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**vinnywright** · May 15, 2016, 04:05 PM

what do you want to change the look of ?

VINNY

**elijathegold** · May 15, 2016, 05:19 PM

I have 16.04 on my second laptop looking exactly like 14.04 on my main one, albeit with one monitor and not three. On the basis that there is now an option to remove the desktop toolbar / cashew thing, I would suggest Plasma 5 is more configurable than Plasma 4. What I did find quite annoying is how many of the customisation options have moved around. For example:

Window decorations are no longer under System Settings -> Workspace Appearance -> Window Decorations but System Settings -> Application Style -> Window Decorations

~/.kde/share/apps/aurorae/themes is now ~/.local/share/aurorae/themes
~/,kde/-share/icons is now ~/.local/share/icons

Some of these changes make sense, others probably do to the people who came up with them. One thing I really miss is the Application Launcher (QML) plug-in as it hasn't been ported by the developer.

So, yeah, what ^ he said.

**Silent Observer** · May 15, 2016, 05:32 PM

Vinny, one thing I'd really like is for my application launchers in the task bar to stay where I put them, and to be positionable. Another is if I could reload the window decorations I'm used to -- I've been using Keramik since before I switched from MEPIS to Kubuntu, but even with the correct package installed (and yes, I found Window Decorations), there's no option to use Keramik -- instead, I'm stuck with a flat window frame.

This is some of the stuff that I found annoying with Windows -- people can't leave stuff alone. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" has been good advice for longer than the devs have been alive, but they still insist on following the software engineer's version: "If it ain't broke, keep fooling with it until it is."

I've also noted a problem with sporadic total lock-ups. I don't think they're the heat problems people usually suggest, because I don't have this problem in 14.04.4 -- but 16.04 will occasionally hard lock, no mouse cursor movement, no response to CTL-ALT-F1 or CTL-ALT-DEL, no hard disk activity (as there would normally be due to BOINC computations in progress saving their work) -- only the hard reset button will recover (via a reboot, of course).

**elijathegold** · May 15, 2016, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Silent Observer View Post

one thing I'd really like is for my application launchers in the task bar to stay where I put them, and to be positionable. Another is if I could reload the window decorations I'm used to -- I've been using Keramik since before I switched from MEPIS to Kubuntu, but even with the correct package installed (and yes, I found Window Decorations), there's no option to use Keramik -- instead, I'm stuck with a flat window frame.

This is some of the stuff that I found annoying with Windows -- people can't leave stuff alone. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" has been good advice for longer than the devs have been alive, but they still insist on following the software engineer's version: "If it ain't broke, keep fooling with it until it is."

I've also noted a problem with sporadic total lock-ups. I don't think they're the heat problems people usually suggest, because I don't have this problem in 14.04.4 -- but 16.04 will occasionally hard lock, no mouse cursor movement, no response to CTL-ALT-F1 or CTL-ALT-DEL, no hard disk activity (as there would normally be due to BOINC computations in progress saving their work) -- only the hard reset button will recover (via a reboot, of course).

I can drag and drop items on the task bar in 16.04 but admit to not having applications on there until they are running so I don't know if they would stay in place. There isn't an option as in 14.04 (that I can find) to turn it on or off.

As a professional programmer I can confirm that what the last guy did is rubbish and needs to be re-written, Also, he is to blame for everything.

If you get another lock up see if pressing and holding Alt + Prt Scr while slowly typing reisub is recognised. If it is you'll get a safe reboot, if not then the kernel itself has choked.

**oshunluvr** · May 15, 2016, 06:39 PM

Referring to the original post of "Silent Observer", you can choose what to upgrade or not to a point - in that you're not the developer so you're not in control of dependencies and such. Kubuntu developers are in control of what goes into each release and 16.04 uses plasma 5, not 4. So a direct answer to " Can I switch back to KDE4 on 16.04? " is obviously no. But you can choose to run 14.04, and therefore Plasma 4, as long as you like. Yes, linux is open to customization so go on and do it yourself. You can't really expect all the developers to do only what you want. Personally, I like the vastly increased speed and many of the other changes 16.04 brought but I'm eagerly waiting for new themes more to my liking and the random lock-ups are annoying. Just as when Plasma 4 brought the hideously boring and uninformative black-and-white theme to the systray. As soon as I figured out how, I switched back to the colored tray icons - which with Plasma 5 are back for the most part.

As you state you can't stand it when "people can't leave stuff alone" so I have to ask why did you upgrade in the first place?? Were you expecting the two years of development from 14.04 to 16.04 would lead to no visible changes or new bugs or new functionality?? I totally agree that not all changes are progress in my view, but I'm not a developer so I have little say in the matter. Seems to me you created your own problems by upgrading when what you really want is no changes.

As far as the rest of your complaints and observations, my opinion is this: Some of them fall under "bugs" like the lock-ups. Some are lack of development like themes (dimensional instead of flat decorations). Both of which will improve and expand with time. The choice ahead of you is to adapt to what the developers are doing or stick with Plasma 4 until you cannot.

**GreyGeek** · May 15, 2016, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Silent Observer View Post

As a recent upgrader from Kubuntu 14.04.4 to Kubuntu 16.04, I've noticed that much of what I liked about Plasma 4 is just plain gone in Plasma 5. ....

Me too. I even left Kubuntu for Mint 17.3 KDE (which is also Plasma4) for a couple months to see if things were any different it than with Kubuntu, and to try Gnome, Cinnamon, and XFCE4. While I have nothing against those other DE's I decided that I liked KDE better, Plasma4 or Plasma5. Also, the btrfs implementation in Kubuntu was superior to Mint's, which has to be added on the LiveUSB/CD prior to installing, and their root subvolume paradigm is different. So, I decided to return to Kubuntu, install 16.04, and modify it as much as possible to the look & feel of Plasma4. It turns out that most of the apps running under Plasma5 look just like they do under Plasma4, with the default themes, which I used. The only difference is the flat, pastel look of the task bar and system tray. However, when I installed the QuickLauncher on the task bar and added some apps their icons were NOT flat pastels, but the gorgeous colors of Plasma4. The HP icon is the system tray is in beautiful color, even if the KGear, clipboard, printer, speaker and network icons look like drawings on a flat gray panel and not active links to functions and apps. The file manager, Dolphin, doesn't have that beautiful icon that it has in Plasma4, but at least it is not flat and gray.

Originally posted by Silent Observer View Post

Do I have a choice? Can I switch back to KDE4 on 16.04? I installed xfce while working on getting 16.04 to run -- if I boot into that interface, I could uninstall KDE, although it seems to me I did that with another distro once and wound up having to reinstall from scratch; it removed huge chunks of the system due to dependencies. But, assuming that doesn't completely hose the system, would it then be possible to install Plasma 4 from repos?

The best way to roll back to KDE4 on 14.04.4 is with a fresh install from its ISO. Or, switch to Mint 17.3 KDE. Either way, however, the End Of Life for 14.04 is 2019, so that gives you about three more years with KDE4 and after that support ceases. That assumes, of course, that Canonical and Ubuntu will still be functioning and Shuttlesworth hasn't decided to cut his losses and run. In 2019 it will be either Plasma5 or switching to a different Desktop Environment.

In the 16.04 repository I counted nearly a dozen different DE's available for installation. I cannot say if after installing one that trying to uninstall it may or may not crash your system, but reinstalling the plasma5 DE should repair any changes. Since I prefer the btrfs I can make root and home PRE snapshots, install the DE, make root and home POST snapshots, and if I decide to remove that DE I can use snapper's "undochange n .. m", where n and m are the PRE and POST snapshot numbers, then delete snapshot m. Life is slick with butter!

**Silent Observer** · May 16, 2016, 03:23 AM

I'm not very interested in clean installing anything -- I don't have the free time to spend a weekend at that just to find out if I like a system. The interface isn't the primary issue, anyway -- the random lockups and inability to have stuff stay where I put it are big problems.

As it happens, I still have a working 14.04, having had the foresight to clone the OS partition before upgrading. I'm getting a little bleed-over from 16.04 to 14.04, because I have a separate /home partition and used the same username in both -- but if I abandon 16.04 I presume I can adjust settings in 14.04 and undo the minor changes.

Bottom line here seems to be that everyone is expected to work the way devs and testers do -- install everything clean, either on a quarantine machine or in a VM (under what stable-forever OS does one set up the VMs?) -- and never expect anything to keep working or keep a stable interface for more than a couple years. That's great if you somehow making your living or are willing spend 100% of your free time poking at the OS, enforcing your tastes and ideas of what works on everyone who's just trying not to let Microsoft do the same to them -- or trying to get around that from the other folks. Suggestions above to fell free to (boils down to) make my own distro I take as facetious -- if I knew how to do that, I wouldn't be on here asking how to get 16.04 to run after upgrading.

And in about ten minutes, someone will be by asking why I'd possibly not want to be using the latest/greatest version of the OS -- to which I reply that I don't really enjoy bleeding, and don't find it good use of my time to spend a couple years learning the ins and outs of a system (even to the limited level I do), starting fresh every couple years.

IMO, Windows XP Classic had the best interface I've ever used. KDE/Plasma4 is very good, good enough I could happily keep using it for the foreseeable future -- but apparently that option isn't on the table. Even if I stick with 14.04 until end of life, I'll then have to clean-install vs. upgrading to 16.04 in order to be able to upgrade to 18.04 (assuming Ubuntu is even still supported by 2019) -- and I'll have to learn a new interface with even bigger changes than this one.

I hate Windows, but at least they've finally decided it's a mature product and they won't have to do massive changes to the OS every couple years for the rest of eternity.

**elijathegold** · May 16, 2016, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by Silent Observer View Post

I hate Windows, but at least they've finally decided it's a mature product and they won't have to do massive changes to the OS every couple years for the rest of eternity.

Yeah because nothing changed with Windows 8 and then again with Windows 10. Which sarcastic comment makes me consider that wanting to run Plasma 4 on Kubuntu 16.04 is like wanting to run the XP desktop on Windows 8, I am sure Microsoft would be happy help you with that if you ask them nicely. Please note that I'm not comparing the quality of Kubuntu 16.04 with Windows 8.

If you absolutely must have Plasma 4 on Kubuntu 16.04, you could always try grabbing the source code and compiling it yourself, although I would recommend trying that on virtual machine.

**Qqmike** · May 16, 2016, 05:38 AM

Hey Silent Observer, you aren't very silent! Just kidding. Yeah, these OS changes with major DE changes is a tough one. I liked KDE3, and I like what I have in 14.04 now. I'll keep 14.04 at least another year or two. I can't really read all the posts around here about what's going on with Plasma 5 and such (my time is limited lately because of work, I mean I do my art

), but the main thing concerning me is this FLAT look I see you guys referring to everywhere! I hope the fix for that will be a simple open-Settings-navigate-to-this-and-CLICK something. Thinking I should install 16.04 dual-boot maybe in a few months just to see and get ready.

**woodsmoke** · May 16, 2016, 12:19 PM

It would (wood, snicker) seem from reading the thread that there really are two parts to the discussion, as tangentially mentioned by another poster,
a) the hardware / operational stuff
b) appearance

A) the hardware / operational stuff will be fixed as bugfixes are posted and, a lot of the situation is upstream stuff that, again posted elsewhere, a lot of packages are moving around and it will take time to fix them.

B) appearance, this has been a common complaint and one which I posted, mildly, myself.

It isn't that devs "have to do something" with appearance it is that, ............well...........things change...... hardware changes,

the "mood and temperament" of the community changes, to stupidly paraphrase an "axiom" that appears probably a hundred times a day in fora and blogs: the only constant is change.

The proof in the pudding will be if "enough" people raise a hue and cry about the metro look and whether "enough" artwork people want to.......

..........DO THE INCREDIBLY TEDIOUS and HUGE amount of artwork that is necessary to actually make a "glossy" or whatever, theme.

See this example, it used to be a webpage ......which I have actually DONE, making a website for a friend a LONG time ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecs0yk4Vasw

So, the situation is that even with the huge number of devs for this and that, work has to be allocated and......since is almost ALL volunteer, if the person is not really, as in really, interested in the particular thing to do....it can get put on the back burner.

and doing artwork is a HYBRID skill,
a) one has to have a "sense" of the "art".
b) one has to have a sense of what the community "wants".........."whoever" the community "is".
c) one has to be able to "code" the stuff into the jillions of lines which make a thing a thing that we see on the screen.

There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference between "making appearance" and "making a wireless driver". One requires an associated sense of art and the other requires methodical technical skills.

So............yeah...........I don't particularly like the flat metro appearance either... but I'm using it, and hopefully someone will give us some nice shiney bling...

The last time I did it was a) for buttons on a webpage and one b) "skin" for the old Lycos media player, which says something about how OLD I am!! lol

I would GENTLY suggest that GENTLE posts be made at KDE look or just KDE forum as to a desire for a certain "look" possibly do a poll.

Just a thought... of little worth.

woodlikesblingsmoke

**GreyGeek** · May 16, 2016, 12:38 PM

Interesting video, Woodsmoke!
I got lost in all the "inverting". I think I would stick to programming, if I were still programming!

**elijathegold** · May 16, 2016, 03:18 PM

Has anybody tried Trinity? It's to KDE3 what Mate is to Gnome2 but without the publicity. The screen shots make me fail quite nostalgic

And they have a ppa. I'm kind of tempted.

**claydoh** · May 16, 2016, 03:35 PM

Note that though the term ppa is used in the repo name, it is not really a PPA, as it is not from any ubuntu servers, so take that into consideration when using it. (ie (ppa-purge and add-apt-repository commands may not work) They have been around for a while, though.

**elijathegold** · May 16, 2016, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by claydoh View Post

Note that though the term ppa is used in the repo name, it is not really a PPA, as it is not from any ubuntu servers, so take that into consideration when using it. (ie (ppa-purge and add-apt-repository commands may not work) They have been around for a while, though.

So a ppa has to be on Ubuntu servers? I didn't know that.

I'm thinking of spinning up a minimal ubuntu VM and installing it on it, just for fun though.

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If Linux is to open to customization, why can't I choose what to upgrade?

If Linux is to open to customization, why can't I choose what to upgrade?

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