Cantata

[vinnywright]

IOW, the opinion of those who have vested experience and interest in Kubuntu means more than those who have not.

their is wisdom in this thought !

VINNY

[claydoh]

https://www.facebook.com/linuxkubuntu/

But I do believe that this is the proper official FB page for Kubuntu: https://www.facebook.com/kubuntu.org/

I stopped participating much there due to the number of jerks I came across, plus I hate facebook, generally speaking.
Facebook and have lots of gab but little actual action, in regards to distro participation. ie the people doing the work and testing and other things that help things along are not doing those things on either of those platforms.

[claydoh]

Mailing lists and forums like this might not be the best place for opinion surveys, but they are better than places that express little or no interest in Kubuntu or Linux. Without using Linux or Kubuntu opinions about them are at best uninformed and at worst useless.

While only 17 have read this thread there are almost 15,000 registered users of this forum, and that number has the same meaning as your 11,000 Facebook followers number, which doesn't mean that they are recent or active. Depending on what cutoff date and distro activity period you use, as many as a 1,000 members are active at any given time. Some haven't been active in years, and I'd wager that the most of the Facebook "followers" are in the same category. I've been here for eight years, since January of 2009, but some have been active here from the beginning.

If you want to gather meaningful, experienced opinions about Kubuntu or Neon then this forum is probably your best place. If you want an opinion on Ubuntu or Mint then their forums are probably the best place to visit. IOW, the opinion of those who have vested experience and interest in Kubuntu means more than those who have not.

+100001 !
Also, forums and mailing lists, and even irc provide a more permanent record, as archives of discussion which we can go back to as needed.

[Batty]

I've never seen Cantata before, I followed the instruction to "select the 'basic single user setup' in the first run wizard", pointed at my music folder,it worked fine.
I like the appearance, picking albums to play from pictures is simple.

[clivejo]

There are lots of music players out there, all with pro's and con's. One of the great things in the Open Source community is that there is never a one size fits all, but we have the freedom to use whatever software we are comfortable with using and if we don't like it we can step up and change things.

From the feedback from users and great debate on the development/release team we chose to go with cantata for this release. But just because it is installed by default does not mean you have to use it, you are indeed encouraged to install what ever software you like and want to use, it is your system.

If you want to get involved with Kubuntu, you can:

Join the Kubuntu Developers Mailing list - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
See and discuss current tasks - https://kubuntu.org/tasks
Talk directly to the Development and Release Team on IRC - http://webchat.freenode.net?channels=%23kubuntu-devel

[Bings]

Mailing lists and forums like this might not be the best place for opinion surveys, but they are better than places that express little or no interest in Kubuntu or Linux. Without using Linux or Kubuntu opinions about them are at best uninformed and at worst useless.

While only 17 have read this thread there are almost 15,000 registered users of this forum, and that number has the same meaning as your 11,000 Facebook followers number, which doesn't mean that they are recent or active. Depending on what cutoff date and distro activity period you use, as many as a 1,000 members are active at any given time. Some haven't been active in years, and I'd wager that the most of the Facebook "followers" are in the same category. I've been here for eight years, since January of 2009, but some have been active here from the beginning.

If you want to gather meaningful, experienced opinions about Kubuntu or Neon then this forum is probably your best place. If you want an opinion on Ubuntu or Mint then their forums are probably the best place to visit. IOW, the opinion of those who have vested experience and interest in Kubuntu means more than those who have not.

It's not me who made this claim that some sort of pre-research had been done to what people wanted. It hasn't. As claydoh says, forums and mailing lists leave a permanent record so it was quite easy to search this forum and the mailing list to see that that Cantata was not decided as a result of discussion on either of these things. If people want to run it as a small group making top down decisions then fine but it seems like blowing smoke up my proverbial to claim that anyone's opinion was sought. If it was, then it is not easy to find.

I can't stand social media, I hate the concept and the implementation, but that's where people are. You posted a video the other week where a guy was saying a good way to get people using linux based systems was to use cross platform software that met people needs, so people would get used to using the applications. The only way to find this out is by talking to people not relying on the narrow opinions of the chosen few. Clementine is a popular cross platform application that can link into spotify, google drive and other such cloud things. Cantata only has the dying soundcloud and the rip off magnatune. More people have commented and interacted with clementine's social media than ever have with either of the kubuntu pages.

[clivejo]

You posted a video the other week where a guy was saying a good way to get people using linux based systems was to use cross platform software that met people needs, so people would get used to using the applications. The only way to find this out is by talking to people not relying on the narrow opinions of the chosen few. Clementine is a popular cross platform application that can link into spotify, google drive and other such cloud things. Cantata only has the dying soundcloud and the rip off magnatune. More people have commented and interacted with clementine's social media than ever have with either of the kubuntu pages.

That is all great and good, but there hasn't been a release of Clementine since April 2016 and is based on Qt4. If we provide a Qt4 application on our iso, we increase it's size as we have to ship all the Qt4 stack that it requires to run, this is something we are working towards totally removing for the next release 18.04. As pointed out, noone is stopping you from installing it yourself as your preferred music app.

You also pointed out that there is work on porting clementine to Qt5, but to date there has not been a release of this port and therefore can't be included in Artful. As amarok is in the same position, this is why the decision to remove it from the iso had to be made.

[Mountain Man]

This is a Music Player Daemon frontend, so configuration & usage may be unfamiliar. Most users will want to select the 'basic single user setup' in the first run wizard.

Having a default app that needs this caveat in the release notes seems a bit odd. There are plenty of better music apps than this Cantata, which seems gears to people with a separate music server? There are plenty of better music apps, so why this?

A single user set-up in Cantata is as as easy as it is in any other player like Amarok or Clementine: simply point the software to your music directory, and you're done.

Where it gets tricky is if you want to use a remote server in some fashion, for instance, you want to stream music from your computer to your Android phone. That's where I'm getting hung-up, but just playing music locally from my Linux box? It literally couldn't be easier.

[Bings]

That is all great and good, but there hasn't been a release of Clementine since April 2016 and is based on Qt4. If we provide a Qt4 application on our iso, we increase it's size as we have to ship all the Qt4 stack that it requires to run, this is something we are working towards totally removing for the next release 18.04. As pointed out, noone is stopping you from installing it yourself as your preferred music app.

Out of interest, if Clementine had been the default player for 17.10 how much would that of increased the ISO size?

Noone is stopping me from installing what I want no but having a poor default media player might stop other people from installing Kubuntu.

[Teunis]

First a bit of an OT rant:

Once you've given your soul to Facebook, yeah then why not start a Kubuntu group.
For those appreciating a grain of privacy Facebook is a no-go area.

Then about media or music players, I am generally happy with SMPlayer and it's 'add to playlist' in Dolphin.
But based on this thread I just tried Cantata and must say it is reasonably easy.
At least it accepts my directory and file structure without rearranging it.

During the set up and configuration the supplied file manager is horrible.
If this is supposed to be a KDE specific player I wonder why it is not using the excellent Dolphin/Konqueror layout.

[clivejo]

Out of interest, if Clementine had been the default player for 17.10 how much would that of increased the ISO size?

Noone is stopping me from installing what I want no but having a poor default media player might stop other people from installing Kubuntu.

I don't have the figures to hand, but you need a lot of Qt4 libraries and stack to make it work. Both Debian and Ubuntu are moving away from Qt4 and therefore we want to remove anything Qt4 off the iso, this includes amarok (our previous default). KDE themselves are also removing any KDE4 apps from their supported software and as Kubuntu developer this is my main priority (packaging and providing KDE software on Ubuntu)

No offence but this is your opinion on it. There have been a lot of positive comments on Cantata, all over social media. I personally just use VLC as media player(music, videos etc) so I will remove any defaults installed on my system. I also built clementine qt5 branch from git and I am not impressed with it (my own personal opinion). If you are interested in testing the Qt5 port, you can find it here - https://launchpad.net/~clivejo/+arch...ntu/clementine

[vinnywright]

OK ,,,so cantata is growing on me ,,,,,it dose work nice as a music/Internet radio player,,,,,,

BUT still QMplay2 is far better as a player , it dose your music collection + video + Internet radio + youtube with youtube searching and downloading , it has an EQ + the hole interface is a collection of individual widgets that can be dragged apart and placed in different areas of the screen or separate screens .

So I like to drag the video output to the TV and then separate the EQ , play list , media info and youtube browser on the laptop and control it all from their

and sense it's QT it can be built for qt5 ,,the maintainer just doesn't do qt5 builds for .deb ,,,yet but dose give instruction for it .

VINNY

[Bings]

I don't have the figures to hand, but you need a lot of Qt4 libraries and stack to make it work. Both Debian and Ubuntu are moving away from Qt4 and therefore we want to remove anything Qt4 off the iso, this includes amarok (our previous default). KDE themselves are also removing any KDE4 apps from their supported software and as Kubuntu developer this is my main priority (packaging and providing KDE software on Ubuntu)

No offence but this is your opinion on it. There have been a lot of positive comments on Cantata, all over social media. I personally just use VLC as media player(music, videos etc) so I will remove any defaults installed on my system. I also built clementine qt5 branch from git and I am not impressed with it (my own personal opinion). If you are interested in testing the Qt5 port, you can find it here - https://launchpad.net/~clivejo/+arch...ntu/clementine

That something has less features and users is not a matter of opinion. The release notes say "Please test this change" I have, it's a negative change. Obviously my opinion is better than these social media ones because I'm on a forum.

I agree clementine qt5 is not that great at the moment.

OK ,,,so cantata is growing on me ,,,,,it dose work nice as a music/Internet radio player,,,,,,

BUT still QMplay2 is far better as a player , it dose your music collection + video + Internet radio + youtube with youtube searching and downloading , it has an EQ + the hole interface is a collection of individual widgets that can be dragged apart and placed in different areas of the screen or separate screens .

So I like to drag the video output to the TV and then separate the EQ , play list , media info and youtube browser on the laptop and control it all from their

and sense it's QT it can be built for qt5 ,,the maintainer just doesn't do qt5 builds for .deb ,,,yet but dose give instruction for it .

VINNY

That youtube plugin is great and internet radio layout is good. Is there a media library type view?

[clivejo]

That something has less features and users is not a matter of opinion. The release notes say "Please test this change" I have, it's a negative change. Obviously my opinion is better than these social media ones because I'm on a forum.

I agree clementine qt5 is not that great at the moment.

Fair enough, your opinion has been well and truly noted. We will be reviewing the defaults again during the Bionic Beaver 18.04 development cycle and will change it if an alternative (fitting the criteria) can be included in the main Ubuntu archive before feature freeze.

[dequire]

Perhaps Babe will be ready to rock by then...or the Plasma5 version of Amarok...