rot that takes place over 5 years, but if a similar amount of rot took place on a CD containing the backup of a DB, it will render the DB data useless unless it contains two dimensional parity checks.

                            The closer to the atomic level our data storage mediums become the more likely they will suffer bit rot due to thermal and photogenic degradation. Using nuclear or electron spin orientation will insure bit rot due to quantum effects. One cannot defeat the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
                            "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                            – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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