Kubuntu should be discontinued?

[jem]

After all my problems with my upgrade from 10.4 to 10.10 (see a separate thread), a question came to my mind: what is the purpose of Kubuntu? Obviously Kubuntu does not receive the amount of care it need to be a good distro. Kubuntu has always been the little stepbrother of Ubuntu. Ubuntu has received a lot of polish in recent years, but none of this polish seems to spill over to Kubuntu.

I realize a lot of effort probably has gone into building Kubuntu, but it still falls short. My suggestion is to direct all that energy on some other distro whose "Mother ship" takes a less indifferent position towards KDE than Canonical does.

*** Maybe it is time to call it quits, and discontinue Kubuntu? ***

By putting out mediocre Kubuntu releases (compared to the high class Ubuntu releases) you are giving KDE a bad name, you are giving Linux a bad name and possibly even giving Ubuntu a bad name by confusing the market with multiple parallel Ubuntu versions.

To the person making the decision that it is appropriate to change the standard KDE environment to the Netbook Edition during a one-step upgrade: you obviously have no respect whatsoever for the time and effort required to clean up your mess. You could at least have asked or even warned what was going to happen during the upgrade, but no: you know what's best for everybody and that includes turning the user interface upside down.

Goodbye Kubuntu! Many years and a lot of versions have gone by, but now this machine is migrating to Gentoo like my two other PCs.

[GreyGeek]

My, we seem to be having a flock of low posters coming to this forum to whine, moan and complain about Kubuntu. There's the door ... here's your hat .... what's your hurry?

[Snowhog]

*** Maybe it is time to call it quits, and discontinue Kubuntu? ***



In your dreams!



Goodbye Kubuntu! Many years and a lot of versions have gone by, but now this machine is migrating to Gentoo like my two other PCs.


Linux has always been about 'choice.' You don't like the direction that Kubuntu has/is going, no problem. There is no single Linux distro that satisfies everyone.

It is your opinion that Kubuntu is "putting out mediocre Kubuntu releases", and that is an opinion not shared by a very large and satisfied Kubuntu user base.

I've been a Kubuntu user since 2007. I started with Edgy Eft and KDE 3.x. I've gone through every new release, their upgrades, KDE and it's upgrades, and am currently running 'happily' on Kubuntu 10.10 with KDE 4.5.4, on a laptop, with everything working.

Kubuntu is a solid Linux OS. It is, and continues, to mature with each new release. And last but by no means least, Kubuntu is a 'bleading edge' Linux distro. The developers are constantly 'pushing the envelope' - leading the pack; going where others fear (or won't/refuse) to go.

If one is going to express an opinion, it should be clearly identified as such.

[dibl]

Heh heh heh -- that "FULL UPGRADE" button is such a tempting little devil, isn't it? ;D

It's only after the carnage and destruction that it becomes obvious one should just leave it alone. ;D

[oshunluvr]

No kidding GG. There must be 10 or 12 newish threads that include the line "This should just work out of the box..." or something similar.

It would be nice if a magic genie would swoop down and make a free operating system that works on every computer, every configuration, with every piece of hardware (even if the manufacturers deliberately keep the details required for a driver secret), and last but not least: read the minds of each individual owner so that the configuration would be exactly perfect every time.

I hope the sarcasm wasn't too subtle.

Personally, I'm a little tired of the whole generation of entitlement that seems to be prevalent in the younger generation(s). Whatever happened to "You get what you pay for." and the understanding that you get only what you are willing to work for?

I guess I'm just old fashioned - I expect to get what I deserve and expect to work to get what I want.

Rant over...

[Snowhog]

Heh heh heh -- that "FULL UPGRADE" button is such a tempting little devil, isn't it? ;D


In the earlier days; Edgy, Fiesty, and maybe Gutsy; I used (at least once) that option. But I never do now. Never. I follow the advice that gets posted on doing a release upgrade from the console. I've never had a problem by "reading twice; executing once." ;D

[Linkmaster]

Jeez. I happened to glance at this post, and I want to put my two cents in:

I have never optionally used a Linux OS. My school forced us to use SuSe Linux, which was a locked down version that had no fun in it. So, my first impression of Linux was bad. But I decided to give it a chance, and I used Ubuntu after I was happily installed with XP. I tried the Ubuntu, and was unhappy with it. At this point, I was starting to get a real unhappy feeling for Linux, when I heard about this "Kubuntu." I have tried it, and absolutely love it. I agree with the people above. There is no Linux for everybody. I dislike SuSe AND Ubuntu, yet love Kubuntu 10.10. Strange, isn't it? How there is such thing as OPINION? I've had problems with it yes, but thats because I'm simply a new user. Just because you don't like something, or if your not willing to work with something, doesn't mean you need to post something nasty about it. I could say all sorts of nasty things that I've heard about your Gentoo, but, I'm not going to. And have you heard any of these other people say anything degrading about your version? I say no, because they understand OPINION. Thank you, and thats my two cents.

Actually, last note. To those who help and support Kubuntu. I thank you. You guys are amazing.

[Vistaus]

@Snowhog: I wouldn't call Kubuntu "bleeding edge". You're right that they're constantly pushing the envelope and go where other fear, but "bleeding edge" is something different; that is more like Arch for example.

To the TS: It's right that Kubuntu could get some more love from Canonical, but I don't want it discontinued. It's KDE with the simpleness (for example PPA's) of Ubuntu. And everything works rock solid here, and I even have the 2.6.37-kernel and xorg-edgers installed and various other bleeding edge packages from Debian Packages.
Beat that.

[jem]

It would be nice if [...] read the minds of each individual owner so that the configuration would be exactly perfect every time.


Is it really asking too much if I upgrade Kubuntu with a standard KDE that it would not change the user interface to the Netbook Edition? What?

Seems to me that an attempt at too much mind reading has happened here: "Hmm... This guy's screen seems pretty small. And yet he's running the standard KDE. Tsk, tsk. Let's install the Netbook Edition instead, that will make his users happy when they can spend the whole day learning the new user interface instead of doing 'productive' work."

[Snowhog]

...spend the whole day learning the new user interface instead of doing 'productive' work."



If one takes just a little bit of time to learn about the OS they are using, and the changes that updates/upgrades bring to it, or at least just ask questions when something 'odd' or 'unexpected' happens after an update/upgrade, well...

A quick Google search finds:

How To Switch Between Desktop And Netbook Workspace In Kubuntu 10.10 (http://digitizor.com/2010/09/18/how-to-switch-between-desktop-and-netbook-workspace-in-kubuntu-10-10/)

This functionality (yes, that's what it is) was addressed and published by the developers.

[Ole Juul]

Is it really asking too much if . . .

Yes.

[oblivion]

It would be nice if [...] read the minds of each individual owner so that the configuration would be exactly perfect every time.


Is it really asking too much if I upgrade Kubuntu with a standard KDE that it would not change the user interface to the Netbook Edition? What?

Seems to me that an attempt at too much mind reading has happened here: "Hmm... This guy's screen seems pretty small. And yet he's running the standard KDE. Tsk, tsk. Let's install the Netbook Edition instead, that will make his users happy when they can spend the whole day learning the new user interface instead of doing 'productive' work."



Well, no. You are right. This might very well be a bug, because afaik Kubuntu automatically detects and (in this case, it seem that it also tries to set, without respecting the users preference) the workspace either to desktop or netbook. Both workspace come preinstalled with 10.10. Installer didn't installed something unexpected. This new autodetection feature is introduced with 10.10, it seems that there is a little problem. I suggest you to report this bug to launchpad immediately, so that the other users won't suffer the same in the future.


Probably your desktop is still there and you can switch from netbook to your old desktop workspace. Open KRunner (ALT+F2) and type "Workspace" + press Return. A window should open. Select Desktop instead of Netbook from the form factor. Logout and relogin.


P.S: I suggest you use KRunner to find what you want within KDE. It is easier and faster.

Regards.

[claydoh]

First and foremost Kubuntu is a COMMUNITY project, a fact that most seem to forget sometimes. Yes, Canonical provide the infrastructure (download servers, apt repos, launchpad, etc) and even pays for some developers now. But our OS was started as a community project. Canonical/Ubuntu have no say in how we do KDE, though obviously things such as drivers, kernels, and xorg are those used by Ubuntu.

Point is, no one can 'discontinue' Kubuntu except for us, really.

I am finding out that still, to this day, the most negativity towards Kubuntu/KDE has been over what I consider issues not as dire or drastic as the reporters are claiming. Look at a few of the most recent:

The Desktop/Netbook interface issue , though admittedly can be off-putting, is not even a difficult switch to make - and IS noted in the release notes.

KDE4 is not exactly the same in every single way as KDE3?

Attempting to log in to a social network at login? Probably annoying, but a Disaster?

Tooltips on the taskbar entries?? Really??

An upgrade process that DOES replace something added after the fact with the default IS annoying, but the upgrader DOES list what is being removed and asks for permission to proceed. And is an easy fix.

I am NOT saying these are not 100% valid issues, but if these things are dealbreakers, then there is NO OS that will satisfy. And imo, moving to something such as the well-regarded Arch or Gentoo usually means MORE tweaking and adjusting and learning.

I really think all these sorts of posts (here and anywhere else for that matter) are just a reminder of how narcissistic society is becoming. Which is at odds sometimes with the Community aspects of the F/OSS world.

but that is really a discussion for another place, and is not meant as criticism or insult.

[MoonRise]

Just because you don't like something, or if your not willing to work with something, doesn't mean you need to post something nasty about it.

Very well said. I also agree with those that said you must learn your OS and yes, that includes those like M$ with their newer ones. You have to learn them and let me tell you, even M$ upgrades do not go well on all machines, but we learn and figure out the issue and go on. That is for all OSs, not just Kubuntu.

[jglen490]

@jem --

Feeling beat up?

Next time just present the problem you see and ask for a solution. Unlearn your noobish ways.

[woodsmoke]

In another land, far far away, there were these bright eyed little kids walking across a bridge to a brighter land and from underneath the bridge they hears this .....

a) grunting
b) whining
c) babbling brook
d) whistle of a train on the tracks under the bridge
e) there is no bridge, and there is were no kids there was only a very, very, very, small, eeensy, teensy, soft thing that eventually disappeared and was last heard of when some lemmings decided to not jump off the edge of the world and instead gathered together and did an dance of ancient african origins while listening to the sounds of a Kettle Drum Enchanting the night.

wooddancingsmoke

(BTW if anyone thinks that the above is somewhat of a stretch, I agree. :) )

[Linkmaster]

I want to throw my two cents into this wonderful mess. I'm running a netbook, and installed Kubuntu onto my computer, and am extremely happy with it. Now, while I was tweaking things to my satisfaction[yes, it has the flexibility to tweaked]I noticed that I can change it to the DESKTOP view. Go to the system settings --> desktop settings. You'll see it in there somewhere. It gives you the option to switch from netbook to desktop. Felt like sharing that.

[GreyGeek]

I just switched my wife's Acer Aspire One 521 from the Netbook to the Desktop setting and set it up to look like her Acer Aspire 3000 laptop running Lucid. The AA1 64bit Maverick KDE 4.5.1 desktop now looks exactly like my Lucid KDE 4.5.3 desktop. Unfortunately, the AA1 has only 1GB of RAM, so I'll have to wait until the 2GB RAM chip comes from Amazon to see how much of an improvement it gives. I suspect/hope the additional RAM will double the speed.

In the Netbook setting the Maverick installation is reasonably fast. The Desktop setting runs about half as fast, at times, as the Netbook setting. For a comparison, with the bloat-ware removed, the Windows 7 Starter OS runs about twice as fast as the Maverick Netbook setting. I believe that this is because I installed Maverick using the WUBI so it is running from a file on the Windows NTFS system, NOT as a resident of the HD.

[Snowhog]

I believe that this is because I installed Maverick using the WUBI so it is running from a file on the Windows NTFS system, NOT as a resident of the HD.


I have zero experience with a wubi install, but understand that it is a huge file within Windows. When you opt to boot into Kubuntu from a wubi install, does the OS utilize the hardware, or does it virtualize it? Specifically, is Kubuntu using the phyiscal GPU? Do you have full desktop effects?

[GabrielYYZ]

not at all, Kubuntu should not be discontinued.

could it be improved? yeah, most things can be improved up to a certain point. is it being improved? from what I've read, yeah, both Kubuntu and KDE are.

i started with Ubuntu and i liked it, it's a great OS. i stopped using it because of the stupidest reason (nothing/no one will make use unity, ever) but I'm glad i switched, Kubuntu is a heck of a lot better for me in many ways.

[GreyGeek]

......
I have zero experience with a wubi install, but understand that it is a huge file within Windows. When you opt to boot into Kubuntu from a wubi install, does the OS utilize the hardware, or does it virtualize it? Specifically, is Kubuntu using the phyiscal GPU? Do you have full desktop effects?


I downloaded the 64bit Kubuntu desktop ISO and installed it on a USB stick as a LiveUSB. From it I took the wubi.exe file and copied it to the downloads directory in Win7. From Win 7 I downloaded the same ISO file into the downloads directory. I clicked on wubi.exe and chose to run it as the administrator. I selected 25GB as the install size. After about two or three minutes, at the most, I was told to reboot. I did. I was presented with Win 7's boot manager and setting in the second position was Kubuntu. I selected it and within a minute had the Netbook search & find desktop staring at me. It is not running virtual. Win 7 is NOT running. I have direct connections to the hardware. lsusb, lspci, lshw, etc... all give exactly what you think they should give. The audio worked fine but I could not record audio. Skype couldn't hear me but the webcamera worked fine. The video chip is accessed directly and the active desktop was checked as default, but the effects ran SLOW because 3D acceleration is not very affective. Stellarium gives me about 0.5 fps. :( Also, because the "HD" is a file residing on the ntfs formatted HD there appears to be a speed penalty involved. Thus, the Netbook DE runs about 1/2 as fast as the Win 7 desktop. When I switched to the KDE4 Desktop DE it ran about 1/3 as fast as the Win 7 DE. When I booted back into Win 7 and used the control panel to remove Kubuntu the erasure took all of 5 seconds. The boot manager didn't reappear and the AA1 went directly into Win 7.

I was going to try out the newly released alpha of Natty Narwhal but the wubi.exef for it doesn't recognize it and instead connects to the 10.10 torrent and installs it. I killed that operation without harm. I plan to wait till Natty's wubi works correctly so I can see what Wayland and Unity are like. IF my wife likes them that's what will stay on the AA1. Because the wubi is so easy to do and does not require the HD to be partitioned, I plan to stay with the wubi install and make it the default selection on the Windows boot manager. Even if it runs at 1/2 (assuming wayland and unity make no significant improvements) all my wife does is email and the occasional browsing. The AA1 is a small, light but powerful 64 bit computer with a 5 hr battery life that will fulfill her needs appropriately.

BTW, Microsoft has released an AV/AJ/FW product called "Microsoft Security Essentials", which is rated highly by those who use it. It is free and updates the DAT files regularly. It doesn't have any ads embedded and no nag screens. You'd think it was a FOSS project. :o I found out about it after I installed AVG_2011 and found it was now just another obnoxious AV product that doesn't entirely remove itself when you uninstall it. (The avgtray.exe remains behind to get in the way and nag.)

[sithlord48]

Thanks for the laugh ::)

<there was more but i decided to leave it out.>

[jpenguin]

Is this more flamebait?

[GreyGeek]

An update on my wife's AA1 install.

The 2GB RAM chip came and I installed it. With 2GB of RAM Ubuntu netbook is VERY fast. I installed, eventually Kubuntu-deskstop and switched to the KDE 4.4.2's DE. Very FAST. Suddenly, Stellarium went from offering less than 5 fps, to between 30-50fps. An extra GIG of RAM makes a world of difference. Kubuntu 10.04 is as fast as, if not faster, than Win7.

I solved the mic problem with Skype and it works very well. The external USB DVD/CDROM works nicely!

[woodsmoke]

Welllllllllllllllllll

If I can take a rather plain vanilla Kubuntu whatever install and do both a kernal upgrade AND an upgrade to 10.04 point whatever the number is upgrade AND

The system STILL WORKS........................... ;D ;D :D :D :)

then just maybe Kubuntu is not some "flash in the pan" distro...........

and besides that..............the FREE AND OPEN Koffice works Magnriffcisunntetely with it!!! 8)

as does Cairo Dock and all those kewl plasmoidy thingys like putting a folder on the desktop that represents the deskotp....

hmmmmm is that kind of like installing a recursive kernel on top of a non-recursive kernel that does not need to run the flag up the pole to salute it?

anyway....Kubuntu seems PRETTY ROBUST TO MOI!!! ;D

woodallintorobustnesssmoke

[sithlord48]

Is this more flamebait?

not intended at all as flamebait. i had a bunch of stuff i had typed as a responce to the discontinuing of kubuntu. but opted not to include it in the post bascily that, i don't think it should be discontinued and i can't get these few remaining kde3 people, i really think kde4 i s at this point on par with where kde3 was in just about all the features, although there are a few things that need to be updated. thats about all. (see no bait) it just a lot worder then that. so i just choped it all out..

[bitzbox]

*** Maybe it is time to call it quits, and discontinue Kubuntu? ***

You can call it quits if you like, it's your call but as for discontinuing Kubuntu, I think NOT!

Regards .....

[blackpaw]

Lose Kubuntu? god no - its the only apt based distro with a decent KDE install that's regularly updated that I know of.
Hell I'd have to switch to OpenSUSE and I *hate* RPM.

My advice if you're feeling burnt? stick with the LTS releases. I moved my wife from XP to Kubuntu 10.o4 and have firmly resisted the urge to tweak it - she's very happy with it, didn't have any problems running it at all. Her biggest complaint is the lack of sounds in the Yahtzee game.

For me - I'm running dual boot 10.10 + 4.6Beta / 11.04, but I like playing with the bleeding edge and expect breakage.

[x-shaney-x]

Long live Kubuntu I say!

I actually switched to kubuntu from ubuntu "proper" because THAT didn't feel release ready, let alone "high class".

I don't do release upgrades though, I prefer a clean install and think of it as spring cleaning and get rid of stuff I don't need anymore.

[Eric KDE]

Is it really asking too much if . . .

Yes.


This made me laugh so hard you have no Idea LOL! KUBUNTU is the BEST OS and people that don't like it can use ugly Gnome on a Pardus machine, (No offense to Pardus users...well a little bit) :)

[ardvark71]

Heh heh heh -- that "FULL UPGRADE" button is such a tempting little devil, isn't it? ;D

It's only after the carnage and destruction that it becomes obvious one should just leave it alone. ;D


Which is precisely what I do. ;)

Regards...

[Teunis]

Ah, discontinue Kubuntu...
In your original post I don't see a single reason why, of course Canonical has products with issues that can reflect on their core business but the KDE version of Ubuntu is in my opinion the least of their potential worries!
Yes I would like them to spend more on Kubuntu, as a matter of fact now KDE4 has matured to 4.5 I encourage them to ditch Gnome. :P

I was not exactly an early adopter of Linux when I got my hands on a CD with Red Hat Turbo Linux 4.1, and it was a few distributions later until I made it more or less work for everyday use. ::)
But I only became a full time Linux user after I discovered the KDE desktop, old headaches disappeared and a multitude of option became available. 8)

It was when I tried a permanent install of a Debian based Knoppix CD that I realised the potentialwer of apt-get and since the first issue of Kubuntu that's what I've stuck with.

KDE4.0 was a proper disaster but who cares, you don't have to upgrade!
I still run a partition with 8.04 with the last KDE3.5 but now I don't use it any more, I just log in once a moth to do the updates and realise it was actually pretty good.

These days my daily OS is the latest Kubuntu with the beta PPA's of many items (like KDE 4.6 rc1)and it just works!

Oh yes, KDE is also a beauty. ;D

[Pillage Idiot]

BTW, Microsoft has released an AV/AJ/FW product called "Microsoft Security Essentials", which is rated highly by those who use it. It is free and updates the DAT files regularly. It doesn't have any ads embedded and no nag screens. You'd think it was a FOSS project. :o


It is basically the client app of the forefront commercial suite. It was released as an apology for the last disaster AV suite that MS built.
They bought in outside help to develop forefront. Apparently if you connect a PC running security essentials to a network running forefront, it is recognised by the forefront server as the client and gets updated etc. Yes it is very good, it even cleans up those nasty fake AVs that no other AV and only one anti-malware product detects. And it is very unobtrusive.

Just found that desktop/netbook switcher, very cool.

[axel668]

??? What kind of attitude is this ? I'm too stupid to use it, so it should be discontinued ?!? Hell, if Kubuntu is beyond your skills go and buy a Mac but for God's sake spare us with comments like this !!

I've got my own history of disappointments with Kubuntu, but 10.10 rocks, especially with the KDE 4.6 update from the PPAs. Besides, no one who has got half a brain would seriously do the "full System Upgrade" thing - you install the new release to the other partition and then switch over when / if everything works (mind you, this is a good survival strategy for Windows, too).

[GreyGeek]

...but 10.10 rocks, especially with the KDE 4.6 update from the PPAs....


10.10 is just Ubuntu. It 's KDE 4.6 that makes it "rock"! 8)

[MoonRise]

...but 10.10 rocks, especially with the KDE 4.6 update from the PPAs....


10.10 is just Ubuntu. It 's KDE 4.6 that makes it "rock"! 8)


Ditto on that GG!! ;D

[vinnywright]

Besides, no one who has got half a brain would seriously do the "full System Upgrade" thing -


he he .....well I never claimed to have a brain at all ;D ..... and have hit that "full System Upgrade" (exept 10.10.....yet :) )button every release sense 8.10 and my system is a rock & rocks 8)

currently Kubuntu 10.04 KDE-4.5.3 kernel- 2.6.32-28-generic ...... ;)

VINNY

[quantum]

I say we discontinue the OP ;)