Compiz fusion

[capricorn]

I did read today that in the "Ubuntu" version of Gutsy GIbbons will have Compiz as default. :)

I did as well read that the release file of Kubuntu does not mention anywhere something like that. :-\

That, I suppose, means that there WON'T be a support for it "out of the box". >:(

Can someone confirm me this?

[disturbedite]

actually you are sort of wrong. a goal for gutsy is to have compiz fusion by default, its NOT a given. its been a goal of the last three *ubuntu releases! mark shuttleworth even said in a previous blog (i believe) that compiz or beryl (obviously compiz fusion now) wouldn't even be likely for the next (gutsy) *ubuntu release. its just been that a goal has been established (again)...

but i don't wanna be a party pooper, so lets just hope.

[Robin T Cox]

Why do we need Compiz fusion?

[capricorn]

Why do we need Compiz fusion?



For the cube.

I do know I am the only human being to be in love with the cube, but in my opinion it is the real breakthrough in OS interface of the last 10 years.

I try to make myself clear.

If you work with multiple desktops, you have this idea of 4 ( or more) different surfaces (like tables) each of whom contains a serie of informations.

Working with this concept is perfectly logic, seen that you cannot (using a flat screen) think of anything different of a surface as work place.

The cube breaks this limit without necessity of a new medium, creating a false 3D space that is absoultely understandable from the point of view of the concept and still retains separate working spaces.

I have still fate that we will have in the near future drivers for touchscreens for Linux and low priced touchscreens ( last time I checked the 15"" were around 300$) permitting me to move the right click of the mouse on the POWER key and use my hand as left button.

Now, imagine the cube in this context and you'll have the answer to why we need Compiz/Beryl...

... Sorry, I rephrase it...

Why I want Compiz ;)

[disturbedite]

yeah, i don't use multiple desktops, but the cube kicks ass for that function! as well as others.

[capricorn]

As a matter of fact, if the new use of Kwin for the visual effects that we have seen in the last month works as expected, there is no reason to not see a Kube ( :P ) as native app directly under KDE4.

The shiny and special effects could be written as a plugin for superkaramba ( who, if I'm correctly informed, should become a part of Plasma).

I'm really curios to see if the two systems can coexist, buit first of all we need Compiz fusion working natively under GG.

That for the simple reason that in October when KDE4 will be out, it will NOT be a part of Kubuntu and won't be there before the next stable release of Kubuntu itself ( which, if I'm not mistaken, should be in february 2008)

[caryb]

As a IT Manager I give a lot of talks with computer demonstrations I love the reaction when you flick through desktops via the cube & see there faces! I get asked how do you find Vista >:( My response is I wouldn't use it if my life depended on it 8) I have made a few converts just from demo's of Kubuntu in the guise of doing a presentation ;D


Cary

[disturbedite]

keep up the evangelism carby.

[Bongo5HH]

So the question I have to ask.. and it's really been on my mind since I started playing with Linux..

Who needs 4 desktops? Do you leave things running on each of them??? That seems like a serious system resource waste to me.

I can almost see how having different desktops with different shortcuts on them might help workflow for doing completely different tasks..

But basically when I'm doing Audio I have audio stuff open.. when I'm doing text editing I have that software open.

I just can't see the value of having 4 desktops.. let alone 4 desktops that spin around on a cube in front of you.. hey looks cool.. sounds cool.. but it's kinda like the silver plastic light lenses you can by for your Dodge Neon at Walmart....

Kev

[Bongo5HH]

I should note this though - the user interface enhancements like making the GUI operate more like something that we would experience in the "real world" is great and really does help the user.

For that reason, I'm interested in Comp... but from what I see about KDE4 that's already going to be well advanced.

Kev

[dibl]

Who needs 4 desktops? Do you leave things running on each of them??? That seems like a serious system resource waste to me.


OK, I'll voice respectful disagreement, Kev, to your points, in reverse order:

1. "Waste" -- let's see, the disk is spinning, the CPU and RAM are ticking along, and the monitor is glowing, whether it is one desktop or four. What exactly is it that you are concerned about wasting?

2. "things running" -- YES, VMWare Player 1280x1024 window on one desktop (with a Windows app running in it), Firefox browser on another, a half-done Open Office document on the third, and Amarok on the fourth (where I can see it). Why not?

3. "who needs four desktops?" Hmmmm -- that's actually a very deep question. In former times, perhaps it would have been phrased as "who needs to go 75 mph in an automobile when a train is perfectly serviceable at 40 mph?". Just because the capability to run four desktops had not yet been embedded into some "requirement", doesn't mean that it isn't wanted, appreciated, and enjoyed. Perhaps in the future, it will become "required", if it isn't today.

;D

[Snowhog]

Or, forbid, from a Windoze perspective: Think just how cluttered the task bar gets when you have LOTS of applications loaded but minimized. It gets very hard to locate, let remember, what you have running. Multiple desktops, whether on 'the cube' on available from the KDE panel, makes it possible to more efficiently organize running processes.

[caryb]

I always use multiple desktops why? because I can! I love having multiple desktops when giving demonstrations it makes it easy to flip between apps 8)

[Bongo5HH]

Who needs 4 desktops? Do you leave things running on each of them??? That seems like a serious system resource waste to me.


OK, I'll voice respectful disagreement, Kev, to your points, in reverse order:

I will respond as respectfully ;)


1. "Waste" -- let's see, the disk is spinning, the CPU and RAM are ticking along, and the monitor is glowing, whether it is one desktop or four. What exactly is it that you are concerned about wasting?

I will direct you to the question that you quoted from me "system resources".




2. "things running" -- YES, VMWare Player 1280x1024 window on one desktop (with a Windows app running in it), Firefox browser on another, a half-done Open Office document on the third, and Amarok on the fourth (where I can see it). Why not?

I'm not talking about why not, I'm asking why? Of what help it could be? Not sure why if you have 4 apps running you need them on 4 desktops? Is it any easier to remember which desktop they are running on than it is to remember which icon means Firefox and which means Amarok?



3. "who needs four desktops?" Hmmmm -- that's actually a very deep question. In former times, perhaps it would have been phrased as "who needs to go 75 mph in an automobile when a train is perfectly serviceable at 40 mph?". Just because the capability to run four desktops had not yet been embedded into some "requirement", doesn't mean that it isn't wanted, appreciated, and enjoyed. Perhaps in the future, it will become "required", if it isn't today.

Have you heard of Strawman arguments? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I never said it wasn't wanted appreciated and enjoyed.. I'm interested what the need is. YOU MAY BE SURPRISED MR LINUX but maybe people ask questions to get answers instead of being insulted? I know that's a foreign concept on a Linux forum because you know everyone who doesn't know every detail about Linux must be a MS LOVER or just stupid.

Maybe, I know it's a stretch.. but MAYBE if there was a valid reason and you gave it to me that might actually help me!! and then MAYBE I might actually have a better experience with the OS and then MAYBE I might tell someone about it and they MIGHT have a better experience too? OH sheesh why bother with that stuff it's more fun to be snotty isn't it?



;D

:^'

[Bongo5HH]

I always use multiple desktops why? because I can! I love having multiple desktops when giving demonstrations it makes it easy to flip between apps 8)


Thanks for a decent reply Caryb

[capricorn]

I'm not talking about why not, I'm asking why? Of what help it could be? Not sure why if you have 4 apps running you need them on 4 desktops? Is it any easier to remember which desktop they are running on than it is to remember which icon means Firefox and which means Amarok?


And here is another shiny aspect of the cube.

If you play with the settings a bit ( just a really triffly bit, I assure you) you can make the following enhancements:

- Semitransparent when moved

- Zoom-out when moved

- Deactivate Top and bottom image

Meaning, that no matter how many apps you have opened on the four sides, it suffice to click on the cube, slide it slightly so that it presents a cornerside and trough the transparencies you'll be able to see ALL the apps in one look and locate them on your desktop. ;D

As a matter of fact it is like if you did work on four different tables and took a step back to look at the total of the job.

And before someone chips in, No, Exposé does not do the same, exposé shows you all the applications open at the time and you chose which to open, but it does not locate it on the different desktop. it focuses on it ;)

[Bongo5HH]

LOL Capricorn!

[Ant2ne]

Once you use the multiple desktops regularly you get to be more efficient and productive with it. Beryl does slow down my system sometimes. If I'm running games and have the transparency turned up and have multiple apps open. But in these situations, I can just turn beryl off. That is the beauty of it. Switching win managers back to k is as easy as 2 clicks.

Beryl is one of those eye candy WOW devices that "sell" a lot of (k)ubuntu OS disks. I think once it is standard and easy to install there will be a mass exodus of eye-candy hungry WINers.

So, is Compiz Fusion any harder to install than Beryl? Like, If a guy got beryl to run would compiz run too?

[Bongo5HH]

I tried to get Beryl to run and I just can't seem to get it too lol. I've tried a few of the guides with no success. Mostly they seem to tell me how to install the thing. Not how to get it to actually run.

I have Beryl installed but I have yet to see it do anything.. I've tried running manager and a few of the other parts of it but well.. my desktop is still KWin. I guess if I could get it to run I might see more value in it eh?

LOL

Kev

[dibl]

Kev, does glxgears run on your system? What frame rate does it report? If you can get glx working, then you can usually get Beryl to work. Beryl looks for glx when you first run it, and if it doesn't find it, then you're toast. :)

[3vi1]

I have Beryl installed but I have yet to see it do anything.. I've tried running manager and a few of the other parts of it but well.. my desktop is still KWin.


What exactly happens when you right-click the manager in your system tray and select Beryl as your Window Manager?

[Bongo5HH]

I loose all my window decorations right now. Everything looks the same but I have no frames on my windows.

ideas?

Kev

[knedlyk]

Just use

kde-window-decorator --replace
If compiz runs bad, use

kwin --replace.

[Detonate]

I have been playing around with Gutsy on a different partition. Can't seem to make Compiz-fusion work yet. Beryl works great on the same machine in my Kubuntu Feisty install. But I'm not asking for assistance here, I have not messed around with the Gutsy install enough to even know what to ask yet.

But I do like Beryl, even though I don't use the "cube" much. I like to be able to just move my mouse pointer to the top right corner and have all my open apps pop up on the same screen, then merely pick the one I want to use. I also like the zoom feature, Super Key >Mouse wheel to zoom a image or very small text.

[Bongo5HH]

Just use

kde-window-decorator --replace
If compiz runs bad, use

kwin --replace.




What do these commands do?

If there is an issue with Beryl or Compiz-Fusion will these cause the same problem in KWin? 'cause that wouldn't be good at all. :)

[Bongo5HH]

Also, Compiz seems to think I have a "generic video card" I have a GF6200 and I'm wondering how I can get it to detect it. Yes I have 3D working I play a few games with it.

Thanks!
Kev

[knedlyk]

What do these commands do?

If there is an issue with Beryl or Compiz-Fusion will these cause the same problem in KWin? 'cause that wouldn't be good at all. :)


It is common issue.
kde-window-manager --replace replace windows manager for compiz. This command must run automatically after compiz started. But if it crashes, your window borders disappear. In this case you can try to run it m manually, or return to kwin (
kwin --replace). That's it.

[mcrofutt]

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I read this earlier this evening and it seems to fit here. Not everyone likes or needs every part of ANYTHING, except maybe air and water, yet it's there for those that DO want it. :) And that's what makes the world go 'round. You BOTH make valid points. Let's just agree to be different and enjoy our choices.
Mark